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  • #46
    Whistler- AAAAAHHHHH Yes, and in typical fashion with people like you, you avoid a direct question I asked you at the end of my post...........that's ok, I kinda expected it!!

    What the hell I'll ask again........ In your opinion, do you believe Arnold will order massive illegal immigrant round ups and house-to-house raids? If so, when do you think? If not, what will be done??


    "First of all if you feel we are b!tching and moaning, then my friend so ARE YOU!!!"

    Nah. I'm trying to find a logical solution. (And having a little fun as well!)
    People like you just want to complain all day long................

    "The point to all of the above is that the vote of people make the government and the greatest example is the recall election in California."

    Again, what good is that if they keep electing people who do nothing in this regard???


    "That they do have the right and the choice to boot out the government they don't like."

    The governor was replaced, not the entire legislature.............again, it means nothing if they replace him with somebody who is no better!!

    "From your comment it looks like you don't think a whole lot of and have no trust in the government."

    Our government is the best in the world, period. But, that doesn't mean it is infallible either. I hope you aren't naive enough to believe that everything with our system is ok. It isn't. There are many injustices in American society.

    Special interest groups buying politicians, campaign financing, these types of things really bother me........I don't know about you.

    Do I think a whole lot of the government and do I trust them you ask???

    Actions speak louder than words. I go by what they do, not what they say they'll do. Hey, the proof is in the pudding. No president or governor of CA has done anything real definitive about immigration (and other topics for that matter). I don't have "blind faith" in our government. Keep in mind they work for ME and YOU, which means they must prove to ME and YOU they are worthy of their respective position. Davis didn't do it, and Arnold has made some promises, but we'll have to wait and see.........

    Comment


    • #47
      Whistler- again you miss the point...



      "Legalizing all illegal aliens will not be an encouragemant???"

      No.

      "Think again- won't that be like you can enter US legally and then overstay but not to worry eventually you will become legal. GHEEWEEZ!!"

      I'm afraid you don't know how 245(i) worked before. In order to adjust your status here, a person had to prove they established a bona fide marriage and/or have been employed prior to a certain date. That means any FUTURE illegal immigrants WOULD NOT be able to adjust their status here, because they wouldn't be able to prove that relationship existed prior to the legislation being passed.........Thus, with a strong border and legalization, things would begin to improve.

      As far as visa overstayers, that all hinges on an efficient BCIS. Their ability to track down overstayers is vital in dealing with them...........

      "I have given you a logical solution. We need to change our immigration laws-"

      What kind of solution is that?? How so?? Be specific. You sound like a politician!!


      "...but we also need to address the problem at hand, what are we going to do with all illegal aliens here."

      I already told you.

      "I certainly don't think that by legalizing all of them would be the solution, the INS should REVIEW the cases and act accordingly, which means that they could give legal status to some and also deport others."

      Review what cases?? Illegal immigrants aren't allowed to file any AOS papers............

      "This might take sometime but hey we need to start somewhere."

      Do you agree then with 245(i)?? Sounds like it. If you mean allowing illegal immigrants to adjust their status here, and then the BCIS taking a look at their files on a case-by-case basis, then that is what I propose as well!!

      "Stronger immigration laws/borders will help us in the furture so will putting a cap on all types of visas issued in a year!!!"

      That is what I propose as well!! I guess we agree then right!!!???

      Comment


      • #48
        SKS

        Lets not try to be so far fetched. Nobody has suggested about massive illegal immigrants roundups and house to house raids, nor is that likely to happen. What people have suggested is that when people are found with visa fraud/overstaying, again depending on cases they should be punished.

        "Nah. I'm trying to find a logical solution. (And having a little fun as well!)
        People like you just want to complain all day long................"
        Who the he!! is complaining. I am just not agreeing with your opinion.

        Regarding your comments on the government- I don't have blind faith in the government either.Maybe what we need to do is get signatures of voters against illegal aliens and force the government to take a tougher stand!

        "Our government is the best in the world, period. But, that doesn't mean it is infallible either. I hope you aren't naive enough to believe that everything with our system is ok. It isn't. There are many injustices in American society."

        Thats a whole different ball game. Maybe we should start a new topic "injustices in American society"

        Comment


        • #49
          whistler

          You will get nowhere with SKS, hypocrite to the T, I have shot him down repeatedly with the facts he will not accept, he just demeans our laws, our country, fact is they created the problems by crossing a known border, then blame this country for them doing it. no one on this board wants to explain this .
          http://americanpatrol.com/RECONQUIST...ico000118.html
          WHAT SOME "LATINOS" THINK OF THE UNITED STATES

          Comment


          • #50
            This hot off the press SKS, you say we can't do it, WATCH US.
            Plan would put cops on immigration beat
            By Sergio Bustos
            Gannett News Service

            WASHINGTON - The next time you get pulled over by a police officer you may be asked for your license, your registration and possibly your green card.

