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SAMMY - I was served divorce papers from my aduletrous alien spouse today, Now what?

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  • #46
    Hi Swissnut,
    Your husband can file waiver only if he gets divorce decree before they start deportation process, otherwise it wont be possible for him to get a waiver...Pasha

    Comment


    • #47
      Pasha thanks...
      Michael: I found the clarification from Sammy as to this matter. Sammy wrote....

      However, if USC-spouse withdraws the I-751 then BCIS would void that jointly filed I-751 and would do the same as I said above, unless alien-spouse files another I-751 under another category of its eligibilities, which is called waiver, before the given time to leave the country is expired. However, alien-spouse needs to meet all the requirements of other eligbilities with documentary evidences to support his/her position.

      The advantage for USC-spouse to withdraw Jointly filed I-751 by himself/herself first is-USC won't be liable for any kind of responsibilities that has come with submitting I-864 for her/his alien spouse. USC-spouse would get free of any responsibilities on alien-spouse once Jointly filed I-751 is withdrawn

      Comment


      • #48
        Michael you wrote: posted October 21, 2003 01:04 PM
        Please everyone; please have patience with Swissnut. I understand her. There are many support boards for immigrants.

        Well that was short lived.

        In anyway it is true there is no second chance if Fraud has been determined by BCIS. But as you see it is not all that easy unless u have written/verbal confession about purpose of marrying, whether it be by recording etc. it should be something that BCIS can use as evidence. Circumstancial, it looks like blah blah no concrete evidence will get USC off the hook for petitions not adjudicated. It may cause them to take a further look if alien gets married again the second time around. BUT there are no guarantees as you have just noted in the case of the Russian guy. And there are many more of these stories.

        If fraud has not been proven by BCIS, H visa or 2nd marriage is still option. Even in case where alien arrived on H-visa then converted to AOS thru marriage, alien can go back to H-visa if marriage failed and conditions still exist for H visa.

        Mike I believe ur speaking about getting a continuance from the IJ because you have fallen into illegal status until div is final to file for the waiver. correct?

        Comment


        • #49
          Sammy is totally wrong. There is no formal withdrawel of I-751. You think BCIS is really that good at record keeping ? There is a form they give you to withdraw the I-864. I would do that but dont worry, the government never bothers with that but just in case- do it. Ask them for the form. If you read my message before, BCIS will extend his I-551 until the divorce is finalized and then adjudicate a new petition based on divorce. Theoretically, this creates the possibility that as long as he never gets divorced, he can keep extending his visa. Again, don't worry about him, just get divorced. Sounds like he didnt take you for that much money. But whatever money he did take, demand it in divorce. Then forget it.

          Comment


          • #50
            Michael. You may be confused. True there is not an official form to withdraw the I751, BCIS asks that you write a letter to withdraw.

            2nd. YOU CANNOT WITHDRAW an APPROVED I-864. If the I751 is withdrawn and alien goes out of status and is deported, then it is automatically no longer an issue.

            These issues are very easy to be verified with BCIS.

            Comment


            • #51
              If JOINT I-751 is withdrawn ALIEN CAN FILE A NEW ONE BASED ON WAIVER PROVISIONS!

              Comment


              • #52
                Michael:

                Once again I don;t think you understand. First, I don't think I ever disclosed on this board how much money I was "taken for" ...but it was and will be very significant to me. Take for instance a husband of just nigh three years, who contributed less than $12,000 total in earnings in the 3 years we were married, while I was contributing many times that much each year for each of the 7 years.... and walks away with 50% or a business, 20% stockholdings of a small corporation; 50% equity from a home I bought, not to mention all of our cash....blah, blah, blah. But also, what about the consideration for what which was invested by me to bring him here? I can't claim that in a divorce proceeding...so that's why I just want to make sure he does not benefit from that.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Well then I REALLY don't understand why you didnt file for divorce sooner with all that at stake. I wish you luck. And there is a withdrawal form because I filled one out. Again, I don't think it means much. All I am saying is don't put your faith in deporting him. It may never happen, as you see all these loopholes and even if it does, it will take at least 3 years or more. If you did not cheat on him, then you must win the divorce and collect damages from him. Never mind immigration for now. Divorce is something YOU can do something about. Deportation is 90 % out of your hands. Just remnd BCIS in a year or so that you think it was fraud and tell them why. You should have much more financial resources than him so get a good divorce lawyer and kick his butt. Good luck.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Micheal:

                    You've asked me -whether I am an immigration attorney or not. The answer is- Yes, I do have licence to practice law now. However, I am not in this business anymore. I meant-I don't practice law anymore for living. I am into other kind of business. I've studied immigration, bankruptcy and matrimonial laws [NJ and NY states laws]. During my internship time with various law firms, I've handled thousands of cases with BCIS, Immigration Courts, BIA, Federal Courts and US Consulates at oversees. However, I now only advocate immigration laws at Social Service Agencies and Churches in my neighbourhood.

