PLEASE SHARE YOUR OPINION

[E.]

Moondin, I really don't argue the possibility of enforcing the deportation.
There are numbers of creative ways do deal with it. I have otlined the simplest and costliest way to deport all illegals, trying to make clear that I disagree with anyone who says that "Immigration Laws can't be enforced".
So,my question is not how to do it.
My question is WHY would we want to do it?
What real benefit is there for you to have someone "shipped out" of the country, leaving his US born children to grow with a single parent in States?
For example, you could say that it would serve the interests of Justice.
In that particular case I would like to know HOW would it serve the Justice and what is your understanding of FAIRNESS is?
If you propose a strong, unemotional, clear-cut case with facts I am not aware of then I might even support your idea.
All I need is clear answer: WHY?

[marmaduk]

They don't need to do mass deportation or sealed the border with machine gun wielding soldier. Just spend the fund for USCIS PI type to hunt down the business that hire illegals, slap the business with a $50-100K (or insert a big amount there), and sooner or later the business won't dare to hire illegals, the illegals won't have any job, illegals must go somewhere else or die of starvation, presto no more illegals
(I know its not a simple as that, but the basis still stand).

[E.]

"The reality is -- our gov't will NEVER agree on mass deportations. Even if us Americans are all in favor of it."

I disagree. If lots of americans voice loudly their support for mass deportation, government would one day have to respond to it.
After all it could become one day a matter of serious debate where public would refuse to settle for anything less than to ship all illegals out of the country.
Hispanics alone can't do much about it: after all compared to 75% of population they are clearly a MINORITY and if MAJORITY stood STRONG in its demand, I assume it would be very unreasonable to succumb to the demand of 25% of population at the cost of 75%.

I don't want to discuss "selling a borderline to Indian tribes". That is not a serious argument, although I appreciate writers' sense of humor

So, given the possibility of enforcing the deportation, I still would like to know what arguments are supporting such idea?
Please try to be unemotional and factual to the extent possible

[moondin]

The reality is -- our gov't will NEVER agree on mass deportations. Even if us Americans are all in favor of it. Too many hispanic rights groups and others would be against it. Plus without a valid border security -- it would be senseless.

The only way to 100% deadbolt the border -- is sell borderland back to Indian tribes. Who can then protect it with soldiers with machine guns. Every mexican knows NEVER EVER cross indian land to get to the US. Unless you want to deal with pissed off tribal cops.

-= nav =-

[E.]

I agree with the poster who says that there need to be a unemotional solution to the problem.
I totally agree.
Options must be made clear.
Deportation, I would agree, is ONE of the options.
Suppose it costs in average $10000 to apprehend and deport an alien. Multiply this number by 10000000 and you have $100 billion price tag, which equals to $370 tax dollars(roughly) per US Citizen to cover the costs of enforcing the deportation.
If you look at it objectively, it is not really impossible task, and if 75% of americans support it I don't think $370 will be a big deal for them.
So, to be short I could say: it is DOABLE. YOU CAN DO IT.
What I would like to hear is an honest reply in explaining what really fuels such a desire to "SHIP 'EM ALL!"
Especially those whom I described above.
I would gladly accept any argument in support of deportation, as long as supporter of such idea was willing to disclose his true intentions.

[Glühbirne]

Good luck.

[moondin]

oh..

and for every mexican i deport -- i will GO TO MEXICO and grab someone there who DIDN'T cross over, and reward him/her with a gc.

Irony baby.

-= nav =-

[moondin]

deporation IS the only answer -- and as an American, i'd be more than happy to accept a badge and round them up.

-= nav =-

[Glühbirne]

Immigration is one of those extremely charged issues that neither side is willing to compromise on. The anti-immigrationists (or whatever they label themselves) insist on mass deportation of the huge illegal alien population while the pro-immigrationists will settle for nothing less than blanket amnesty. Those brave souls in the middle who even suggest some kind of a compromise are ridiculed from both sides. Immigration is a huge problem and people on both sides need to realize that compromise is the only way that anything is ever going to get done. We need to start thinking with our minds and not our emotions.

[E.]

