Janiss

May God one day judge you as you have judged others!!!!

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If one has broken one of God's laws or one of the government's laws that is for the maker of the law to decide. It is not your place.

Also, since you seem to believe that God's laws and the governments laws are the same, you do not really have much to concern yourself with on this board... unless of course you have an issue that pertains to you directly that needs to be addressed.

Meddling in others affairs and passing stereotypical judgements on people you do not know while they are in crisis appears to be a relatively childish thing to do and is not constructive for anyone. These people will have their judgement day in front of God and in front of the government.

By the way - you appear to be relatively religious, do you know the Lord's prayer? ("and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who
trespass against us")

May God one day judge you as you have judged others!!!!

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If one has broken one of God's laws or one of the government's laws that is for the maker of the law to decide. It is not your place.

Also, since you seem to believe that God's laws and the governments laws are the same, you do not really have much to concern yourself with on this board... unless of course you have an issue that pertains to you directly that needs to be addressed.

Meddling in others affairs and passing stereotypical judgements on people you do not know while they are in crisis appears to be a relatively childish thing to do and is not constructive for anyone. These people will have their judgement day in front of God and in front of the government.

By the way - you appear to be relatively religious, do you know the Lord's prayer? ("and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who
trespass against us")

The issue is not forgiving trespassers. Illegal aliens can be forgiven by those whom they've trespassed against -Americans and their laws- but that doesn't mean Americans must then embrace or ignore illegal activity or sympathize with it.

to continue this discussion email me at changetheinslaws@yahoo.com... I have a few quotes from the new testament in the bible that I would like to get your opinion on.

I will consider e-mailing you but it has not been my intention to discuss the Scriptures - especially as they relate to illegal immigration. The topic of "God" viz-a-viz "illegal immigration" was already raised before I entered my first post.

Please allow me, though, to say this much to you.
I admire you and others who have expressed themselves in this forum for standing up for what you believe.

I sympathize with some of you who seem rational in viewing what may in actuality be "unfair" (or not) by the most sincere reasoning.

But - if you read still other comments posted here, there are those posters who wrongly hope to take advantage of an already generous legal system - which considers almost every mitigating claim and treats each case separately on its own merit.

Put more simply, instead of humility, instead of personal acknowledgement, instead of remorse, many of the posters to this site are needlessly combative - toward citizens who are not their legal hosts and a country which is not their birthright.

I have just as much right to be here as anyone. I am a concerned CITIZEN, who has been watching my country turn into a third world ghetto. Full of uneducated criminals. I came to this site at first hoping to find someone to start talking too that would maybe relay my and many many other peoples concerns about what we see happening., and perhaps find some common ground to work on making it better for all. But what I found after a few days of just reading were a lot of VERY ARROGANT people who were breaking our laws at will, and then complaining that the laws were unfair!!People who act as though WE are the problem and that we should make it as easy as posibble for you and whoever you want to send here or bring in later. You act as though the American people should have no say in this at all. I cannot believe the remarks from some of you about the country , our laws, and our citizens. I was born here and yet I would never expect the privlidges and special favor and treatment that you people expect. All while disrespecting our legal system and our countrys cultural makeup. I thank God every day for this wonderful country. And I have studied YEARS of Historyabout it and I understand the kind of people it took to make it great. And what it cost in lives and treasure to get where we are today.This is the country that EVERYONE would like to live in. What on earth makes you all so filled with yourselves to think that instead of good decent people who would come here legally and respect us and our country,that YOU should be allowed to stay here just because you WANT to. I believe what John Kennedy said once was very true."ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU,ASK WHAT "YOU" CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY. Well myself and a LOT of other concerned citizens thik that what we can do for our country is to keep ,people such as the ones here OUT of our country. We will be passive no longer. The sleeping masses have awoken.We are starting to make ourselves heard. And we all vote!! We are people that our leaders WILL listen to or they will no longer be our leaders.

Actually, I think the point is that half the people on this board are American citizens as well, and we are also trying to do what we think of as the right thing for this country. We are also encouraging awareness, not asking for special treatment, but fair treatment... constitutional treatment, etc. We also value what we consider to be the values upon which this country was based and we are raising awareness amongst people as well - of our own difficult sitations and private tortures, and the fact that murderers and thieves often get lighter sentences than immigrants.