                    You've got to understand that any attorney or anyone [even a normal person] who gives opinion over here, including you, are human beings. That means- we may make mistakes or could be wrong. As you know that we are not God, who won't make any mistake. However, I don't think that I am wrong here on my opinions as you've said in your other posts. I believe either you haven't read my posts clearly and did not comprehend the text of its exactly, or you did not comprehend the memo and laws in respect to this situations that you've pasted here from BCIS's website.

                    I never said that an alien can not ask or get continuance on DEPORTATION PROCEEDINGS, instead I made it very clear and specific in posts that an alien may ask for continuance on his/her deportation proceedings for WHATEVER REASONS, and that whatever reasons could be the finalization of divorce proceedings.

                    I think you mistakenly believe that BCIS is the one that grants continuance to an alien. But it's not true at all, instead Immigration judge is the one that grants continuance, and ONLY if when an alien would be on deportation proceedings. BCIS cannot grant any kind of continuance of this nature. The only thing thay do in this situation if an alien's I-751 is denied or withdrawn is- to place the alien on deportation proceedings and let the judge to decide alien's fate.

                    And if you read that memo and law very well, you'll find that Immigration judge doesn't rule or decide on waiver or anything about I-751, instead it's BCIS's job to decide I-751. However, if someone is on deportation proceedings, IJ may grant contiuance under his sole discretion, until a divorce is finalized so that an alien can be eligible for filing I-751 under waiver provisions with BCIS, but an alien must be on deportation proceedings first before asking for continuance. And, even though an alien's divorce case gets final while alien is on deportation proceedings, still alien needs to file I-751 only with BCIS. Immigration judge is there to decide only-Why an alien who is illegal in the country should not be deported, that is. And, if alien can prove his/her eligibilities otherwise, Judge can grant the residency.

                    I believe you should also know that if you are involved in any kind of court proceedings, you are allowed to stay here legally, or considered to be legal here until the case is over in the court. That's why, during deportation proceeding, the aliens in this kind of situation, get their I-551 [green card] temporary extended until their case is decided in the court.

                    You should also know that any application or petition can be withdrawn anytime by its petitioner[s], but it must be Before its adjudication, otherwise after the adjudication, it will only be revoked based upon the finding of any misinformation on those petitions or applications. As well, I am not aware of any specific, formal or prescribed form to withdraw any kind of application/petition, instead those applications/petitions can be withdrawn thru writing a simple letter to BCIS.

                    Furthermore, if a I-751 is denied or withdrawn, then all the previously filed approved-applications/petitions in alien's case [like I-130, I-864, and even I-485 that is filed by an alien for green card based upon I-130] would automatically be dead, voided and revoked. Alien-spouse would be in illegal status immediately, and USC-spouse would be freed from all the responsibilities and liabilities for alien-spouse immediately.

                    In response to the concern of '4Now', it's true that many alien-men do indeed marry another USC-woman and get her immediately pregnant to avoid deportation by claiming hardship to USC-spouse and USC-child. However, any marriage during deportation proceedings is automatically presumed for the purpose of avoiding deportation, that's why Govt [BCIS and courts] are forced to investigate those marriages with great scrutiny and aggresively. And then, aliens must need to convince the immigration judge that marriage did not occur to avoid deportation. And, immigration Judge cares less to documentary evidences, instead they will ask very strange questions separetely in the courtroom from each spouse to determine the validity of the marriage. Nevertheless, alien won't be able to succeed in avoiding deportation based upon hardship to his/her USC-child if child is less than 11 yrs old, unless USC-child has some kind of medical problem that is making the child to be treated here medically. Because, Court's position is- USC-child is very young to endure hardship if child stays with an alien at aborad, because child has not yet got adjusted being mingle with american tradition, value, culture and society.

                    In response to the concerns of 'Sam11', an alien can not file another application for any kind of visa when an application is already pending for immigrant visa, unless with certain exception. So, an alien can not file for H-1B visa if s/he has already pending I-751 or any other immigrant petition or application with BCIS.

                    It is also true that if BCIS determines that marriage was fraudulent then alien is permanently barred to enter U.S. EXCEPT thru asylum.


                    I don't know where did you find me wrong. And if you still find me wrong somewhere, then you can live up with your information and beliefs, and I will live up with mine. It wouldn't make any difference to me what you or others think about my opinions since I can care less. I am not asking or forcing you or anyone to agree with me if you guys don't want to. I am not here to convince you or to get some kind of medal, throne, title, or clients from here, instead I devote my time, energy, efforts in helping people. Anyhow, my posts were for Swissnut, and not for you. I am not obligated to you or anyone to clarrify something whenever anyone try to contradict me. I've a lots of other things to do in my life than finding who is wrong and who is right. However, I must tell you one of the reason why I am not practicing law for living-Here it is>


                    An old man was critically ill. Feeling that death was near, he called his lawyer and told him: "I want to become a lawyer. How much is it or the express degree you told me about?"

