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  • #61
    I am relatively new to this forum but appalled by what I see written here by immigrants with problems. First, if you came to this country the wrong way (that is, by breaking the law), you have no one to blame for your problems but yourselves. Do you really think the citizens of this country are going to congratulate you for sneaking over the border and then for using forms of ID that you bought in an alley somewhere? (Since I don't want to be attacked, please read that sentence as a *figure of speech* if you know what that is.) Whether or not you are honest is more important to Americans than your life in the country you came from. After all, you will become our neighbors and possibly even our friends. Second point: We have very poor Americans with needs and suffering through times of trouble, and they deserve our sympathy first. It's not only natural to help our fellow citizens, but it's fair because they have the right to be here and you don't.

    The rest of the comments here seem to be about complications with visas, etc. I don't think anyone reading those comments has directed an objection to an immigration problem like that.

    The objections appear to be to illegal immigrants sneaking into our country, asking for sympathy, while no one (including the authorities) even knows what your real name is.


    • #62
      To Unsympathetic: This is exactly what I have been saying for quite a while. Read all of these posts from illegals and their spouses - you notice that 100% of them are either "innocent", "deserve justice" (whatever that is) a "Second chance" or are on the same existence plane as Ghandi. None are guilty of anything except a "misunderstanding" or there were "special circumstances." Horseshit.
      No one made the overstayers overstay; no one forced someone to use fake passports and visa, no one forced someone to commit manslaughter. Go Home and stay there!


      • #63
        WOW!!! I am so impressed. You know what a figure of speech is. You really must be much more intelligent than most people on this board.

        Also, your knowledge regarding immigrants and your close attention to what has been said by people on this board is truly phenomenal.

        So, I will most definitely congratulate YOU on your intelligence and superiority to others. I am also amazed by your caring and understanding words.

        You must know a lot of people who have been illegal for a while in order to express such profound sentiments that so clearly identify with both sides.

        Thank you so much for your words of wisdom... I am sure that most people on this board have never heard anything like what you said. Everything is SO much clearer now!!!

        We really need more people like you!!!


        • #64
          guest1 - you too... WOW!!! I really must learn to look at both sides of an issue the way you two do. Thanks for sharing!


          • #65
            The issue is with ILLEGAL Immigrants, NOT legal immigrants. The issue is with those who feel that our borders and rules and laws should be set aside because someone they know or marry "made a tiny mistake."
            If you, X, are an American citizen, perhaps you should be concerned that an influx of illegals or illegals given benefits ahead of those playing by the rules may very well undermine the economic and social fabric of our nation. AFter all, lawbreakers and scammers who get a reward may be far less inclined to obey our rules and laws in the future.
            If you owned a business, who would you be more likely to hire - An Amcit, an LPR who came to the US ABOVE BOARD (read:legally) or some scam artist who either ignored the terms of a visa by overstaying and working illegally (thus having demonstrated a willingness to lie to the embassy and INS), or snuck across the border (thus ignoring or disobeying the sanctity of our borders) and running down the block as fast as possible to find somebody naive enough to marry so they might get a waiver and a green card for their actions or who used phony papers to gain access to our country and then, after being caught and when faced with deportation, etc, find another American to marry and then plead "family separation" that is caused by our "unjust laws.(rather than by the actions of the illegal)" .If you might answer in the latter group, well, good luck to you.
            It is not, repeat not, the legal immigrant that I have a problem with. It is those who would take advantage of our generous laws to obtain something they could not get otherwise except by willful disobedience, blatant fraud or just plain "don't give a $--- attitude".


            • #66
              WOW!! What a receptive attitude you have!! Thank YOU for your valuable input and cooperation!! All illegal aliens would undoubtedly be lost without your reigning sarcasm toward anyone who doesn't agree with you!!