Either way I understand your point about:

I am a concerned CITIZEN, who has been watching my country turn into a third world ghetto. Full of uneducated criminals.

I can't say I blame illegal immigration for much of this, but then again I am just so totally devastated by the state of the world today, that I can't really find one group that is worse than others.

However, if you are truly concerned about this issue, may I suggest that in addition to attacking people (or maybe without attacking people) you go down into the Ghetto's here in the USA (or abroad if you are sure that is where most of the problem is coming from) and attempt to educate people? Teach them any skill that they might need, or might help them to survive in mainstream america (or their own country) or that would help them to be better respected in the eyes of people like yourself.

May I also suggest that if you think that immigration is a huge problem that you learn about the laws, and go into places where you think there are a lot of illegal immigrants and educate people about other ways in which they can obtain success for themselves and life for their families. Perhaps you would be able to show them a way in which they wouldn't have to be here illegally.... and they would willingly either go home or get legal.

It sounds like you have a lot of answers. I hope that you offer them to help out the USA in a way that can realy be seen, felt, and respected by everyone,

rather than just making people who are already frustrated enough to seek out a board of this type, feel worse, and realize that they are not only up against insane laws that separate families and don't adequately protect our country, but also against people that hate them just for an external label.

Good luck in all of your future endeavors, may they be positive and fulfilling.

Also, just to increase your awareness, I have yet to meet one illegal alien that wouldn't come here and stay legally if there was a way to do so.

For all of us, please tell us how that can be done so that we can spread the word....

to Spouse: Sorry, but the US cannot absorb every illegal who wants to come here and become legal. NOr could any developed nation do so without seriously compromising their own economy and standard of living. That is why many countries have LIMITS on how many people can immigrate legally. Just because a person wants to live in the US doesn't confer any right to do so.
As far as "insane laws that separate families"...well, what insane laws are these? The ones that impose penalties for fraud? For using phony passports? For not abiding by the terms of a visa privilege? These are insane laws? No way. They are designed for a reason. Control the flow of scam artists, liars and cheats.
It is amazing how many people who write in to this site whine about how the laws they broke are so unfair..."gosh, why won't the United States give me a break because I broke her laws oh boo hoo boo hoo". Yet these same law breakers/whiners want to find some loophole law they can sneak through and cannot understand why so few people want to help them do it. Grow up. The adults who broke the law knew they were doing wrong - and yet few want to pay the price. They want to quickly marry an American and hope all will be forgiven. If it doesn't work (or doesn't work quickly enough [like in 15 minutes or so] they complain about the "separation of families" and the "insanity of our laws" - as if they had a single clue about what they were talking about. The separation is usually caused by the breaking of laws by the alien; not by the legislators nor the Americans who do not wish to see their standard of living decline to help all of the scam artists, cheats and liars. But few people seem to recognize this salient fact.

Actually guest 1, the laws people broke are NOT at all UNFAIR to the best of my knowledge (i.e. these laws most definitely should be in place!!!!) although unfortunately, I do believe that some of the penalties are overly harsh. One example of this is the 3/10 bar, which has only been in existance in its current form since 1996, so it is not a well established tradition. I think that a 10 year bar is an extremely harsh punishment for someone whose only crime was overstaying a visa, especially if that person is married to a US citizen or has US citizen children.

In this situation the US citizen should not be punished this harshly. The answer to this dilemma is that the person, like any other criminal who has not committed a felony, should be a very real possibility of parole or community service.

In fact, I personally think that the harship waiver should be a lot easier to obtain rather (i.e. a reality rather than just a myth) and that after said waiver is granted the laws should focus on the importance of staying married (make that 10 years) and on giving back to the community that an immigrant "hurt" i.e. by doing community service.

If someone has committed a crime of a scarier nature, perhaps they should be barred for 10 years or more (depending on the crime), but if they have family here, perhaps it would be better to put them on parole... that way we could actually keep an eye on them and make sure that they do not become repeat offenders.

By no means should we open up our borders and let just anyone in, but we should organize our government offices and protect our citizens and their families!!!!!