                    "It's $50,000", the lawyer said. "But why? You'll be dead soon, why do you want to become a lawyer?"

                    "That's my business! Get me the course!", old man said.

                    Four days later, the old man got his law degree. His lawyer was at his bedside, making sure his bill would be paid.

                    Suddenly the old man was racked with fits of coughing and it was clear that this would be the end. Still curious, the lawyer leaned over and said, "Please, before it's too late, tell me why you wanted to get a law degree so badly before you died?"

                    In a faint whisper, as he breathed his last, the old man said,"One less lawyer...."

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Swissnut:

                      Please let me tell you something more about I-751-

                      An alien can not file I-751 under waiver provision if s/he is still married, EXCEPT if waiver is based upon battered and abused spouse situation. So, alien must need to wait until divorce gets final in order to file waiver ground on I-751. But, if someone is in the middle of divorce proceedings, then they can only file for waiver after they get their divorce first. However, if their divorce doesn't get final by the time they need to remove the condition on their conditional status before filing Joint I-751, then BCIS would terminate their conditional status and would ask them to leave the country and if they won't leave, then they will be ended up in deportation proceeedings.

                      However, if someone already has filed jointly filed I-751 and then ended up in divorce proceeding later on, then if divorce gets final before the adjudication of jointly filed I-751 and BCIS finds about this at any time, OR if jointly filed I-751 is withdrawn or denied, then alien would be asked to leave the country and if alien won't leave then s/he will be placed on deportation proceedings.

                      Similarly, an alien can not file two separate I-751 simultaneously, such as a Jointly filed I-751 and another under waiver provision. Instead, filed-one must has to be denied or withdrawn first before filing another one. However, alien is allowed to include more than one ground on his/her waiver application, but it has to be with only one I-751.

                      You should also know that anything that accumulated during the marriage is a marital property to distribute equally. Even if you bought the car and car is only in your name, it is still a marital property to distribute equally. As well, even though you are the one who were working during the marriage, your earned income is also a marital property. The winnings of any law suits, or any disabilities/compensation benefits and all others earnings or income are martial property. However, if your H is not asking for distribution of property on his divorce complaint, then he would loose his right to ask for it later on. But, the document that you signed for him to have most of your assests can still be challenged in civil court later on. Nevertheless, you can still contest the validity of that document by saying that you were forced to sign under threat, or it was signed under the influence of any toxication or medication, or you were asked to sign it under false pretences/promises. Judge will keep that reasons in consideration and may make that document nulled. Otherwise, you would be stuck with the agreement that you made. Like I said earlier that if you can prove that you were mentally abused by him [I believe you can, since you are seeing a pshychologist, so your situation is documented] and that your H is involved in adultery, then you will be entittled to have more share of marital property than him.

                      Please don't totally rely on your attorney alone. Do you research yourself on the side as you've been doing on immigration issues over here. As you know attorneys are not that generous to think your interests over their fees, and this jokes would make it clear their generousity>

                      One afternoon, a wealthy lawyer was riding in the back of his limosine when he saw two men were eating grass by the roadside. He ordered his driver to stop and he got out to investigate.

                      "Why are you eating grass?", he asked one man.

                      "We don't have any money for food", the poor man replied.

                      "Oh, come along with me then", said the lawyer.

                      "But sir, I've a wife with two children!", said the man.

                      "Bring them along! And you, come with us too!", lawyer said to other man.

                      "But sir, I've a wife with six children!", the second man answered.

                      "Bring them as well!", said the lawyer.

                      They all climbed into the car, which was no easy task, even for a car as large as the limo. Once underway, one of the poor fellow says, "Sir, you are too kind. Thank you for taking all of us with you".

                      The lawyer replied,"No problem, the grass at my home is about two feet tall".


                      Swissnut, I'm very glad to know that eventually you have an attorney to protect your interests, and now your attorney may be able to negotiate with your husband well in order to handle your divorce case as to achieve your best interests, so let me give you an idea on how attorneys are capable in negotiating the deal>

                      A lawyer is sitting in a bar having a drink when a beautiful woman sits down next to him. The lawyer sees the oppertunity to buy the woman a beer and proceeds to hit on her. He then asks her,"Would you sleep with me for a million dollars?"

                      The woman looks at him and says:"Hell yeah, you know for a million dollars, sure."

                      The lawyer then asks:"Would you sleep with me for $20 dollars?"

                      The woman is instantly upset and yells:"Twenty dollars, what do you think I am, some kind of *****?"

                      The lawyer then looks at her and says:"Well, we have already established that fact. Now we are just negotiating".

