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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Exactly, that's the point, when you submit a fraululent birth certificate, for instance, to the Secretary of State to obtain an SSN, you are lying the government!!!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Fraud *is* usually a crime of moral turpitude, however I guess when it is made in connection with fraudulently gaining some immigration or other benefit - that is to say when you lie to the government, rather than lying to private companies (employing you) or individuals.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Observer, R U a lawyer?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I agree that moral turpitude means little when all factors in an individual situation are considered together. Committing fraud is not a minor crime -- whether designated as immoral or not -- and the moral turpitude test may make no difference whatsoever. It is totally misleading to read all the unknowns as passing moral turpitude when it's not always the most important test to determine deportation. In most cases, it's insignificant, and deportation will still apply.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Oh thank God Irene has fallen asleep really really good thanks to that Haldol...thanks jlu

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    ....(passes Irene a dose of Haldol)...

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    To oh my darling, Stick to the law huh? Then I guess we can begin throwing all you "overstayers" out post haste right??

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Oh c'mon Irene, sticking to what law says isn't duping the government, we all know that!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    To as far as __This has just proved beyond a doubt that these people are willing to do ANY THING to dupe this government and the American people. They are of the lowest MORAL character,regardless of what the law says. And I doubt that any of that will work these days. The LOW LIFE President Clinton and his group of lawbreakers are GONE. We now have a President who respects the law. And the American people are waking up to the fact these people are draining our resources dry. 48 States have deficits. Ca, has been overrun and bankrupted. Things will be changing.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Moral turpitude is very important for certain crimes to determine if they'll make the alien deportable and/or inadmissible. Usually a crime which does not involve moral turpitude is not that bad as one which does.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    When you post information concerning "moral turpitude" you are misleading those with questions. Moral turpitude is one sliver of one test of admissability. The fact that something does not affect moral turpitude is not a home free ticket and should not be construed as such. Many crimes of fraud do not fall under moral turpitude but fraud itself can qualify a person for deportation.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    When you post information concerning "moral turpitude" you are misleading those with questions. Moral turpitude is one sliver of one test of admissability. The fact that something does not affect moral turpitude is not a home free ticket and should not be construed as such. Many crimes of fraud do not fall under moral turpitude but fraud itself can qualify for deportation.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    USE OF FALSE DOCUMENTS / FALSE STATEMENTS ON THE EMPLOYMENT ELIGIBILITY VERIFICATION FORM I-9 FORM NOT A CRIME INVOLVING MORAL TURPITUDE

    The false use of false documents and knowingly signing a Form I-9 containing false information is not "false testimony" under section 101(f)(6) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. Furthermore, such actions are not representations under section 212(a)(6)(c)(i) of the INA.

    Section 101(f)(b) of the INA sets forth that a finding of "good moral character" is precluded for "one who has given false testimony for the purpose of obtaining any benefits under this chapter". The Supreme Court has held that section 101(f)(6) of INA does not impose a materiality requirement for false testimony, but noted that such testimony is limited to oral statements made under oath...with the subjective intent of obtaining immigration benefits.

    If false statements are given orally and under oath, they have been held to constitute false testimony within the meaning of the section 101(f)(6) of the INA. But in the case we are discussing the person would not have been giving false testimony for the purpose of obtaining any immigration benefits. In fact, even convictions for falsely representing oneself as citizen of the U.S. have been found not to involve moral turpitude.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    FALSE USE OF SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER NOT CONSIDERED MORAL TURPITUDE

    Use of another's social security card to work and establish credit in the United States, in violation of 42 U.S.C. S 408(a)(7)(B) (1988), and 18 U.S.C. § 1546(b)(3), did not constitute crimes involving moral turpitude, so as to disqualify the applicant from establishing good moral character on a registry application.

    [Beltran-Tirado v. INS, 213 F.3d 1179 (9th Cir. 2000)]

    The Court based its ruling on legislative history and the fact that the Beltran-Tirado's use of the social security number was to "engage in otherwise lawful conduct." When Congress exempted from prosecution for these offenses those who had already been granted amnesty or registry, by enacting 42 U.S.C. § 408(d), it indicated a belief that this conduct was not turpitudinous. See H.R. Conf. Rep. No. 101-964, at 948 (1990), reprinted in 1990 U.S.Code, Cong.and Admin.News 2374, 2653.

    Moreover, the conduct penalized in these statutes was "malum prohibitum", rather than "malum in se." This reasoning applies, as well, to a number of other criminal offenses, but has some exclusions as well. Congress was careful to exclude from the exemption those "who used a false social security number for otherwise illegal activity such as bank fraud or drug trafficking . . . ." [Conference Report at 948, 1990 U.S.C.C.A.N. at 2653.]

    Also excluded were aliens "who sold social security cards, possessed social security cards with intent to sell, possessed counterfeit social security cards with intent to sell or counterfeited social security cards with intent to sell." [see 42 U.S.C. S 408(d)(2)]

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Linda says:

    "A friend of mine is here with a valid employment authorization card. His SSN and resident alien documents are not real."

    Most of illegal aliens buy a set of fake SSN, IDs, and green cards to be able to work. They know it's a crime, but that's the only way they can work. In these cases they don't need any valid EAD whatsoever.

    Leave a comment:

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