              • #67
                Boy!! All the"can't we all just get along's" go flying out the window when you all are confronted with the FACTS laid out in a clear concise manner. All the "God Bless Yous" are seen no more. Guest 1 put everything in perspective,so well, that I think your thick layers of denial are finally starting to be penetrated.And his (or her) post is all the more compelling, because it is FACTS> not how any of you feel you have been mistreated or how you feel the laws are unfair to you' It's like what he said about the social fabric of our country unraveling. I have been saying all along that none of youi ever mention what is good for the "COUNTRY". And if you cannot see anything else in my posts ,you MUST see that my MAIN concern is for the "COUNTRY". I see things changing in ways I know are not good for America. We have all these groups looking out for the"intrests"of some group or other.Which amounts to "Them" against " US". There are Mexicans on College Campuses here in Ca,calling for Mexicans to take back Texas and New Mexico and other states and make it ATZLAND or something. These are Mexicans going to school at reduced rates that the Taxpayer is paying for.As for me not liking to hear Spanish, It is only Spanish I mention because they are the only group of people who either CANNOT or WILL NOT learn English. If a bunch of Italians were doing that I would feel the same. But other groups have enough respect for us to learn the language. Do you have any idea how much ill will you generate when some of you stand up at a city council meeting and DEMAND that we not close any more hospitals.And we have to have someone translate it for you. Someone we are paying.Because even though you DEMAND free health care you can't be bothered to learn the language. And that is another thing illegal immigrationmdoes. The people who come here legally are people who respect us and our laws. They are not likly to insist on Spanish being spoken for them because the legals are GRATEFUL for being here.They wont be one of the 450 gang members who shot and killed each other last year. They won't be the guy selling flowers illegally on the street corner who rapes a 12 year old and then goes back to his corner. They won't want to blow us up. Those are the people who come here without our consent. You keep saying our system lets in terrorists. Then we need to tighten it up more ,not make it easier.We need the Army on the border ASAP. I hear all the rumblings from people. They are FEDUP. 10 years ago I was writing letters to the editors saying that the demographics of the country were changing to fast for us to absorb. And that cultures that were too different from America were beginning to settle in large groups. And that I believed that we would have mini nations within nations if we didn't cut the flow off.What I see comming now if we don't get control here is "THE SECOND CIVIL WAR"


                • #68
                  At least it's not a war contemplated by those guys back a century ago:

                  The Internationale

                  Arise ye workers [starvelings] from your slumbers
                  Arise ye prisoners of want
                  For reason in revolt now thunders
                  And at last ends the age of cant.
                  Away with all your superstitions
                  Servile masses arise, arise
                  We'll change henceforth [forthwith] the old tradition [conditions]
                  And spurn the dust to win the prize.

                  So comrades, come rally
                  And the last fight let us face
                  The Internationale unites the human race.
                  So comrades, come rally
                  And the last fight let us face
                  The Internationale unites the human race.

                  No more deluded by reaction
                  On tyrants only we'll make war
                  The soldiers too will take strike action
                  They'll break ranks and fight no more
                  And if those cannibals keep trying
                  To sacrifice us to their pride
                  They soon shall hear the bullets flying
                  We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

                  No saviour from on high delivers
                  No faith have we in prince or peer
                  Our own right hand the chains must shiver
                  Chains of hatred, greed and fear
                  E'er the thieves will out with their booty [give up their booty]
                  And give to all a happier lot.
                  Each [those] at the forge must do their duty
                  And we'll strike while the iron is hot.


                  • #69
                    AH Ha!! I see the "one world government"socialist doctrine is alive and well.It really isn't hidden to well in that little diddy."No faith in Prince nor Peer""Each at the forge must do his duty" To give to ALL a happy lot"??/// Why don't you just come out and say that your a communist? This is a free country.And the Democrats preach that wealth re-distribution crap all the time.


                    • #70
                      Hi. I am not really participating in this posting, so I haven't read anything... I just noticed that Janiss' did respond here, and I am guessing that she hasn't read my invitation in the posting of 'harbouring an illegal alien.'

                      I wanted to briefly restate that Janiss' I would like to invite you to visit both my husband and myself, in my husband's country. We don't have to talk politics and there are a few people besides myself and my husband that speak english fluently that would be able to translate for you.... so you wouldn't need to worry about that.

                      The country is a very interesting palce to visit, and depending on how much money I can get together, I will do my best to show you as much of the country as I can.

                      As previously mentioned, I, unfortunately, do not have the money at the moment to offer to pay for your plane ticket, however, in the other posting a person by the name of "tickets" has indicated that they could offer a 15% discount on the tickets.

                      I am very interested in meeting with you, and showing you the country. Please let me know if you would be interested in this.

                      Thank you.


                      • #71
                        You don't have to say that all of the people that speak Spanish are illegal and not able to learn English. Not all of us are from Mexico. I did learn English and I'm legal. I've been here for four years and I'm working in my career. Why do you say that you don't want to hear abour Spanish speakers. It is true everybody here has to learn English, but if some people don't want to do it is their problem. They are not requiring that you learn Spanish. Don't go to that kind of restaurants if you are racist against mexican people. Go to American restaurants and you won't have that problem. Your statistics are wrong because not all of us are mexican some of us are South American and have degrees and we all learn the English language.


                        • #72
                          I was just reading this article on Stigma and I thought I would share.

                          There are numerous components and areas that are pertinent to this discussion, however for the moment I am only going to share one part.

