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  • #46
    To From a distance, You make some very good points in your response. But what no one seems to understand is that it is too late for these things. Things are just too out of control now. You say it is a little problem about the mothers having the babys and they don't pay for them and then they get the WIC and foos stamps and free medical care and then we have to pay to educate them and then our prisons are now 1/4 to 1/3 illegal immigrants that we also feed and clothe and give free medical care. And then we have to GUARD them. And that doesnt even take into the picture the VICTIMS of all there crimes. Every day in CA. you can pick up the paper and 7 out of 10 people arrested the night before were illegals.All our utility bills are higher because they are printed in so many languages. And the trees cut down for all the extra paper.People who come here legally have to learn English to take the citizenship test. That gives them a lot of points with most Americans right there. We have been so invaded that at times I dont understand a word that all the people around me are saying,That happened a few weeks ago in a Carls Jr. restuarant. One girl behind the counter spoke English. All the other employees and all the customers spoke Spanish. I felt like a stranger in my own country. I felt like crying. I MISS MY COUNTRY. You say they are little problems. Even if that were true, when you multiply them by 11,000,000 they soon are overwhelming. They just raised our taxes again to try and keep open some of the hospitals that have gone bankrupt caring for all the illegals. IN LA the emergency rooms fill up every day with gang members who have shot or stabed or just beaten up someone. People are afraid to come out of their homes. Our towns have changed too rapidly. We need to close the borders until we can sort out who is who. And we need some time for these immigrants already here to become Americans.We have never had so many come so fast in our history. You must understand that when a population changes from being 12% of the whole to over half,that is no longer immigration, it is an invasion. We fell as though we have been overrun,and they just keep coming and coming. I hope this makes it easier for you to understand why we feel as we do. We just cannot let everyone come who wants to come.In a few more years This will be a third world country full of people in poverty.


    • #47


      • #48
        ok Janiss... I am so embarrassed to have even started this board because it is so full of stereotypical bashing of other people.

        All I want to know... is if the government did not offer any financial support whatsoever towards illegal immigrants and they had to do what they did without that support... would you still judge them as harshly as you do? What about those people who have overstayed a visa or become illegal without realizing it (yes this is possible... a little over a year and a half ago there was a very famous case in the Washington DC area that involved this!!!)? Or those people who although they were illegal paid taxes etc.?

        What about people who have learned to speak English? What about USC citizens that choose to speak spanish even though they know english or USC from Puerto Rico (where the first language is not English...) do you judge them as harshly as people who are not USC??

        And what about people like my husband who were illegal, felt remorseful,... but got punished when they tried to rectify the situation?

        Do you still judge EVERYONE regardless of their circumstances or reasons for being here or what they did while they were here - equally harshly?

        You seem to be bashing people for inadequacies of our government or the gov't of california (i.e. offering health care to people under certain circumstances) You also seem to be judging people based on your own shortcomings... WHY AREN'T YOU OUT THERE TEACHING ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE????? Do it for an affordable rate or for free and you will find that there are a lot of people that want to take your class....

        I dare you to do something socially constructive rather than to just get on an immigration board and attack the people you don't know that are looking for help!!!!

        For any rational person there is a middle ground here that involves making compromises on both sides... If you don't want to find that middle ground... either do something about your issues (like teach ESL) or shut up and stop complaining


        • #49
          That was great spouse!!


          • #50
            I don't find Janiss last response to be offensive,
            it's her opinion and that's what she observed.
            There's no way that one can win over this argument.

            To all, if you can recall Janiss first post, it's very true. And remember it's her opinion. One birth cost 12,000 minimum, excluding the WIC and routine checkups, plus the child gets the full medical and WIC.

            And to Janiss,
            This is a problem between Medical ethics and Government. The hospital cannot reject someone who is in need of emergency treatment, if someone who is dying knocks in your door, are you going to close your doors? as a human being, I believe you will do something at least. I have relatives in medical profession who's battle is their own conscience when they fail to save someone.
            Their profession is to save lives. In my humble opinion, this free and ready emergency medicare can be revised.

            I can see the big point why a lot of people found your comments attacking and harsh, because you don't believe that there are true gold among us.
            Not every illegal in this country should be treated like a real criminal, I can testify to you that you may be one being served by an illegal nurse or doctor in this country. I have a lot of friends and acquaintances who take care of elderly and treats them like their own family, and I saw clearly with my own eyes how others treat these old family of us like no one. It is very sad.

