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  • #16
    SOMEONE12 I'M NOT SURE I SHOULD ENTER THIS DISCUSSION BUT I COULD NOT HELP IT. I THINK SOMEONE12 IS A LITTLE HARSH IN CRITICISM OF IMPROPERLY DOCUMENTED FOLKS. ESPECIALLY THOSE HARD WORKING ONES THAT MELANIE REFERS TO. SOMEONE12 AND MELANIE SHOULD READ POST BY CHUCK WHICH IS ON SAME PAGE AS MELANIE POST AND STARTS "SAMMY, FACEING DEPORTATION HEARING ........". SOMEONE12 DO YOU FEEL SAME ABOUT SOMEONE LIKE CHICA WHOSE WHOLE FAMILY HAS BEEN HARD WORKING AND A BIG ASSET TO THE COMMUNITY?

    Comment


    • #17
      someone12

      "they are not playing by the rules...they are breaking our laws....they scammed their way into the US....they need to leave and let those who are playing by the rules come here."

      Yada yada yada yada.........hope you like status quo!


      "Let them work hard in their own country. What is wrong with believing in OUR soveriegn nation? What is wrong with believing in OUR laws?"

      Nothing.....


      "Odd....our rules don't seem to be written that way."

      Why aren't they enforced correctly then??



      "Please provide a RATIONAL explanation as to why some people shouldd get away with ignoring and violating our laws while taking jobs away from Americans, depressing wages, racking up huge hospital bills, etc??????"

      The very question is flawed..........it is impossible to give a rational answer to an IRRATIONAL, idiotic question.

      First of all, nobody, at least not me, ever said anybody should get away with anything...Punish them by paying a fine.

      Second, the other part of your question is even more silly. Immigrants are not to blame for any supposed "job displacement." Can immigrants hire themselves??? Who is responsible for immigrants "taking away jobs"? No AMERICAN businesses hiring, no immigrants getting jobs. Simple. Put blame where it belongs. Immigrants can't get a job if nobody is hiring.

      "Depressing wages"? If no AMERICAN businesse hires them, no depression of wages!!! Put blame where it belongs....

      As far as medical bills, I agree that there are some financial concerns, which is why I advocate insurance.....


      "Remember now, a RATIONAL explanation..."

      To an irrational question?? Impossible..........but how about dealing with these simple facts: Those here, still here. More enter, overstay, and drive as we speak. Facts.

      Comment


      • #18
        Only USC can file for H1B. Illegal aliens however can open their own business at their own risk and some of them can hire USC.
        I know many illegal aliens runing businesses and some of them are even milioners but they work 24h a day and it is tough to get initial orders.
        You Someone12 would be able to run business as well I were not so stupid.

        Comment


        • #19
          Yeah right, like your dumb ranting will have any effect on US immigration legislation. If you had any power or influence you wouldn't be writing so many useless hateful messages to this site.

          Comment


          • #20
            Someone12

            "first, my request for a rational explanation was not asked of you - I know better than to expect little more than a bunch of pasted-up Smiley faces and continued dodging of the facts..."

            What facts?? The nonsense you post!!?? HAHAHA, some "facts". Here are some facts for you to dodge:

            Those here, lets see, yep, still here, have been here, and will always be here. MANY more have entered, continue to enter, and will enter and overstay in the future. More drive as well.. Facts that you must recognize.

            "...and yes, moron, immigrants can hire themselves....all they have to do is "open" some kind of business and file an H1b on their own behalf!!!!!"

            Explain to me how an illegal immigrant in the US can get an H-1B visa?? How, if they are out of status??

            What idiotic logic you have. SO, ACCORDING TO YOUR LOGIC, there is no "job displacement" because all of the illegal immigrants in the US are working in their own businesses!! There is no phantom "wage depression" either because illegal immigrants are just working for themselves!!!

            HAHAHAHAHA, talk about dodging a question! Tell me, who is responsible for illegal immigrants working in AMERICAN establishements???? Or, are you now conveniently saying there are none!!!??? I see right through your BS dear fellow............

            Nice try though.

            Comment


            • #21
              someone12

              "I have never said there is no job displacement...I said that illegals can (tho how is another matter)"

              If you don't know how, then how can you say it is an option??

