.......................

[Debman]

Someone12,
It is not my opinion of them that has anything to do with this. And furthermore it is not my duty to talk to them about their appearance. This is something I noticed since I started working in America and this is the reason I understand why people employ foreigners. Would you like it if your (american) employees come to work late every third day, not dressed properly, "hickey's" all over their bodies and then leaving employment without so much as a note?
If that is the kind of employees you want, go ahead. I just mentioned that you cannot blame immigrants for getting jobs, because this is the way some americans feel towards their jobs. Wouldn't you take the best possible candidate that leaves the best impression with your customers or would you just hire someone (no matter what they look or act like) as long as they are american?

[AliBA]

Debman--And Mexican employers prefer to hire Guatemalan illegal immigrants to do the jobs Mexicans won't do. They claim Guatemalans have a better work ethic.

The point: you and they are making self-serving claims to justify bad (and illegal) behavior. Your comment about American workers could easily be matched by our comments about all those immigrants (legal and illegal) who cheat our welfare system, such as those come here to drop anchor babies at our expense, then live off the welfare they can collect for their kids, or the Arab asylees who had a ring going to commit welfare fraud. Or those whose "work ethic" vanishes the instant they get a green card. All of which is why immigrants have a much higher welfare rate than natives.

[AliBA]

Debman--You make a wrong assumption: that employers want to hire the BEST qualified person for the job. Ain't so. What they want are the best qualified they can get at a particular price they're willing to pay. And since most immigrants want desperately to get a green card, they'll take any job they think might get it for them. Which means the labor market is corrupted--the green card becomes part of the compensation equation for foreigners, even though it's not important to US workers.

If the worker you described still has a job, it isn't because he's American. It's because he's a relative or friend of a friend of the boss. They're are plenty of Americans, particularly older ones, who have the work ethic you think is unique to foreigners. Particularly when you consider it's those lazy foreigners who take a state-mandated month off in the summer, work only 35-hour weeks, and whose governments offer unemployment compensation and welfare at the drop of a hat. And whose unemployment rates surpass ours (those foreigners just don't want to work, do they)

[SKS]

someone12

"to SKS - the educational bills are in those states who have passed legislation awarding in-state tuition to illegals....someone has to pay and that someone is the taxpayers...why should they (illegals) get something that not even US citizens could get if they wished to attend a college out-of-state?"

That is an policy issue. Thus, those responsible are the policymakers, not the immigrants. Are there any illegal immigrants in Congress? Focus your anger on the people responsible, do not scapegoat.


"Or worse, family members of military folks who get posted in another state cannot receive in-state tuition!!! And this while perhaps those same military fathers and mothers are in Iraq? Enough already."

Yeah, enough already! I fail to see what this quote has to do with immigration. Nothing. Why you ask?? Well, ask the policymakers instead of the immigrants!

[AliBA]

SKS's comment, "more enter, more stay" means more fools selling themselves into servitude and taking the rest of us down with them. Those failing schools are failing not only US students, but immigrant students as well. The difference is, many Americans can afford to put their kids in private schools, and won't vote for taxes for the public schools, or will vote with their feet by moving to nonimmigrant communities. Since education has been a way out of poverty for generations of immigrants, you can bet that today's immigrant children can look forward to having a lot less opportunity than previous generations. What you see in class divisions in countries such as Mexico or Brazil could easily happen here.

[moondin]

>Americans but they fill out shortage in US >labor market which is very positive for >American economy.

That's such a stupid stereotype the illegals spew which is SOO false. Probably only 5% of illegals work on farms or for less than $6/hr.

I live in LA where most illegals live. I don't see a farm for MILES.

If you did stats, you'd find 90% of illegals work for $6/hr or ABOVE. Most work in restaurants, factories, service industries, stores, security, etc. Americans don't want to work those jobs???

Hell, i know some illegals with MORTGAGES!

-= nav =-

[Melanie]

moondin:
Cut the bull**** please!

There are plenty unfilled positions at post office, in our schools, at police and many other places saying HIRING NOW in superstores!

Cut the bull**** please!

[SKS]

someone12

"the reason you cannot see any connection between immigration, in-state tuition for illegals, jobs in America, taxpayers shelling out for illegal children going to school (or their illegal parents having children in US hospitals) is because you are so busy pasting Smiley faces on everything you do not agree with -"

Ok, what does that mean?? Have I lied about our current situation?? In what why have I "missed" something??


"....and no amount of information presented to you will deter you from making non-sensical, useless "statements" that attempt to dismiss anything posted by anyone other than yourself."

How can I make anything other than a nonsensical statement to something that is, in fact, nonsensical?? What you clowns state, with your tired old rhetoric, is just that, nonsensical! What statement is nonsensical anyway?? Thus, I will poke holes in your logic until you get a clue.