            Ever since I was little, I always believe that not everyone behind bars are real criminals, some, may be very few were victims of incorrect judgement due to lack of money and power. In some other countries, when a poor person was murdered they usually don't get the justice they derserve. Bear in mind no one is perfect in this world, therefore we can only make things better. Whenever someone mentioned that they don't care about the problem of their countries, I believe that is more serious than violating an immigration law. Remember that the 10 commandments was summarized as "Love God above all and love you neighbor as you love yourself".

            Give some good words and it will be returned unto to you. We can never stop arguing our opinion but we seldom appreciate the little goodness. Imagine a piece of paper with a small dot in the middle, what do you notice the cleanliness of the water or the dot in the middle. How about a half of glass of water, is it half full or half empty.

            Janiss, I know that there are number of people in this board trying to find a loop hole and some may not even value their green cards, but please remember too, that there are some who does the opposite.



            • #51
              To Spouse, There is no way to make someone understand something when their defenses are filtering everything they hear. You are picking and choosing comments from my posts that are making YOU uncomfortable because of the way your situation is. Have I ever said anything about not wanting immigrants here? I would go out of my way to help any person who came here legally. And I don't care if they get all the services due to an American. I have no problem with any of that. But which part of ILLEGAL don't you understand?? I know you think there are people who are being treated unfairly. And you might be right. But the laws are there for the "common good". That is a concept that you seem unwilling to accept. In this country we have to be concerned about what is best for "THE COUNTRY", not just ourselves.I had to recently stop driving my car because it did not pass a new stricter smog test. They only pick about 5,000 cars a year to take this test.So because I do not have the money for a new car, I am walking and taking the bus.Do I think that the law is unfair. You bet I do . Do I think I should not have to obey it because I don't have the money for a new car and they should let me get out of it?? Maybe. But I am obeying the law because it is the law.I am not asking anyone to make an exception for me because it is making my life harder. Because if they make an exception for me , then what about the next guy and so on and so on. Its the same with immigration. We were nice for a while and looked the other way as people snuck in. And what happened?? They started POURING in. And now they are DEMANDING (some groups)amnesty or some other way to stay here. If we don't do something NOW ,this country will turn into another third world country. And then we will all be in the same boat. Is this what you are hoping for.? Do you think we should let EVERYONE in ? Or just your person? I haven't heard anything from any of you about if you have given any thought to what is good for this country. You all think only of what YOU want from us. Well if you find that uncaring I can't help that. But someone has to look at reality,and what is happening here.And someone has to care about that. If things have gotton so bad in 20 years ,can you imagine what it will be like in another 20?And to "From A Distance" You sound like a wonderful person.We need more with your willingness to look at the whole picture. And thanks for the kind words. It isn't easy to come back here and read some of this stuff,And I am really not a mean person. But I TRULY am afraid for this country. I have three grandchildren that I want to see have a good life .


              • #52
                Two things... most of my post was referring to ILLEGAL immigrants

                and... my situation is completely out of wack and I am not allowed to have a family in the USA because my husband was here illegally for a while. (although he left of his own free will, never used any free medical services, or anything else at all that you think the government offers.)

                My husband has been out of this country for over a year and a half now and will be out of the country for almost three years if there is a miracle and we are granted the waiver... although I doubt it is possible. He is trying to come here legally to be with his wife... rather than simply coming over the boarder with a coyote.... do you support his immigration? Do you support family unity?

                Second off my question about language was very pertinent to those people who are citizens of this great country, because many people who speak languages other than English are citizens... next time you are in a situation where you feel foreign - survey the people about whether or not they are citizens or at the very least legal immigrants... you might find that the only reason you feel foreign is because you never bothered to learn another language.

                The problem with this country if you ask me is not illegal immigration but rather deterioration of family values.

                I hope that you have not been teaching your children and grandchildren your prejudice and hate... because those are not family values that we can be proud of.

                Finally, let's not support illegal immigration, but rather support those things that make sense... like allowing people like my husband to live with their family and not stereotyping people we don't know.

                If you have a problem or fear of poverty than do something constructive, don't just increase the spread of social problems like steretyping and prejudice, etc. etc. etc.