              "..but I never said that all 10M illegals are doing this....why don't you read every word posted instead of extracting only what you want to paste those stupid Smiley-faces on?"

              Ask yourself that same question. Why do you not answer my question?? So, now we're getting somewhere......Then, for the millions working in AMERICAN establishments, did they hire themselves, or did AMERICAN businesses hire them?? Are you saying AMERICAN businesses have no control over who they hire?? Nah, they know the score. Thus, who is responsible for illegal immigrants getting hire by AMERICAN businesses??


              As far as your statement to Melanie, kinda jacked up...... what else is new though?

              And yep, those here, still here....don't see any feds doing checkpoints do you?
              More enter and drive as well....

              Comment


              • #22
                someone12-

                "you and I are both aware that illegals are working in many industries, including those often mentioned as jobs "no American wants..."

                Yes.

                "..however one reason (amongst many) as to why Americans supposedly don't want those jobs is the paltry salaries paid to the illegals. Yes I agree that business is at fault for knowingly (well, I guess WalMart didn't really know!!!! - sorry, don't buy that nonsense) hiring without proper checks...."

                I agree....moreover, I find it kinda of funny that most people blame the immigrants! The illegal immigrants aren't the ones making this hiring policy, and they sure as hell aren't forcing people to hire them. Yet, they are to blame for getting hired! Sounds like scapegoating to me......

                "..just look where they have been working - Air Force Academy, WalMart, airports, other janitorial positions in schools, and of course meat packing/hotels/restuarants, etc and agriculture. Without a doubt there is some kind of unspoken alliance between business and law enforcement..."

                Which is why nothing serious will ever get done to deport or get rid of them....

                Exactly, and that is what I have a problem with. Everybody is so quick to blame the immigrants for taking away jobs, yet the American businesses, more often than not, knowingly hire them. Thus, the BUSINESSES are to blame for any supposed job displacement. THE BUSINESSES are the ones doing the hiring, not the other way around...........blaming the immigrant for this is merely scapegoating.



                "..and yes, this causes an attraction to illegals to come here but it is not an excuse (in my opinion).."

                First, it is not an excuse but just a reason.

                Second, yes, at least you are intelligent enough to acknowledge that JOBS are the major reason why many want to come here. Prop. 187, denying services, denying licenses isn't going to do squat in terms of getting rid of anybody. Many living in other countries don't have those services anyway, so living here without them is nothing new....

                The fact of the matter is that the VAST majority of immigrants don't come here for those reasons, they only want to work.

                ".the US cannot absorb every illegal and potential illegal and relaxing our standards,"

                And we shouldn't........stronger borders and better oversight is a good start.

                "...whether via guest workers/amnesty or whatever will not fix the problem(s)."

                A legalization program AND a stronger border will definitely help. Give those here a chance to adjust while having a stronger border will help. Although many say this will "encourage" more to come, it might. But with a stronger border and better oversight, they won't be able to enter!!

                In any case, something needs to be done.......unless of course you like the status quo..

                [This message was edited by SKS on January 05, 2004 at 01:06 PM.]

                Comment


                • #23
                  someone12,

                  CAN YOU HONESTLY TELL US THAT YOU HAVE NEVER BORKEN ANY LAW IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE ?

                  HOW ABOUT THAT TRAFFIC TICKTET ? HOW ABOUT THAT DUI ? THINK BACK.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    AK

                    Doesn't an SKS fire the same round as an AK?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      In general, I'm not against migration and 'osmosis' of human capital, after all that is the most natural animal behavior. But I am against line cutters, just like many of my fellow citizens and Legal aliens who've been waiting nicely for their turn, The majority of illegals and out of status people made an active choice that we feel should not be revarded. And yes, we feel that it's being a revard then one alien can blatantly disregard and just do what ever he or she feels like doing, then another has to wait years without an end at times for his or her turn. The current laws are mostly fair in my opinion. An amnesty, with the terrorist threats and the political situation is completly out of question. Most of the people I hear complaining about all this are the very same ones who have never in their lives stand in a line and waited their turn without blackmailing their well abused priveleges (SKS, no need to reply, I usually quickly skim over your post, some of us have to work for a living and have no time for repetitive blabla!)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Kudris-

                        "(SKS, no need to reply, I usually quickly skim over your post, some of us have to work for a living and have no time for repetitive blabla!)"