            Republicans in Congress are pushing a controversial proposal that would pressure local and state police departments to arrest undocumented immigrants.

            Rep. Charlie Norwood, R-Ga., introduced the so-called CLEAR Act - for Clear Law Enforcement for Criminal Alien Removal Act - in July. The measure has 102 co-sponsors.

            It's no surprise that immigration advocates abhor the legislation, but so do many police chiefs who question whether the measure would do more harm than good.

            Norwood's bill, which stands a better chance of passage in the House than in the Senate, would not require local law enforcement agencies to find undocumented immigrants. But those localities that refuse to cooperate in assisting federal immigration authorities could lose millions of dollars in federal funds.

            Police chiefs who oppose the measure said Norwood's proposal would alienate immigrant communities.

            "This bill would effectively turn our police officers into immigration agents," said Rick TerBorch, president of the state police chiefs association in California.

            Immigration advocates and civil rights groups argue that Norwood's bill would open the door to racial profiling.

            California is believed to have more undocumented immigrants - 2.2 million - than in any other state.

            Full story in tomorrow's El Paso Times

            Comment


            • #51
              Whistler- It was a simple yes or no question, which I guess you mean no then!!


              "Lets not try to be so far fetched."

              I know, I'm the one being far fetched. I'm not the one who said put them all on planes..........



              "Nobody has suggested about massive illegal immigrants roundups and house to house raids, nor is that likely to happen."

              Game, Set, Match...........ME!!

              Thank you for ceding that major point. After doing so, we are now left with the same question I've been asking a million times, what do we do with those already here then!!??



              "What people have suggested is that when people are found with visa fraud/overstaying, again depending on cases they should be punished."

              I don't disagree with that............


              "Regarding your comments on the government- I don't have blind faith in the government either.Maybe what we need to do is get signatures of voters against illegal aliens and force the government to take a tougher stand!"

              That has happened already with Prop. 187, at least it was voted on. Tell me, was it implemented??


              "Thats a whole different ball game."

              No it isn't. It has everything to do with many of the issues Americans face, including immigration.

              Again, if you don't think illegals will be rounded up, what do we do then??

              Comment


              • #52
                Whistler- you seem much more intelligent than to go along with acelaw. All he does is state the same garbage.

                "You will get nowhere with SKS, hypocrite to the T,"

                How so??


                "I have shot him down repeatedly with the facts he will not accept,"

                Even on your best day you couldn't!! I've exposed acelaw for the racist he is........


                "...he just demeans our laws, our country,"

                When did I do that?? Did you not read my other post when I stated this was the best country and our government is the best??

                See what I mean Whistler, acelaw is only here spew garbage....

                "....fact is they created the problems by crossing a known border, then blame this country for them doing it."

                Who blames this country for doing it?? I never did!!


                "WHAT SOME "LATINOS" THINK OF THE UNITED STATES"

                I'VE EXPLAINED THAT ONCE ALREADY ACELAW!!

                SEE WHAT I MEAN AGAIN WHISTLER.

                THAT MAY BE WHAT "SOME", I REPEAT "SOME" PEOPLE BELIEVE. WHAT FEW BAD APPLES SPOIL THE BUNCH!!?? DIDN'T YOU POST ANOTHER ARTICLE THAT STATED MOST LATINOS WERE GOOD PEOPLE?? NICE CONTRADICTION THERE BUDDY

                SILLY LOGIC. SO IF I FIND A RACIST, WHITE SUPREMIST WEBSITE, SHOULD I ASSUME ALL AMERICANS ARE WHITE NEO-NAZIS?? COME ON ACELAW, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE SMARTER THAN THAT!!

                Maybe not though!!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Acelaw-same old stuff huh?? That's ok, I didn't expect anything new..........how many times have we talked about the CLEAR Act already??

                  Anyway..........



                  "This hot off the press SKS, you say we can't do it,"

                  I never said we can't, we have the resources to, I'm saying we won't. And I've said before I could be wrong, but I doubt it.



                  "Norwood's bill, which stands a better chance of passage in the House than in the Senate,"

                  Uh-oh, could it be doomed already???

                  "would not require local law enforcement agencies to find undocumented immigrants."

                  Uh, ok, then what is the point????


                  "But those localities that refuse to cooperate in assisting federal immigration authorities could lose millions of dollars in federal funds."

                  How much of a police department's budget is federally funded?? Like the LAPD, I would like to know.......