I hope this clarifies my philosophical stance on this.

We,who support people who have immigration problems does not promote nor agreed that
fraud is not wrong and should not be punished. Why is that so difficult to understand?
When you comment about it, as if that you are the most perfect creation here on earth.

Waiver exists for some sort of violations, is it bad to inform others that there might be some
form of relief for them? If fraud such as phony passports or visa are the most serious crime,
do you think waiver for this should exist. The waiver is not granted not just by
submitting it, there are factors need to be proven, to be exact extreme hardship, and family
separation is not part of it. Other than that, an alien needs to demonstrate good moral character,
and asset to society, etc. Therefore, quick marriage does not just solve the problem.

"scam artists, liars and cheats"
You should be very proud of yourself if you never done one of this in your life. Look at your
children, your own. If they lie to you, how do you handle them? do you send them out
permanently, or you at least look on the intensity of their mistake and give them the appropriate
punishment and guide them.

Again, I am not saying that lying is not bad.

Thank you for your time. God bless.

Sorry, I must have missed your post when I was here earlier. I appreciate your civil tone of voice and also appreciate what you are saying.

There are definitely people on this board that write things that make me feel as if they want to get away with things, and that is distressing and disheartening, however (as I always try to see the best in people) I like to think that it may just be frustration speaking - due to unclear laws and the fact that every INS office and every lawyer has something different to say.

I SOMEWHAT disagree that this is a generous legal system, although I do believe that the original laws (whether or not they are administered correctly) were created to provide equality and the chance to "treat each case separately [and] on its own merit."

I believe that people who are trying to "get away with things" and morally don't deserve to - will be weeded out, my concern however is that many good people (with US citizen relatives) will be weeded out as well, and will not really get a fair chance.

and that even if they are able to get into this country, they will face racism and discrimination based on their external label.

Many illegal immigrants are not criminals in the sense of breaking a moral law (hurting someone else) many have only broken laws that pertained to working or living in an area, and I believe that these people should be treated differently then those who have robbed or murdered or otherwise hurt other individuals.

I have to see the difference between breaking a law to help someone (i.e. your family) and breaking a law that hurts someone else. That is where the moral and religious question comes in for me.

I just hope that we are able to move far enough ahead in the next few years that my children will not have to suffer for the LEGAL "sins" of their father (when he was 21 years old).

Thank you for your reply. Take care.

Janiss,

Why don't you look for another place to make your stupid comments? Don't you see most of us are immigrants looking for help and not for attack? If you are promoting any anti-immigrant organization go away and do your comments in another website instead of being tread by tread frustating people. If you are frustrated is not our fault. You are not going to change anything giving us your unhearted thoughts. I wish you would live in a country where there is not employment. We are not criminals. All we need is work to support our families. I have a B.S, in my country, unfortunately I could not find a job, even though I am a very qualified professional. I found a job here and that is why I stayed. Don't judge people just because they are not American. You have to ask first why they are here. As well as there are immigrant criminals there are also Americans, therefore, be an immigrant does not mean be a criminal.

to Guest of Go Away Janiss: Why don't you go away?
If you came here with a tourist visa ( or snuck acorss the border) and then stayed because you found a job, that is not the right way to accomplish that task. That is the way of illegal aliens. This site is full of material from ILLEGAL immigrants wanting to find some loophole to crawl through because they thought they should have the right to be in the US. Well, they don't.
If Janiss or anyone else disagrees with your position, too bad. If you don't like adverse opinions, return to whatever country you came from and leave us alone. One nice thing about the US of A is we have the right to free speech.

What if I did stay with a tourist visa? Did it mean that I was not able to become legal? For your information I got a legal status thru Asylum and I like this country. That means I'm sorry but I'm not going to leave. As you say I have the right to express my opinion. so go away you and your bad mood. If you don't like immigrant people too bad because neither Janiss, nor you are going to stop the immigration to this country. Fortunately for immigrants or unfortunately for people like you this country has much more oportunities to work than countries like mine have. I did not want to offend American people, but with the way of your post you make me think in the same way than David on the other tread: take away all of the good jobs from stupid anti-immigrants Americans like you. That is why I stayed and I'll stay here just to take the good jobs out from people like you.