                        Come on, you really think I won't respond?? You guys love me too much for me not to.....

                        Because I post on this board means I don't work?? Uhh, ok.......doesn't surprise me with your logic though.


                        "In general, I'm not against migration and 'osmosis' of human capital, after all that is the most natural animal behavior. But I am against line cutters, just like many of my fellow citizens and Legal aliens who've been waiting nicely for their turn,"

                        So am I..... I am against lawbreakers as well.

                        "The majority of illegals and out of status people made an active choice that we feel should not be revarded. And yes, we feel that it's being a revard then one alien can blatantly disregard and just do what ever he or she feels like doing,"

                        How is paying a fine a reward??

                        "..then another has to wait years without an end at times for his or her turn."

                        One doesn't necessarily have to do with another. There has not been an "amnesty" since 1986. Thus, what is causing the wait for the past nearly 20 years?? How are illegal immigrants, who have no way of adjusting their status, causing waits?? How so if they aren't even in the system?? Nice over exaggeration though.

                        "The current laws are mostly fair in my opinion."

                        Mine too....

                        "An amnesty, with the terrorist threats and the political situation is completly out of question."

                        I agree, that is why I'm against a "blanket" amnesty.....


                        "Most of the people I hear complaining about all this are the very same ones who have never in their lives stand in a line and waited their turn without blackmailing their well abused priveleges."

                        What does waiting in line have to do with anything?? Those waiting would be waiting regardless.

                        In any case, with your logic, I hope you like status quo! That is what you'll get if you don't want anyting done... Just don't b!tch and moan to me.


                        In any case more enter and overstay as we speak; and drive. Those here are still here. Facts.



                        Someone12-

                        "Thank you Kudris for reiterating this point -"

                        Uhh, yea, ok. Hope you two like status quo.


                        "....one that is often lost while those who are against illegals receiving GC's are labeled "xenophobic" or "racist" by those who are too dense to understand that giving GC's to line jumpers, visa scammers and border sneaks only implies that those who are waiting their turn outside the US are s u c k e r s."

                        Anybody who obeys the law is never a
                        s u c k er. You say it "implies", that is a relative term. I don't believe it does.....

                        Thus, we do nothing then!

                        "Allowing illegals to jump the queue, even after paying some measly $1500 fine, sends the wrong message. Again, 'kudos' to Kudris."

                        Don't like the fine, raise it.....

                        That is why I advocate a stronger border and better BCIS as well. Can't get much stronger of a message when people aren't allowed in!! Sounds like a good message to me..

                        You two knuckleheads can keep blowing this same tired rhetoric out of your a$$ all you want, but it ain't gonna change anything. Just let me know how and when the millions here will be deported?? Uhh, errrr, hmmmmm, ehhhhh, but.......can't do it huh? Welcome back to reality dear friends!

                        The millions here, have been here, are still here, and will always be here. More enter, overstay, and drive as we speak. Thus, you don't want a solution, then don't complain about our current situation...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          i have a GREAT amnesty plan:

                          If you LEAVE the us -- your past visa, illegal entry etc. violations are forgiven.

                          Once in your own country, you can apply to come here LEGALLY like EVERYONE ELSE.

                          There's no reason on earth why an illegal should have an easier and faster process to get a GC then an h1b or a 5th category immigrant. Especially after breaking the law.

                          In my view -- amnesty means, the ability to go back and do things the PROPER way.

                          If you think about it -- it makes *perfect* and logical sense. We won't prosecute you or hinder you for your law-breaking, but you have to do it legally like everyone else. Voila!

                          I want some commission out of my idea btw. No one better steal it!

                          -= nav =-

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Kudris,

                            I share your opinion. I am immigrant myself. I did everything by the book, even though it took more time and cost more. I am here in the US for almost a year and I am not able to work yet because of the slow process (still wait for SS number). I know people who fake a GC and who are using someone else's or a non-valid SS number in order to work. I could do that too but I dont. I am playing by the rules and WAIT (even though for a year I've stayed home every single day bored to death). I think it is not wait such a long waiting but that is the laaw now, and it has to be respected (like it or not) until it changes).