                  "Police chiefs who oppose the measure said Norwood's proposal would alienate immigrant communities."

                  That's right. Read it again acelaw. I didn't say this, POLICE CHIEFS DID. Tell me what good is a law if police chiefs aren't going to tell their officers to enforce it??? Seems like it already is facing opposition and it hasn't even been signed into legislation, if it does.......................



                  ""This bill would effectively turn our police officers into immigration agents," said Rick TerBorch, president of the state police chiefs association in California."

                  This is coming from the President of the state police chiefs association. Yea, ok, like he is going to support this legislation.


                  "Immigration advocates and civil rights groups argue that Norwood's bill would open the door to racial profiling."

                  Exactly, tell me, what does an illegal immigrant look like??? Unless they violate a crime, how does one approach a person and ask them for an ID without probable cause??? The supreme court has ruled that just because somebody speaks another language and looks different, doesn't give an officer probable cause...........

                  Nice try though......

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    someone12- It's ok, vent, it's good for you..............let it all out...........maybe reality is too much for you to handle.


                    "All of your "responses" appear to favor illegals over Americans - and that is where I disagree."

                    Let me tell you an old saying, "Things always aren't as they appear."

                    How do I favor illegals over Americans??

                    "Paltry fines assessed against illegals will only act as an incentive for others to cheat the system."

                    Then don't make them paltry, make them substantial!!


                    "We need to establish and carry out firm, strict border control policies that will discourage illegals (in whatever form),"

                    Agreed.

                    "...close phony marriage loopholes (and others),"

                    Agreed.

                    "... administer bars to readmission or eligibility that are severe enough to motivate would-be transgressors to think twice before violating our laws and focus our collective attention on the protection of our borders & economy and citizens -period."

                    And when did I say I didn't want what you propose?? Could it be that we agree!!??

                    "Undoubtedly our country has been influenced and developed because of immigration, legal immigration however."

                    At least you recognize that!


                    "Those who scam their way here are far less likely to adopt our culture and ways of doing business."

                    Not necessarily. Then why are there illegal immigrant children in our schools?? They wouldn't be there if they didn't want to learn, and doing so means they are learning OUR culture and language. At least in the history classes I've taught, I taught AMERICAN history. (Not counting 10th grade world history though!)


                    "After all,if they see that they could lie, cheat or scam their way here and not suffer a penality,"

                    That is were the fines come in!!



                    "... in order to take advantage of an already strongly-running economy, what would motivate these same individuals to comply with other laws and social norms? Very little."

                    Are you telling me that if the Driver's License bill stays in effect, we won't see MANY immigrants applying?? No, we will see many applying because they want to be able to drive legally...........

                    With that logic, that means the vast majority of illegal immigrants go around violating every law they please. They don't. There are some bad apples, but the MAJORITY of immigrants comply with the laws here.....

                    Contrary to popular opinion, it is no fun being illegal, I know they are to blame for that status (SEE here acelaw I'm not blaming OUR government), but, nevertheless, it is still no fun!

                    "Of course, if we eliminate the job opportunities for illegals, we could see wages in various industries rise, since the supply of labor would drop, employers would have to pay more to encourage applicants to work."

                    In theory I somewhat agree. In reality, I'm a little more pessimistic. Employers have always been, and will continue to be, striving for that profit. The bottom line is what it is about, not what is best for the country, according to the AMERICAN businesses that violate our laws. Remember the Tyson foods deal??

                    "Oh yes, now we will hear how these raises will cause prices to skyrocket - (time for a Smiley-face about now)....but if fairer, competitive wages were paid to, let's say apple pickers - the cost of apples would go from roughly $1 per lb to $1.10 --big deal."

                    How do you figure that??

                    What exactly does "fairer" and "competetive" mean?? The work in the fields is very strenuous, what, $15-25$ per hour??

                    "A room at an average motel would increase by about 5%. My oh my."

                    How do you get that stat??

                    "Has anyone noticed that running shoes, most of which are made overseas (often in factories where workers toil in unbelievable conditions) all cost the same?"

                    Why? Because they can get away with it, and the AMERICAN people will buy it anyway...........

                    What are so-called AMERICAN businesses doing overseas anyways?? What duty do they have to AMERICANS in providing jobs for us?

                    Ba$tards.

                    "But New Balance shoes, mostly made in America, also cost the same. Who is getting these profits in the other compnaies?"

                    The companies!!

                    "The point is we have 9M Americans out of work."

                    Blame those AMERICAN BUSINESSES that go overseas and exploit other people. They are to blame for the example you mention.........