"You fail to realize that, for example, a $1500 "fine" is not a deterrent to illegal immigration and therefore it is not a punishment,"

Raise the fine then....


".... but rather a cheap way to get a GC ahead of those playing by the rules."

How so, they go through the AOS process.


"It is no different than if one had to pay $1 for exceeding the speed limit by 50mph....who would obey the signs?"

Nah, incorrect comparison....don't like the fine, raise it.



"If this fine is supposed to be a real penalty, then make it stiff enough to sting."

There you go!!


"...or offer the option of departing the US if one cannot pay....it's like being sentenced for something by a judge...."$300 or 30 days..."

Cute.



"You also seem to have total disregard for those individuals waiting their turn to legally immigrate by dismissing their situation in a cavalier manner...."

How am I dismissing anything?? All I am saying is that they would be waiting regardless.


".and you do not see the unfairness of illegals getting advantages by their presence in the US over those outside it."

Some things in life are unfair. That is the way of the world, unfortunately. Reality hurts....

"BUt then the mental energy drain pasting Smiley faces probably exhausts your cut-and-paste mind so that logical reasoning cannot take place."

Explain how my "illogical" depiction of our current situation is wrong.

"Oh well....too bad for you....oh yeah....what is that silly closing line of yours??"

I am afraid it is quite the contrary.....YOU are the one who is out of touch with what is going on.......

Too bad for you, but those here ARE HERE TO STAY!!! Tell me, when will I see massive deportations?? Can you answer that?


"......"more enter, more stay, even as I cut and paste Smiley faces...."

You seem to not like that statement. Why?? Is it because you know deep down it is the truth, and you can't do anything about it?? Or do you want to explain away that fact by attempting to dodge reality by talking about the smiley faces??

In any case, I don't see any feds conducting checkpoints on Sunset Blvd., do you?

[SKS]

aliba

"SKS's comment, "more enter, more stay" means more fools selling themselves into servitude and taking the rest of us down with them."

Whatever the case may be, it is the truth....... more enter.

"taking the rest of us down"?? Always my favorite Chicken Little story.


"Those failing schools are failing not only US students, but immigrant students as well."

I can attest to that first hand...


"The difference is, many Americans can afford to put their kids in private schools, and won't vote for taxes for the public schools, or will vote with their feet by moving to nonimmigrant communities."

And?......

I've worked in public schools, what is your point??

Ever hear of Title I?


"Since education has been a way out of poverty for generations of immigrants, you can bet that today's immigrant children can look forward to having a lot less opportunity than previous generations."

How so??

"What you see in class divisions in countries such as Mexico or Brazil could easily happen here."


AHHHHH, the sky is falling!!!

[moondin]

Well some good news.

I talked to my buddy who's an POE II today and he told me 99.99% of the guys on the force are *against* it, his own agency is *against* it. And most people in gov't are *against* it. But fear not. It's just a piece of legislation a President has the right to offer. There's a 95% chance it'll get nullified in Congress due to all the negative backlash that's already brewing against it.

So i doubt it'll become law.

It was funny hearing illegals getting excited though.

They should concentrate on DEADBOLTING the border and improving security first, cuz as SKS so poetically puts it : "millions more come every day".

-= nav =-

[SKS]

moonie

"It's just a piece of legislation a President has the right to offer. There's a 95% chance it'll get nullified in Congress due to all the negative backlash that's already brewing against it."

Perhaps, but that just means status quo!!

"So i doubt it'll become law."

Thus, nothing gets done. I hope ya'll like status quo!

"It was funny hearing illegals getting excited though."

What is more funny is that nothing is getting done, and those here are still here!!


"They should concentrate on DEADBOLTING the border and improving security first,"

Good idea.

"..cuz as SKS so poetically puts it : "millions more come every day"."

Which is more than poetry, but reality.

[AliBA]

Actually, Bush may have done enforcement a favor by bringing the issue to the public. The reason other immigration laws, such as H1-B, have managed to get pushed through, is largely because the public was unaware of what was going on and how it affected them.

This economic "recovery" is jobless so far, and I strongly believe its benefits are not being evenly distributed, which means a lot of people are hurting or afraid of what's coming. The last thing they want to hear is that 8-12 million illegal aliens will be competing for the jobs available, and will be able to access government benefits legally.

[Paddy]

that's rich coming from d-i-c-k-h-e-a-d SKS.....you are not even close to be in touch with reality

[SKS]

paddy

"that's rich coming from d-i-c-k-h-e-a-d SKS.....you are not even close to be in touch with reality"

How so??

[SKS]

.