                • #53
                  One more thing, I think that we should all abide by the laws of our country or the one we want to live in. I do not think that illegal immigration is ok and I do not think we should simply open up our borders! I just think that the laws should also be just!


                  • #54
                    to Spouse-your post just exemplifieswhat I had been saying. Your husband had been living here illegally. Now when it suited him ,he wanted to become legal. Then he was suprised when all wasn't forgiven. Now YOUR mad and want to change laws that YOU find unfair.And you want me to change MY language to make it easier for the immigrants. A question, Just who went where here? If they weren't here,or would learn the LANGUAGE OF THE USA,I wouldn't be having a problem. Being as even LEGAL immigrants are INVITED guests here, I believe the burden is on them to adapt. MY LIFE should not have to change. If I were to go to a country where they spoke a different language I would expect to have to learn that language. Can you name me one other country that would be going out of its way the way this one does to provide things in other languages. We had a lot of immigration at the turn of the century from Europe. THOSE people never expected any special accomodations. They were just happy to be here and wanted to become AMERICANS as fast as they could. They did not expect AMERICANS to learn their language. It is only the the waves of uneducated people that we are getting now that are causing these problems. Do you ever wonder why Vincente Fox is so anxious to send all of his lower class citizens to the USA? And why he is bringing the former mayor of New York to Mexico to try and stop some of the crime. ? He told reporters that he could not control the Mexicans because they were too lawless and would not follow rules.So we are supposed to be happy about getting all the peopleMexico doesn't want? And if you miss your husband so much why don't you go whereever he is. Wouldn't THAT count as "family reunification??What,you don't want to learn another language? Help the local poor out?Change your lifestyle? "Sacrifice"??Why don't you try doing what you want everyone else to do. After all ,one good thing about this country is you can always leave


                    • #55
                      Janiss: Very well done. This is exactly the issue with Spouse's situation and others - "family reunification" should outweigh violations of laws. Well Spouse, Cleogirl, Juju, etc, perhaps we should not jail murderers, thieves, robbers or child molesters if these criminals have a wife (and kids)...gee, we would "separting families with unfair laws.." (to listen to many of them)...but we don't do that, do we? So why should it be different for those who have broken immigration laws???Hmmmm? Sounds like everyone wants a reward. What is wrong with this picture?
                      If penalties are enforced firmly and consistently, then perhaps fewer people would try to scam their way into the US. One can hope.
                      Again, well done Janiss.


                      • #56
                        Well Janis, first could you tell me what the language of puerto rico is? Also, could you tell me where people of puerto rico have citizenship?

                        Next, I have not gone to live in my husband's country for a number of reasons, including risks to my health, and stress that could seriously hurt my mother's physical condition and because I am working on a graduate degree that I hope to use to HELP PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY. I already have learned another language and have adjusted my lifestyle several times. I have also taught English as a Foreign Language in an attempt to help educate immigrants into this country, so you are yelling at the wrong person.

                        Once again I will re-state my beliefs... I believe in family reunification and fair punishment for the breaking of laws. I think that 2 years out of the country (which was the time he was in this country both legally and illegally) is plenty of punishment in my husband's case and I also think that if further punishment is deemed necessary then community service would be a more appropriate way to serve his time, in this way he could give back to the community that he "has taken so much from."

                        I also think that attitudes likes yours are the reasons that more people don't rectify their illegal situations. That is what my husband did when he left the country instead of simply marrying me under an act of pardon that was available for marriages. It is also what he is involved in now, as he is not simply crossing the border again... but you don't seem to see that.


                        I do NOT think that ANYONE that has commited a felony (i.e. child molestation, murder, etc.) should be allowed to get out of jail free (even under the area of coommunity service and/or parole.) However, I do think that those people who have not commited felonies should be punished as well, but not as extremely and depending on the case (especially those in which no moral laws were broken and no person was hurt or put at risk by one's actions) I believe that community service, parole, and other lower grades of punishment should be equally available (both to citizens and to non-citizens) especially when there are extenuating circumstances....

                        In fact the USA tends to feel this way as well, that is why there is a waiver (for which I am applying) written into the law. The problem? Well, the waiver is almost impossible to obtain.

                        However if you wish to continue with the personal attack please feel free. I will not judge you as a person(or people), only feel sorry for your misinformation and harsh judgements... I will also bow out of this attack with my previous statement.