Dear Editor and Readers:

Ever since 1996 we hear all over again how important it is to uphold the laws and that all illegal immigrants should be deported for breaking the law and sneaking in in front of those willing to patiently wait on line.
And the "immigrant and amnesty advocates" do really bad service to their constituency by repeating the plea for a "mercy" for "hard working illegals".It sounds as if they were asking for leniency towards violent criminals and thiefs and thus requesting to allow them to get away with the crime without any repercussions.
Such argument is badly constructed,is purely emotional and senseless and can not resonate in the minds of sound and clear thinking people.
"The Law is the Law and there is no excuse for breaking it" the opponents of amnesty will say, and there is little you can argue against it.
But, I think both parties( pro and against amnesty) ignore the very fact that I would like to highlight here:
The fact is that there is a great difference between these two categories of immigrants, legal and illegal. So great that they are virtually uncomparable!
Legal immigrants are not just simply law abiding, good guys. Legal immigrants are first of all those who CAN afford to be legal immigrants: spouses of US citizens, employees of big corporations, artists,extraordinary scientists and etc. These people, in most cases,are well established, connected people for whom it wouldn't EVER make a sense to break the law or stay in the US beyond the period authorized by AG (in case if they were non-immigrant visitors).
The story of illegal immigrants is ENTIRELY different!

1. Most of Illegal immigrants are from Mexico, where they can't find a job and where their families are simply starving to death. So, for them it is a matter of survival whether they will make to US where they can find any job to feed themselves and their families.
Now, I want any LAW abiding US Citizen to think for a moment: if there was a GREAT depression in US tomorrow, if there were no opportunities whatsoever and if their children were starving while there was a possibility to cross the border illegaly and get a job in Canada:I would like to hear from them how many of them would prefer to stay here and die from hunger rather than go to Canada in search of a better life, even if they were not welcomed in Canada? It is easy to judge when you don't know.
(Whether you like it or not is another question, and if you believe in Darvinistic theory that "weaklings must die" then I have no problem with that. Everyone has a right to hold his own opinion and I have nothing to say as long as one recognizes and admits what his true beliefs are).

2. Another, significant bulk of illegal immigrants are the spouses of Permanent Residents and parents of minor US Citizen children.
Very few americans actually know that if you are an alien who happens to marry a Perm. Res. wife/husband, and if you also have US born US Citizen children, under US Law you must leave the US and wait for at least 7-8 years "in-line" before your petition for Green Card is approved and you are allowed to join your family in US.
Now, I am curious how many of good, law abiding citizens would abandon their families, their minor children and newly-wed wives only to see them some 8 years later?Could any relationship endure that?
I hear some people say:"Well, you shouldn't marry non-citizen or you should take her/him back to your home country , or at least don't have children until you are lawfully reunited".
I dare to suggest that Laws are MAN MADE and their purpose is to serve HUMAN BEINGS and NOT to OPPRESS them. If the opposite were true men would inevitably be forced to break those laws(look at any lawless third world country for a proof of this statement).
Greatness of US Constitution is in its HUMANITY, REASONABLENESS and HARMONY.
Now, apparently some of the Immigration Laws are not based on the same principles as US Constitution.
For how it would be possible to demand of the man/woman not to marry a partner of their choice simply becasue the law of the land does not allow their immediate re-unification?
How could you demand that man/woman reconsider their dreams to have a child because the law of the land will force that child to live as a half-orphan or have one of the parents as a law-breaking, "illegal" alien?
Or how could you demand that both parents move back to the country where they will not be able to earn 1/10th of what they could earn in US , thus subjecting their US born US Citizen child to the powerty, lawlessness and possibly a criminal life in the absence of alternative?
What if one of the partner are Asylee or Refufee and simply CAN NOT return to the country of origin that they share with the spouse?

Why such unreasonable laws even exist?
US Security concerns are viable and understandable and MUST be defended, but please explain to me how US interests are being served by separating a US Citizen child from the parent?
How US interests are being served by forcing a parten of Perm. US Res. wait for 8 years out of the country for his name to come up in the list?
How is it expected that families in such circumstances wouldn't break apart?
How is it expected that US Citizen children who are forced to grow in broken families won't be tempted to break the law and become criminals as they mature in single parent families?
And how is it expected that faced with the worst perspectives and ruine of family some parents won't risk crossing the border or staying in the US illegaly?
I think unless these issues discussed, unless american public understands what some of the so called "illegal" aliens endure, majority will be against any kind of legalization.

