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G A Y MARRIAGE: BUSH'S ATTEMPT TO CODIFY HIS RELIGIOUS CONVICTIONS SHOULD OFFEND EVERY AMERICAN WHO BELIEVES IN THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. CIVIL MARRIAGE IS NOT A RELIGIOUS SACRAMENT, AND AMERICAN CITIZENS MUST LEARN TO RECOGNIZE THE DIFFER

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  • #31
    Amen Susanne!

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    • #32
      Shame on the hypocrite America!

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      • #33
        Dream on, Susan! *** marriages will and should never be legal no matter how big propaganda is... you cannot simply keep brainwashing people...
        Each and everyone has the right to do whatever he or she pleases in the privacy of their own homes with whoever they choose, but to claim special set of rights based just on who you sleep with is OFFENDIVE at least.
        Homosexuals BECAME homosexuals, they were not BORN predestined to be that.
        Finaly, civil marriage derived from a religious sacrament. A man and a woman, and let's keep it that way.

        Comment


        • #34
          Blueeyes - how is wanting to be treated the same as everyone else, especially if you agree that everyone has the right to do as they (goshdarn) well please in the privacy of their home, asking for a "special set of rights..."???

          Also, marriage throughout history and across cultures is not always and only "derived from a religious sacrament." Do you think marriage is the sole invention of a biblical writer? Does that mean any Buddhists, atheists or anyone else who fit the man/woman criteria but don't have a Bible-based faith shouldn't be married either?

          Comment


          • #35
            Blueeyes,

            What is it with all the religious stuff...All g a y partners are asking for is equal rights. A civil union is basically what most people want, just federal recognition of the partnership, what may I ask is so bad about that? Let heterosexual couples keep this "marriage" just make sure the government provides some alternative for those excluded under that president...

            Are you *** blueyes? I don't ask this to be rude, but becuase you said that "homosexuals BECOME homosexuals, they are not BORN that way" How do you know?

            I am *** (and proud of it) and as far back as I can remember I have never been attracted to women, it's never been a choice, it was predetermined....People say being g a y is a choice, but I disagree, unless you are g a y you cannot understand, it's like you're attraction to a man/women, that's just the way it is, you don't choose that....it's predetermined, unless you are trying to hide you're true desires just to fit a social expectation....for people in that situation I feel great sorrow.....

            Comment


            • #36
              Not sure if I should throw my 2cents in, as this has obviously become a very heated argument. I consider myself very religious, and don't like homosexuality.

              That being said, homosexuals are just asking for equal rights, not any "special recognition" or anything. I say, let them be married, let them do whatever it is that they do in the privacy of their bedrooms, and come Judgement day, they answer for their actions. Who are we to be the judges? God also said in the Bible (I don't know the verse) "Judge not lest ye be judged."

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              • #37
                I don't understand why people keep on coupling religion with this issue.

                This is an issue of the law, and I thought that (by the constitution) there was supposed to be a seperation between religion and the laws of this land.......

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                • #38
                  On this thread:

                  "DoesItReallyMatter" = "Tibetian.Achilles" = "acelaw" = "blueeyes"

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Alabama jurist says he will again ask U.S. high court to intervene in divisive case
                    ________________________________________________

                    MONTGOMERY, Ala., Aug. 21 "” Rejecting a ruling by his fellow justices, Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore said Thursday that he would continue to defy a federal judge's order that a Ten Commandments monument be removed from the public area of the state judicial building while asking the U.S. Supreme Court to re-examine the divisive case. Meanwhile, Moore's supporters vowed to prevent workers from removing the monument, calling on all "Christian people who love God" to come to Montgomery and join their blockade. RUSHING BACK to the state capital from a family funeral, Moore said he was "very disappointed " by the order issued Thursday morning by the court's eight associate justices that the monument be moved out of the public viewing area of the court building. Moore vowed to continue his fight for what he called the "constitutional right to acknowledge God," saying he would petition the U.S. Supreme Court to review the federal judge's ruling that the 5,300-pound granite marker violated the U.S. Constitution's ban on government promotion of religion. "The people of this state elected me chief justice to uphold our constitution," he said on the steps of the building as supporters briefly stopped singing "We Shall Overcome" to allow him to speak. "... To do my duty, I must acknowledge God. That's what this case is about." He also accused U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson, who had ordered the monument to be removed, of placing himself "above the law and above God." Despite the order issued Thursday morning by the associate justices, the monument remained on view inside the building "” although only people with court business were allowed to enter "” and it remained unclear how the escalating dispute would play out.