                    "Now, if we send the illegals home (to whatever country they came from) we would have 9M job openings.."

                    Pie in the sky!!


                    "...and under pressure from our laws in regards to workers' rights, employers would be forcede to pay higher wages, thus attracting more of these unemployed folks to the now open opportunity."

                    Nah. There are plenty of job opportunities for those unemployed. Financial aid is available to almost all people if they want to learn new skills..................if they desire.......


                    "BUt SKS would rather dole out the manna to those who have done nothing to earn it except defy our laws and whine about the 'unfairness' of their situation."

                    What is "manna"?

                    Anyway, there are plenty of jobs for those willing.............

                    Fast food restaurants are always hiring. What, do not want to work there?? WHY? Pride?? I know, let the immigrants have those right?? Well, that is how it works......

                    "Well SKS, the American people as a group do not share your views."

                    I don't get it, I've agreed with some of what you say. So, if you're saying the Americans agree with you and not me, then they also agree with me as well!!


                    "Maybe you should try standing on a soap box on the street corner and tout your position - see how much support you get and from whom."

                    Lets see, if I stand on the street corner and demand our government have a strong border and stricter laws...................I'm positive I'd get a large support of AMERICAN people, not immigrants.

                    The immigrants would also be in favor of my legalization.

                    Nice try though. I agree with a strong border, so that means Americans agree with me somewhat, right?? Not everything is black and white, we must face reality for what it is...


                    "America is a great country and we as its citizens are also its guardians - and we have a responsibility to each other to protect and preserve this nation from any kind of harm - war, disease or economic health - and that is what I work on each and every day and will continue to do, both in my job and through my representatives."

                    God Bless America!! Are you also on another chat room protesting against American companies moving out of the US?? There are many other things going on in the country that are just as, if not more important, than immigration......

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      someone12- We need some sort of solution........Status quo won't cut it for me. Legalization is the only viable solution......

                      "Paltry fines are not much, if any, of a deterrent."

                      Again, the fines aren't supposed to be a deterrent, they're supposed to be punishment for those already here.........

                      The deterrent comes with a stronger border..........


                      "What needs to happen is to dry up employment 'opportunities' for illegals,"

                      Yes that would help greatly. By stating this you DO realize that illegals come here for jobs, and not to "get on welfare." Unlike acelaw, you're intelligent enough to understand that if jobs are tough to come buy for illegals, we will see a change in the amount that enter.

                      This is also my whole point behind Prop. 187. You can deny them services all you want, but they'll stay because people will still employ them...............So, Prop. 187 isn't going to get rid of the issue, only make things worse.

                      Yet, ufortunately, that is wishful thinking. AMERICAN businesses will continue to hire illegals to keep labor costs down and profits up....................not saying it is ok, just that it is the way of the world. I honestly don't see that changing in the near future, in my opinion....


                      "....sned those home who are in violation of their status for a cooling off period."

                      How?? In order to do that we would need to round them up first, and that isn't going to happen.........

                      "Monetary penalties do not have any real effect - they are either too low or, if we charged some outrageous sum like $100,000, no one could pay."

                      No, but punishment is punishment. It all centers around the fact that they are here to stay......................

                      "Thus, we need an alternative"

                      What??

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        someone12-

                        "for about the 100th time, I already suggested sending 'em home - period."

                        Ok, if that is the best you can do, ok.

                        Hate to break it to you though but it isn't.........well you just wait for that to happen ok??

                        Then the people in hell will get water!!



                        "Other solutions will only aggravate the problem, just like the amnesty in the 80's."

                        Nah. First, I'm not advocating amnesty. Second, the reason why the amnesty in the 80's "didn't work" is because there was not a program to strengthen the border efficiently. So, of course we won't see a differenc........

                        Yet, with what I propose, a legalization program AND a stronger border, it will definitely NOT aggravate anything, because more people will not be able to come in. (At least not on any large scale.)

                        I know, I know, wishful thinking


                        "It didn't fix anything and neither will another one."

                        That is why I'm not advocating amnesty!!

                        It will if we do something like I propose........

                        "Monetary fines are not really punishment in this case because they do not act as a deterrent to others-"

                        For the 100th time, it's not meant as a deterrent in this case. How can you deter something that has already occurred??? It is meant to punish those here..........in the most viable way we can.

                        To deter, make the border stronger..........

                        "The stakes need to be raised high enough to provide a disincentive to those who are chomping at the bit to join the scammers."

                        Again with a stonger border people can try to get in all they want, but won't be able to...

                        As far as visa overstayers go, there needs to be an efficient BCIS to track them down.........I know I know, wishful thinking.

                        We'll see what happens then..............

                        Comment

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