                          "A third feature of the stigma process occurs when social labels connote a separation of the "us" from "them" (Morone 1997, Devine eta l. 1999). United States history and politics offer many examples as established old-order Americans defined African-American slaves, American Indians, and successive waves of immigrants as outgroups – the "them" who are very different from "us." Few groups were entirely spared. For example, Morone (1997) provides quotes from Benjamin Franklin's observations of the impact of Dutch immigrants ("them") on the English colonists ("us"). "Already the English begin to quit particular neighborhoods, surrounded by the Dutch, being made uneasy by the by the disagreeableness of dissonant manners... Besides the Dutch under-live, and are thereby enabled to under-work and under-sell the English who are thereby extremely incommoded and consequently disgusted" (Franklin 1752). And of course, while the groups representing "us" and "them" have changed, this separation is still prominent today. "They" are a menace to "us" because they are immoral, lazy, and predatory (Morone 1997). Thus, other components of the stigma process – the linking of labels to undesirable attributes – become the rationale for believing that negatively labeled persons are fundamentally different from those who don't share the label-different types of people. At the same time, when labeled persons are believed to be distinctly different, stereotyping an be smoothly accomplished because there is little harm in attributing all manner of bad characteristics to "them." In the extreme, the stigmatized person is thought to be so different from "us" as to be not really human. And again, in the extreme, all manner of horrific treatment of "them" becomes possible."

                          -Conceptualizing Stigma
                          by Bruce G. Link and Jo C. Phelan


                          • #73

                            If you are looking for the God bless you phrases..
                            Here it is. God bless you also. I would like to remind you that God never ceased to love us, that's how awesome He is. Spouse invitation sounds good! I can also offer 15% off fare discount.

                            One thing I want to tell you why LPR, USC and other legal aliens are fortunate enough because they have more freedom than them (*illegal) --- you could visit other countries and come back here in the US with no problem. Some people has to sacrifice not seeing their ailing, dying or even attending funeral of their relatives because they don't have that privilege. You should be happy for what you have.

                            I apologize for saying this, but I just want to let you know that don't get into people who believe that God blesses everyone.

                            Just remember GOD gives us everything and we should pray for His guidance and I can assure you,
                            you will be more compassion to those you called illegal aliens. I'm not saying there's a little problem -- infact it is indeed HUGE! we just have to start somewhere. If you are worried what will happen to America tomorrow, you know what? I am more worried for what will happen to my soul after my time in this world. As the bible says
                            "Whatever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

                            God bless you.


                            • #74
                              I saw the 'Internationale' above....

                              ....well, let's admit it sounds best in French


                              Debout les damnés de la terre
                              Debout les forçats de la faim
                              La raison tonne en son cratère
                              C'est l'éruption de la fin
                              Du passe faisons table rase
                              Foules, esclaves, debout, debout
                              Le monde va changer de base
                              Nous ne sommes rien, soyons tout

                              C'est la lutte finale
                              Groupons-nous, et demain (bis)
                              Sera le genre humain

                              Il n'est pas de sauveurs suprêmes
                              Ni Dieu, ni César, ni tribun
                              Producteurs, sauvons-nous nous-mêmes
                              Décrétons le salut commun
                              Pour que le voleur rende gorge
                              Pour tirer l'esprit du cachot
                              Soufflons nous-mêmes notre forge
                              Battons le fer quand il est chaud

                              L'état comprime et la loi triche
                              L'impôt saigne le malheureux
                              Nul devoir ne s'impose au riche
                              Le droit du pauvre est un mot creux
                              C'est assez, languir en tutelle
                              L'égalité veut d'autres lois
                              Pas de droits sans devoirs dit-elle
                              Egaux, pas de devoirs sans droits

                              Hideux dans leur apothéose
                              Les rois de la mine et du rail
                              Ont-ils jamais fait autre chose
                              Que dévaliser le travail
                              Dans les coffres-forts de la bande
                              Ce qu'il a crée s'est fondu
                              En décrétant qu'on le lui rende
                              Le peuple ne veut que son dû.

                              Les rois nous saoulaient de fumées
                              Paix entre nous, guerre aux tyrans
                              Appliquons la grève aux armées
                              Crosse en l'air, et rompons les rangs
                              S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales
                              A faire de nous des héros
                              Ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
                              Sont pour nos propres généraux

                              Ouvriers, paysans, nous sommes
                              Le grand parti des travailleurs
                              La terre n'appartient qu'aux hommes
                              L'oisif ira loger ailleurs
                              Combien, de nos chairs se repaissent
                              Mais si les corbeaux, les vautours
                              Un de ces matins disparaissent
                              Le soleil brillera toujours.


                              • #75
                                Oh my gosh, I didn't quite think that I would read Internationale on these boards...truly surprising...


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