                    'COMPLY ... AS SOON AS PRACTICABLE'
                    The associate justices' order instructed the building's manager to "take all steps necessary to comply [with the federal court order] ... as soon as practicable," Senior Associate Justice Gorman Houston said before Moore's news conference. Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor indicated that the court might try to avoid a confrontation with the protesters by moving the monument to a private room rather than taking it out of the building. But the protesters said they would block access to the building to prevent workers from bringing in tools necessary to move the monument. "We are committed to peacefully and prayerfully seeing that this monument is not taken out," said the Rev. Patrick Mahoney of the Washington-based Christian Defense Coalition. Mahoney also called for others who supported the public display of the commandments to join the three dozen or so protesters on the steps of the courthouse early Thursday. "We are calling for Christian people who love God ... to come to Montgomery, Alabama," Mahoney said. "As long as we are here, this monument is not coming out."

                    'BOUND BY SOLEMN OATH'
                    Thompson gave Moore until Thursday to comply with his ruling, threatening $5,000-a-day fines against the state if his deadline were ignored. Those fines could double after the first week. The U.S. Supreme Court rejected Moore's emergency plea for a stay late Wednesday afternoon, declining for the time being to be drawn into the dispute. In the seven-page order calling for the monument to be moved, which was issued about 10 a.m., the state court's associate justices wrote that they were "bound by solemn oath to follow the law, whether they agree or disagree with it." The Ten Commandments monument sits in the rotunda of Alabama's judical building in Montgomery. The monument was walled off from public view from 6:30 to 9:30 a.m. "” apparently on the order of the associate justices "” as Thompson's deadline passed for the marker to be out of public sight. A plywood partition was then removed without explanation.

                    Moore's spokesman, Tom Parker, said the chief justice was out of town for a family funeral but decided to return to Montgomery when he learned that the monument had been walled from public view. Ayesha Khan, an attorney for the plaintiffs fighting to get the monument removed, said the associate justices' decision "just shows what an extremist Roy Moore is, that all eight of the other justices are refusing to stand with him." Another of the plaintiffs' attorneys, Richard Cohen, said a motion was filed with Thompson asking that Moore be held in contempt. It was not clear whether the associate justices' action would make the motion moot. Thompson was not expected to take up the matter until Friday. Pryor, the state attorney general, said he filed notice with Thompson indicating that the monument would be moved under the associate justices' order and expressed hope that the action would dissuade the federal judge from imposing fines.

                    21 PROTESTERS ARRESTED
                    Moore's supporters have been on the steps of the building since Wednesday, singing and praying. Some who entered the rotunda and refused to leave voluntarily were removed in handcuffs. Twenty-one protesters were arrested and taken to the Montgomery County Jail, where they were charged with trespassing. Most were released on their own recognizance. Mahoney asked Wednesday night who was willing to lie down in front of the doors to keep the monument inside. Most raised their hands. Former Republican presidential candidate Alan Keyes then delivered a fiery speech, saying the efforts of courts and government to stifle religion must end. "This must end, or freedom will end with it," Keyes said. "No longer can we tolerate this crime that is being done against our movement for almighty God."

                    It remained unclear when or if the monument would be removed. Moore, who installed the monument in the rotunda of the judicial building two years ago in the middle of the night, has said he regards the commandments as a symbol of the Judeo-Christian foundation of U.S. law. The U.S. Supreme Court has never ruled on the constitutionality of such indoor and outdoor government displays. In 1980, it barred the Ten Commandments from classroom walls in public schools.



                    http://www.msnbc.com/news/954934.asp...20030410&cp1=1

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      This Judge was suspended today.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        LOL EPDR!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          What exactly does this have to do with this thread???

                          Is it the separation between religion and law I mentioned earlier?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Pedophile Ex-Priest Is Killed in Prison
                            _______________________________________

                            By ROBERT O'NEILL, Associated Press Writer

                            BOSTON - Former priest John Geoghan, the convicted child molester who died after apparently being strangled in prison, didn't deserve to be killed, some victims and their advocates say, but his death probably won't bring much comfort to survivors of clergy s.e.x abuse. Geoghan, who was at the center of the s.e.x abuse scandal that rocked the Catholic church, died Saturday after being attacked by a fellow inmate at the state prison in Shirley, Worcester District Attorney John J. Conte said. He was 68.