                            If you pass the border without inspection, you break the law. If you overstay your visa, you break the law. If you work without authorization, you break the law. If you are using someone else's SS number, you also break the law. I dont think a goverment should ammenesty law breakers. If USA wants more immigrants (legal immigrants) a good solution should be increase the number of winners in the lottery visa (intead of legalizing all the illegals in this country).

                            Paying a fine as punishment in order to obtain legalization is ridiculous. How much would that be? I've heard some people pay 10,000 in order to be smuggled through the border. Others pay 20,000 to marry an american. Only the wealthy illegals would be able to pay. And remember where their money came from: illegal work!!!!!

                            Again, I am an immigrant myself. My opinion is not based in anger, racism or any other kind of blinding feeling. I am being pragmatic (economic analysis of the law). If the goverment rewards law-breakers, then there will be no reason to follow the law. The legal system has to be predictable. For every action there is known consequences. Otherwise, chaos will be the rule.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Cayita

                              "I am playing by the rules and WAIT (even though for a year I've stayed home every single day bored to death)."

                              Your wait has nothing to do with the millions here.....


                              "I think it is not wait such a long waiting but that is the laaw now, and it has to be respected (like it or not) until it changes)."

                              It sure does.


                              "I dont think a goverment should ammenesty law breakers."

                              Me too...


                              "If USA wants more immigrants (legal immigrants) a good solution should be increase the number of winners in the lottery visa (intead of legalizing all the illegals in this country)."

                              Then what is the solution?? Nah, too hard.

                              "Paying a fine as punishment in order to obtain legalization is ridiculous."

                              It isn't to obtain legalization. It is for a CHANCE to obtain legalization......nothing is "handed out".

                              What is ridiculous is talking against a viable solution and not offering one of your own..


                              "How much would that be?"

                              Depends.....


                              "I've heard some people pay 10,000 in order to be smuggled through the border. Others pay 20,000 to marry an american. Only the wealthy illegals would be able to pay."

                              Silly point. Not if it is some astronomical amount....

                              "Again, I am an immigrant myself. My opinion is not based in anger, racism or any other kind of blinding feeling."

                              The hell it isn't. It is based on emotion! What is your alternative??

                              "If the goverment rewards law-breakers, then there will be no reason to follow the law."

                              How is paying a fine a "reward"? There are hundreds of laws in America that have a fine as punishment. Are you saying that when somebody pays a fine in the US, they are being "rewarded"?? That is not only silly logic but down right awkward...


                              "The legal system has to be predictable. For every action there is known consequences. Otherwise, chaos will be the rule."

                              Real cute, but doesn't solve anything. In typical fashion with people who think like you, all you do is blab without offering an alternative VIABLE solution.......not surprised, I'm used to that by now.

                              Just tell when and how the millions already here will be deported??

                              In the meantime, those millions will become ever more a part of our society. More enter, overstay and drive. Facts.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                moonie

                                "i have a GREAT amnesty plan:
                                If you LEAVE the us -- your past visa, illegal entry etc. violations are forgiven."

                                People leaving the US on their own......thanks for that, I need a good laugh in an otherwise dull day.

                                People leaving after being here many years and returning to nothing.....uhh, ok. Can I interest you in some magic beans?


                                "Once in your own country, you can apply to come here LEGALLY like EVERYONE ELSE."

                                Ahh, good material for a stand-up routine!

                                "There's no reason on earth why an illegal should have an easier and faster process to get a GC then an h1b or a 5th category immigrant."

                                How can an illegal get one right now?? Under what grounds?? Was 245(i) reinstated??

                                "In my view -- amnesty means, the ability to go back and do things the PROPER way."

                                Too bad for you our politicians don't agree.


                                "If you think about it -- it makes *perfect* and logical sense."

                                Ditto.


                                "We won't prosecute you or hinder you for your law-breaking, but you have to do it legally like everyone else. Voila!
                                I want some commission out of my idea btw. No one better steal it! "

                                The only thing you'll get is laughter and a round of applause for that comedy!!

                                Comment

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