                        May God judge you as you have judged others!


                        • #57
                          Actually, I am going to say THANK YOU. Seriously. THANK YOU very much for your comments. They have helped to teach me exactly what people who are constant recipients of anger and hatred and prejudical judgements from people they don't even know, experience.

                          It is an extremely wounding experience that I think could easily make a person hyper sensitive to things in the future. (It is definitely too personal to be an intellectual discussion)

                          I am surprised that I found this on a board that I thought would help me and provide support (and don't get me wrong I have gotten a lot of that, which is why I keep returning)....

                          but your comments really hurt, especially since you don't even know who or what you are talking about. As a white upper middle class American woman, I always sympathized with people who experienced racism, but I never really felt it. At least not to the degree in which I am currently experiencing the emotions.

                          So thank you for teaching me the things I needed to know. Now you will have to forgive me if I don't return to this conversation as it is way too painful, and I don't want to become embittered or hypersensitive if I can help it.

                          I love my husband with an incredible passion, and I am sure that if you ever meet him, you would like him as well.

                          Good luck to you in the future.


                          • #58
                            To Spouse: It is NOT easier to cross the US borders illegally - more than 10 million, that's right, MILLION visas were given out last year to tourists, students, various kinds of workers - 10,000,000. Now, how many people entered or tried to enter the US illegally last year? EStimated total less than 200,000. So which is really easier?
                            Maybe you are unhappy because your husband could not qualify for a visa and decided to ignore our rules and laws and sneak across the border. And then, lo and behold, there is a penalty. What a surprise. Or maybe he did get a visa, told the embassy he was just going to visit for a couple of weeks and stayed a year or two!! Was that the truth he told the embassy and INS? No. Do we have laws about overstaying? Yes. Are there penalties? Yes.
                            But there seems to be a consistent level of whining on this site - everyone whose spouse or boyfriend/girlfriend who is either facing deportation or exclusion or was deported feels that their case is "different" and that somehow the laws are unjust because their relative or friend cannot return to the US for some period of time. Well, they (the aliens) are not in jail (except Juju's ). They can live and work in their country of residence for a while. But no one wants to admit that this is fair. All of the contributors who have someone in this approximate situation want someone who visits this site (or perhaps other sites) to produce some magic answer that will allow the person(s) who broke the law to reap a reward instead of a penalty. Or to form some kind of group to lobby for "fair and just laws" (read: give my husband/boyfriend a green card now, but penalize all those other "bad people").
                            Who are those other "bad people?"


                            • #59
                              First spouse I am very sorry to hear that this is having such a negative impact on you. I hope that you hold true to your statement and don't return to this posting.

                              For everyone else, I think the issue here has been blown way out of proportion.

                              First, Illegal immigration is breaking the law and there must be consequences. Nobody here appears to have any issues with that.

                              There are also different types of immgrants and illegal immigrants and some are worse than others.

                              There is also a difference between being back in your home country and being in jail. Although home countries are often bad enough to warrant people being willing to be illegal.

                              (Both jail and home country separations are extremely painful and just as there is a chance for parole, there is a chance for waivers. Although there is a definite discrepancy, as I understand, between the ease of obtaining parole and the ease of obtaining a waiver.)

                              Frankly, I personally like the idea of community service.

                              I think that some of the problems that are being taken are the comparisons between illegal immigrants and murderers, child molesters, etc. And you really can't convincingly argue that they are the same type of crime...

                              Finally, we cannot change are people's stereotype about immigrants nor the fact that someone fell in love with a person and feels that they are in a bad emotional situation.

                              The only potential benefit in this conversation is a serious discussion of the issues (i.e. is the waiver adequate) and a willingness to compromise.

                              Without these facts, people like spouse are being hurt and others are... well I am not quite sure what they are doing or what they hope to accomplish..


                              • #60
                                I am praying for you and your family. Remember the decision is not in the hands of who make such opposing remarks on you. The only thing that I can see is some posters does not want to give a second chance, again second chance not third not fourth. I have a friend who keep visiting his family on Christmas and sneak in the border to come back -- that' not RIGHT. I have another friend who is here for the last 10 years without seeing his family back home, why because he does not want to commit another illegal entrance.

                                I am very excited to hear your success story about your husband. I know it's there --- coming soon


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