                            http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...168/521it.html

                            Geoghan died at 1:17 p.m., shortly after he was taken to a Leominster hospital; preliminary investigations indicated he was strangled, Conte said. An autopsy will be conducted Monday. Paul Baier, president of the victims' group Survivors First, said only the courts had the right to decide the fate of a criminal. "He wasn't convicted to death and if he was murdered in prison that was more than he was sentenced to," Baier said. "(But) I don't think this brings any more solace to his victims."

                            In civil lawsuits, more than 130 people have claimed Geoghan sexually abused them as children during his three decades as a priest at Boston-area parishes. He was convicted last year of indecent assault and battery in the first of three criminal cases brought against him. Prosecutors couldn't bring charges in other cases because the statute of limitations had expired. Mitchell Garabedian, an attorney for many Geoghan victims, said he was "surprised and shocked" by Geoghan's death. "Many of my clients would have rather seen Father Geoghan serve out his time in jail and endure the rigors of further criminal trials, so that his pedophile acts could have been exposed further," he said. Joseph L. Druce, 37, who received a life sentence in 1989 for murder, armed robbery and other counts, was placed in isolation and will face murder charges in Geoghan's death, Conte said. In 2001, Druce was charged with mailing a threatening letter containing white powder and indicating it was contaminated with anthrax.

                            Geoghan was being held in protective custody to shield him from the general prison population, but he still had some contact with other inmates in protective custody, Department of Correction spokeswoman Kelly Nantel said. Geoghan often targeted boys from broken homes, ingratiating himself during frequent visits or fun outings. One victim said Geoghan molested him as the two were driving home from getting an ice cream cone. Others said Geoghan molested them after visiting their rooms at bedtime to tuck them in, sometimes while whispering prayers. The church abuse scandal, which has had repercussions worldwide, broke in early 2002 with revelations that the Boston archdiocese had shuttled Geoghan from parish to parish despite warnings about his behavior.

                            The scandal mushroomed after a judge ordered the release of archdiocese files involving dozens of priests, showing repeated examples of the archdiocese shipping priests to different parishes when allegations arose. Soon dioceses and bishops across the country came under scrutiny for their handling of abuse allegations over the years, with the church tainted by scandal in many states. With the public outcry reaching a new crescendo, the bishops adopted a toughened policy against s.e.x abuse and more than 325 priests of the roughly 46,000 American clergy were either dismissed or resigned from their duties in the year after the Geoghan case.

                            A recent report by state Attorney General Thomas Reilly estimated that more than 1,000 children were abused by clergy in the Boston archdiocese in the last 60 years. The Boston archdiocese and lawyers for more than 540 alleged clergy s.e.x abuse victims are in the midst of negotiations to settle their cases. The archdiocese has offered $65 million, while victims have asked for between $90 to $120 million. David Clohessy, national director of the Chicago-based Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, said what made Geoghan's case more "than just a single case about a single predator" was that it revealed the corruption in the church. "In many respects, Geoghan is not the pivotal figure, it's the people who he wounded and still came forward and the bishops who enabled him but were finally exposed," he said.

                            The Rev. Christopher Coyne, a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Boston, offered prayers for Geoghan's family. "Upon hearing the news of the tragic death of John Geoghan, the Archdiocese of Boston offers prayer for the repose of John's soul, and extends its prayers in consolation to his beloved sister, Kathy, at this time of personal loss," he said. Geoghan was defrocked in 1998 at Cardinal Bernard Law's urging. Law stepped down as archbishop of the Boston Archdiocese in December, 11 months after the release of Geoghan's files. Geoghan was convicted in January 2002 for grabbing the buttocks of a 10-year-old boy in 1991. He was sentenced to nine to 10 years in prison. In September 2002, the archdiocese settled with 86 Geoghan victims for $10 million, after pulling out of an earlier settlement of about $30 million.

                            One of those victims, Ralph DelVecchio, said Geoghan deserved prison time but didn't deserve to be killed. "I wouldn't say he deserved to die, you know?" DelVecchio said. "He was in jail "” that's where I believed he should be." DelVecchio said he didn't wish ill on Geoghan. "It's over with," he said.