Another very wide spread myth is that illegal immigrants are criminals who are thriwing and living luxurious,dream-like lives at the expence of american taxpayers.
That is not true to the best of my knowledge.
Illegal immigrant first of all has no right to work and usually can't study or improve his/her skills to get a better paying jobs that he/she would qualify otherwise.
That makes him/her vulnerable and exposes to all kinds of exploitation without any chance of remedy in fear of deportation.
Illegal immigrant must live in a constant fear that he might be apprehended at work or while en route to work and subjected to deportation.
Illegal immigrant must live in the shadows as criminals while their concience tells them that they have not commited any crime other than seeking a prosperity and happiness through hard work and honesty, very same things that are enshrined in Constitution as sacred rights of every individual.
Illegal immigrant can't afford to buy a health insurance and thus he/she lives for many years without regular check-ups, so finally when he/she arrives to emergency room it is already too late to cure them and to put them back as productive units of society.And taxpayer, at that point, bears the expence og his healthcare.

I could tell much more about hardships of illegal immigrants.
To ignore them one must really believe that "immigrants" are made of difeerent stuff and thus any inhuman treatment is too good or justified towards them.
I believe if these issues are raised there is a much better chance of gaining a public support for legalization and other programs that would help undocumented workers to emerge from the shadows.
And US Security, of course, would benefit just as well by identifying and locating every undocumented alien living in this country.

And, why not treat them all INDIVIDUALLY? Why NOT in the process of legalization identify those bad apples who came here for wrong purposes and thus separate, punish(if required) and deport them expediently instead of letting all 8 million mix together, good and bad, without doing anything about it and calling them all with the same name?

After all, the real question is: WHO benefits from unsolved problem of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?

[E.]

Dear Editor and Readers:

Ever since 1996 we hear all over again how important it is to uphold the laws and that all illegal immigrants should be deported for breaking the law and sneaking in in front of those willing to patiently wait on line.
And the "immigrant and amnesty advocates" do really bad service to their constituency by repeating the plea for a "mercy" for "hard working illegals".It sounds as if they were asking for leniency towards violent criminals and thiefs and thus requesting to allow them to get away with the crime without any repercussions.
Such argument is badly constructed,is purely emotional and senseless and can not resonate in the minds of sound and clear thinking people.
"The Law is the Law and there is no excuse for breaking it" the opponents of amnesty will say, and there is little you can argue against it.
But, I think both parties( pro and against amnesty) ignore the very fact that I would like to highlight here:
The fact is that there is a great difference between these two categories of immigrants, legal and illegal. So great that they are virtually uncomparable!
Legal immigrants are not just simply law abiding, good guys. Legal immigrants are first of all those who CAN afford to be legal immigrants: spouses of US citizens, employees of big corporations, artists,extraordinary scientists and etc. These people, in most cases,are well established, connected people for whom it wouldn't EVER make a sense to break the law or stay in the US beyond the period authorized by AG (in case if they were non-immigrant visitors).
The story of illegal immigrants is ENTIRELY different!

1. Most of Illegal immigrants are from Mexico, where they can't find a job and where their families are simply starving to death. So, for them it is a matter of survival whether they will make to US where they can find any job to feed themselves and their families.
Now, I want any LAW abiding US Citizen to think for a moment: if there was a GREAT depression in US tomorrow, if there were no opportunities whatsoever and if their children were starving while there was a possibility to cross the border illegaly and get a job in Canada:I would like to hear from them how many of them would prefer to stay here and die from hunger rather than go to Canada in search of a better life, even if they were not welcomed in Canada? It is easy to judge when you don't know.
(Whether you like it or not is another question, and if you believe in Darvinistic theory that "weaklings must die" then I have no problem with that. Everyone has a right to hold his own opinion and I have nothing to say as long as one recognizes and admits what his true beliefs are).