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Sammy:

                        Thanks two more chuckles and it is only 7:30am...life is looking birghter already, you're cool!!!

                        As to the matter which Micheal posed, I can say I was perplexed by his statements, but your answer seemed to clear up my concern.

                        So, in a nutshell, in my case...once I751 is withdrawn by me, so long as it has not already been adjudicated then all the previously filed approved-applications/petitions in alien's case [like I-130, I-864, and even I-485 that is filed by an alien for green card based upon I-130] would automatically be dead, voided and revoked. Alien-spouse would be in illegal status immediately, and USC-spouse would be freed from all the responsibilities and liabilities for alien-spouse immediate. However, if someone already has filed jointly filed I-751 and then ended up in divorce proceeding later on, then if divorce gets final before the adjudication of jointly filed I-751 and BCIS finds about this at any time, OR if jointly filed I-751 is withdrawn or denied, then alien would be asked to leave the country and if alien won't leave then s/he will be placed on deportation proceedings. BCIS cannot grant any kind of continuance of this nature. The only thing thay do in this situation if an alien's I-751 is denied or withdrawn is- to place the alien on deportation proceedings and let the judge to decide alien's fate.
                        At that point, howver, any further attempts to secure residency would be highly scutinzed, since such maneuvers were made at a questionable time and may cause suspicion with BCIS.

                        Now, I have one final question....is there a way to find out if my H has already withdrawn our "jointly filed I751"?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Sammy:

                          I pressed "send" before mentioning something about the divorce. I apologize.

                          I am aware of the fact that all acquisitions during a marriage (even the period of separation) are considered marital assets - and the equity, as well as liability on such assets is considered marital. That would include my auto, and of course, his which he acquired with the aid of his co-signer, Mistress. In this regard, however, since my auto has a large laibility and his a lesser one, since he placed a rather sizeable cash downpayment on it, both autos equity and liabilities would be taken into consideration in the divorce. Isn't that right, and wouldn't the fact that his auto has a greater equity factor be to my benefit at this time? In essence, in the divorce we would share the aggregate equity and liability? or am I not correct in that?

                          Also, I would like to clarify that although I stated the my spouse only contributed $12,000 to our marriage, that statement was not intended to suggest that this was the total of his earnings during the period. My husband earned far more than that in the period since we married. A large portion of his salary during our marriage was used to pay child support to children of another marriage (for whom I have no legal obligation) and after that he kept all of his earnings from the past 15 months - in other words he contributed nothing of his own wages to our marriage which were earned in the past year or more, and I had to undertake to finance our marital obligations on my salary alone. I don;t know what happened to his money, but he does have a bank account in town...but I don't know what kind of bank balance he has. I suspect he has some cash based upon the fact that in the past 15 months he has earned almost $30,000 and has received equity distribution from the remortgage of our home (as a result of one of the agreements he forced me to sign) of another $18,000.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Sorry Sammy didn't mean to sound harsh. This actually is a very recent thing they created for the continuance in case of a pending divorce. I still think it's a grey area. How come I read about these successful cases where they get their conditions removed because of divorce ? Is that the exception or the rule ? Thanks

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Sammy

                              Thanks again for the same precise and accurate explanations you always give and have provided again and again in this I751 matter. I do not understand why some people keep having problems with comprehension of what you write. Your opinions are respected here. Please dont get discouraged by non-professionals questioning your expertise. You are providing a valuable and charitable service on the board. People would spend hundreds of dollars for consultations and even then may not get the correct answer from an attorney. So please keep up the good work for all those vocal and SILENT who are benefiting from your knowledge and "hands on" experience.

                              Also. just wanted to note that most of these get married again cases do it before they are put on deportation notice and "stand on ceremony" that they got married before being put on notice. And these are the ones that I have heard of to have been sucessful.

                              Michael.

                              I would very much like to read about these cases you have read where the conditions have been removed . Where can I read these cases. do you have website address etc??? Im sure these cases have had issures relating to USC abuse and/or mental cruelty to satisfy the conditons removed.
                              Could you please share this info thanks

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                4 Now;

                                go to
                                alt.visa.us.marriage-based
                                this has a lot of discussions

                                There are two cases that I have seen where they claim to have the conditions removed but are extremely vague. Also there is a lawyer there that claims he does this all the time in cases of divorce. He may just be lying to drum up business and take advantage of people. Typical lawyer.

                                I didnt mean to dis Sammy at all, just questioning some statements based on what I have read.

                                Now let me ask you something about the remarriage; if someone gets denied the I-751, doesnt that mean that BCIS considers that marriage fraud and doesnt that prevent a second marriage from being used ? And if they do get a second marriage, do they have to do the conditional thing all over again or is it fraud ??? Instead of a man impregnating a woman, how about a woman getting impregnated by a new husband and claiming that its a real marriage ??


                                Thanks

                                Comment

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