                            http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=519&ncid=716

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                            • #44
                              Why the news of this pedophile priest is popping up here? Was this priest g.a.y? No, he was a child molester. On the other hand, I am assuming everyone out there knows that most g.a.y.s are not child molesters just like most straight people too are not child molesters.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Here folks, as you can see this killing did have to do with homosexuals and it was PLANNED ... predictably, they're publishing this fact now ...

                                DA Says Suspect Planned Priest's Killing
                                ________________________________________

                                WORCESTER, Mass. - The inmate accused of strangling John Geoghan in his prison cell hated homosexuals and began plotting the attack on the child-molesting former priest weeks ago, a prosecutor said Monday. "He looked upon Father Geoghan as a prize," District Attorney John J. Conte said. "No question he had been planning it for well over a month." Joseph L. Druce, who is serving a life term for killing a g.a.y man 15 years ago, cut apart a book to make a perfect tool for jamming the door of Geoghan's cell and spent time stretching the socks used in the strangling, Conte said. Druce "has a long-standing phobia, it appears, toward homosexuals of any kind. ... He is filled with long-standing hate," Conte said as he provided new details into the death of the central figure in the Roman Catholic Church s.e.x scandal. Conte did not address why two inmates with such criminal histories were living in the same cell block at the maximum security Souza-Baranowski Correctional Center in Shirley. Conte said part of the investigation would try to determine how many cells should be opened at any one time on the protective-custody block.

                                Gov. Mitt Romney on Monday appointed a panel headed by state police Maj. Mark Delaney to conduct an independent investigation. Surveillance cameras filming the protective custody unit while the attack took place also are being reviewed. "Right now we are going to do a thorough review and re-evaluate all of our policies and procedures," state Public Safety Secretary Ed Flynn said. "We cannot escape the fact that an inmate died while in the care of the Department of Correction." Druce and Geoghan had just finished lunch in their cells and were let out to return their trays when Druce followed Geoghan into his cell about 11:52 a.m. Saturday, before the doors were locked again. In the upper track of the cell door, Druce jammed a book he had doctored to fit the slot, then put nail clippers and a tooth brush in the door's lower track to prevent guards from opening the door. He had precut the book to fit into the track, Conte said. He tied Geoghan's hands behind his back with a T-shirt, then used the stretched-out socks, a pillow case and one of Geoghan's shoes to strangle him, Conte said. Druce did not use a razor he had with him, but may have intended to castrate the former priest, Conte said.

                                Once he was alerted to the attack by an inmate, the guard on duty tried to get inside, but found the door was jammed. He called for help. By the time a nurse arrived to treat Geoghan, seven or eight minutes had passed, Conte said. Geoghan, 68, was taken to Leominster Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 1:17 p.m. An autopsy Monday showed that Geoghan died from strangulation and blunt chest trauma. He also had broken ribs and a punctured lung, Conte said. Conte has said Druce will be charged with murder once a grand jury is convened in September. Druce, who remains in isolation in the prison, has been cooperative with investigators, Conte said.

                                Geoghan allegedly molested nearly 150 boys over three decades and became a symbol of the clergy s.e.x abuse scandal that shook the foundations of the Catholic church. He was serving a nine- to 10-year sentence for assault and battery on a 10-year-old boy. He had been in protective custody since being transferred to Souza-Baranowski in April, officials said. Geoghan eventually was granted early retirement in 1996 and praised for an "effective life of ministry, sadly impaired by illness" by Cardinal Bernard Law, who ultimately resigned in December 2002 for his role in the scandal. With legal troubles mounting, Geoghan was defrocked in 1998, and in December 1999 charged with raping and molesting three boys. The archdiocese eventually settled with 86 Geoghan victims for $10 million.

                                Druce, 37, a reputed member of the neo-Nazi group Aryan Nation, was convicted in the June 1988 murder of George Rollo, 51, a g.a.y bus driver who had picked Druce up hitchhiking. Druce, who then went by his birth name, Darrin E. Smiledge, attacked Rollo, stuffed him in the trunk of Rollo's car, drove him to a wooded area and strangled him, according to court documents. Smiledge attacked the bus driver when Rollo made a sexual advance, the documents say. An insanity defense failed and Smiledge was sentenced to life in prison. Smiledge also pleaded guilty to sending fake anthrax from prison to lawyers with Jewish-sounding names and was sentenced to an additional 37 months in prison.

                                http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._abuse_geoghan

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