2. Another, significant bulk of illegal immigrants are the spouses of Permanent Residents and parents of minor US Citizen children.
Very few americans actually know that if you are an alien who happens to marry a Perm. Res. wife/husband, and if you also have US born US Citizen children, under US Law you must leave the US and wait for at least 7-8 years "in-line" before your petition for Green Card is approved and you are allowed to join your family in US.
Now, I am curious how many of good, law abiding citizens would abandon their families, their minor children and newly-wed wives only to see them some 8 years later?Could any relationship endure that?
I hear some people say:"Well, you shouldn't marry non-citizen or you should take her/him back to your home country , or at least don't have children until you are lawfully reunited".
I dare to suggest that Laws are MAN MADE and their purpose is to serve HUMAN BEINGS and NOT to OPPRESS them. If the opposite were true men would inevitably be forced to break those laws(look at any lawless third world country for a proof of this statement).
Greatness of US Constitution is in its HUMANITY, REASONABLENESS and HARMONY.
Now, apparently some of the Immigration Laws are not based on the same principles as US Constitution.
For how it would be possible to demand of the man/woman not to marry a partner of their choice simply becasue the law of the land does not allow their immediate re-unification?
How could you demand that man/woman reconsider their dreams to have a child because the law of the land will force that child to live as a half-orphan or have one of the parents as a law-breaking, "illegal" alien?
Or how could you demand that both parents move back to the country where they will not be able to earn 1/10th of what they could earn in US , thus subjecting their US born US Citizen child to the powerty, lawlessness and possibly a criminal life in the absence of alternative?
What if one of the partner are Asylee or Refufee and simply CAN NOT return to the country of origin that they share with the spouse?

Why such unreasonable laws even exist?
US Security concerns are viable and understandable and MUST be defended, but please explain to me how US interests are being served by separating a US Citizen child from the parent?
How US interests are being served by forcing a parten of Perm. US Res. wait for 8 years out of the country for his name to come up in the list?
How is it expected that families in such circumstances wouldn't break apart?
How is it expected that US Citizen children who are forced to grow in broken families won't be tempted to break the law and become criminals as they mature in single parent families?
And how is it expected that faced with the worst perspectives and ruine of family some parents won't risk crossing the border or staying in the US illegaly?
I think unless these issues discussed, unless american public understands what some of the so called "illegal" aliens endure, majority will be against any kind of legalization.

Another very wide spread myth is that illegal immigrants are criminals who are thriwing and living luxurious,dream-like lives at the expence of american taxpayers.
That is not true to the best of my knowledge.
Illegal immigrant first of all has no right to work and usually can't study or improve his/her skills to get a better paying jobs that he/she would qualify otherwise.
That makes him/her vulnerable and exposes to all kinds of exploitation without any chance of remedy in fear of deportation.
Illegal immigrant must live in a constant fear that he might be apprehended at work or while en route to work and subjected to deportation.
Illegal immigrant must live in the shadows as criminals while their concience tells them that they have not commited any crime other than seeking a prosperity and happiness through hard work and honesty, very same things that are enshrined in Constitution as sacred rights of every individual.
Illegal immigrant can't afford to buy a health insurance and thus he/she lives for many years without regular check-ups, so finally when he/she arrives to emergency room it is already too late to cure them and to put them back as productive units of society.And taxpayer, at that point, bears the expence og his healthcare.

I could tell much more about hardships of illegal immigrants.
To ignore them one must really believe that "immigrants" are made of difeerent stuff and thus any inhuman treatment is too good or justified towards them.
I believe if these issues are raised there is a much better chance of gaining a public support for legalization and other programs that would help undocumented workers to emerge from the shadows.
And US Security, of course, would benefit just as well by identifying and locating every undocumented alien living in this country.

And, why not treat them all INDIVIDUALLY? Why NOT in the process of legalization identify those bad apples who came here for wrong purposes and thus separate, punish(if required) and deport them expediently instead of letting all 8 million mix together, good and bad, without doing anything about it and calling them all with the same name?

After all, the real question is: WHO benefits from unsolved problem of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?