American's beheaded in Iraq, claimed for revenge for "humiliation in prison"

[marmaduk]

A little off topic here, but to give a glimpse of the kind of people the soldier has to deal in Iraq:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4953015/

Lets see if a double standard really exist or not. Still waiting for the rest of the world condemnation on this.

[marmaduk]

A little off topic here, but to give a glimpse of the kind of people the soldier has to deal in Iraq:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4953015/

Lets see if a double standard really exist or not. Still waiting for the rest of the world condemnation on this.

[kjv62803]

Of course the rest of the world will not cry out for America..........Look at the atrocities of 9/11 and see how many countries have joined us in the fight against terrorism.

The Islamic radicals who kill in the name of Allah or God or whatever are the enemies of the entire civilized world. When will the rest of the world wake up and become united in this fight????

[porcelain]

The world has already condemned al-Qaeda (I really don't have the time to look up the thousands of quotes but if you search online, they are there, from every single government in the world condemning alQaeda, bin Laden and 9/11). That's why they are called "terrorists" because they are a bunch of violent criminals. They are not a government, have never pledged to abide by the rules of civilization, let alone the Geneva Convention. Therefore, they are called terrorists and not given the same privileges that a civilized government or organization is.

The United States, on the other hand, is a government, not terrorists. It has made an agreement to abide by the Geneva Convention along with certain standards of decency, in exchange for being recognized as a legitimate, civilized body. So when the US decides that instead it wants to throw away those standards, it also throws away its privileges, and is, not surprisingly, condemned. If the US wants to act like al-Qaeda, it must expect that it will be treated like al-Qaeda.
Now, I'm not saying that it is actually acting like al-Qaeda. Certainly what happened at Abu Ghraib, while abhorrent, is not nearly on the same level as beheading civilians or crashing planes into buildings. All I'm saying is that if the US wants to hold itself up as the perfect model of decency and freedom, it must expect condemnation when it acts in an opposite manner.

[marmaduk]

The problem is, the so-called "condemnation" is nothing but token statement by the govt. The general populance in Arab countries are primarily rejoicing and happy in the fact that 9/11 happen. Not to mention there're still denial that Al-Qaida/fellow Arabs did that, and its all but a great plot by the Jews/Mossad.

The Arabs world as well as many other countries are soo "outrage" by the treatment of the prisoner of Americans hand, yet they'll just stand still (and offer some praise) about a human's head being cut off from his body while still alive? Complete hypocracy.

[Michael]

The only thing people on this board will do is to blame America first. There will be no outrage from people on this board That is why I am beginning to oppose immigration. I used to believe immigrants today were like my grndparents but they are totally different. They hate America and are the enemy within.

[Passport Guy]

Speak for yourself MICHAEL. You should be deported along with the rest of your filthy family. PUUUNK !

On a side note, the hell with those Iraqi prisoners. I don't see anything wrong with the way they've been treated. It's disney compared to Saddams ways of doing things.

[porcelain]

Hey, I didn't say the Arab governments aren't hypocrites too. They are tyrants all, even the most "democratic" of them. But the US should be better than that. Because we have taken it upon ourselves to be a shining example of democracy and freedom and decency to the world, invading other countries at our will for what we say is the good of the people, we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard than everyone else. We must show that we are, in fact, better than the tyrants and dictators and terrorists of the world.
I know nothing about those prisoners. Maybe they were innocent civilians, maybe they were common criminals, maybe they were cold blooded terrorists who deserved that treatment and more. I wasn't there, I don't know. But I do know that that is not what my country stands for, that the America that I love has more decency and dignity than that.

[kjv62803]

Porcelain: Marmaduke hit the nail right on the head.....Regarding the token statements made by foreign governments regarding AL Qaeda, terrorists, etc. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!!!

[porcelain]

Absolutely actions speak louder than words. That's why so many people hate the US, because we say that we stand for freedom and liberty and all these wonderful things, but at the same time we invade countries because we feel like it, ignore international law, torture prisoners while talking about how terrible people like Saddam who torture prisoners are (yeah, Saddam was a terrible brutal dictator who tortured people - who we supported and sent money to throughout the 1980's), massacre civilians (My Lai, anyone?), training Latin American death squads, funding future terrorists (hello bin Laden!)...should I go on?
Yes, I would say that actions definitely speak louder than words.

[marmaduk]

Originally posted by porcelain:
Absolutely actions speak louder than words. That's why so many people hate the US, because we say that we stand for freedom and liberty and all these wonderful things, but at the same time we invade countries because we feel like it, ignore international law, torture prisoners while talking about how terrible people like Saddam who torture prisoners are (yeah, Saddam was a terrible brutal dictator who tortured people - who we supported and sent money to throughout the 1980's), massacre civilians (My Lai, anyone?), training Latin American death squads, funding future terrorists (hello bin Laden!)...should I go on?
Yes, I would say that actions definitely speak louder than words.

And for those terrible acts, Americans has apologized profusely and in general, in agreement that those act were wrong. Where else did you see the various high ranking official as well as the president of a country apoligizing for the act of a select few of its citizen? While the Arabs rejoice of the cowardice act. Here's another example. Sadr's militia offered bounty for captured female coalition soldiers, who will be treated as personal *** slaves for him..... How do you supposed to reason with these kind of people?

Yes, American supposedly is the beacon of freedom and is held to the highest standard. But if the enemy is not playing by the rule either, US is foolish to try to play by the book.
Take example in Vietnam, US troops is often strangled by its own regulation to play by the rule of engangement, while the VietCong & NVA uses everything to achieved its objection. You mentioned May Lai, ever heard of ****y trap babies as well? When Nixon initiated operation Line Backer, it bring the NVA back to the bargaining table, which many doubt will happen if it wasn't because their country is reduced to rubbles. Sometimes, there's nothing better to deal with these people than full military prowess.
Take a look at the supposedly 19th hijackers of 9/11. He's been sitting and wasting the taxpayer money in jail while spewing off his hatred of America and make a mockery of the system.

Yes, it'll be much more logical if USA treat Iraqis just like it treat Germans and Japanese after WW2. Two of whom are great allies to USA. But remember, Iraqis/Arabs are not Germans nor Japanese. And from what it appear so far, the same treatment applied to the other two might not applied to them.

[Michael]

See ? Blame America first ! Instead of standing up against communism, fascism and Islam, these people want America to apologize (for nothing) and give away our wealth. They criticize our decisions and justify whatever our enemies do to us. They criticize America for using nuclear bombs on Japan but conveniently forget that Japan attacked us first; they criticize our support of various groups and people but conveniently forget that the alternatives were far worse for both America and for the people in those countries. They live in a fantasy world where violence by our enemies is always justified and whatever America does to protect itself is wrong and any mistake by America, no matter how well intended or inconsequential, is considered a sign of evil. They actually claim that making a guy stand on a box is worse than the mass murder of 3000 people. It is hopeless to argue with sick idiots like this. My point is not to convince these people that America is good; I know it is; my point, on this board is for these people to get out of my country if they do not like it. Just get out. We don't want you here and you are more than unwelcome !

[An_Immigrant]

Michael will be one of the prison guards if he was there. Am I right? Because he think the whole incident was a right thing to do for him. <EOM>

[vierce]

Michael, why don't you get out? For your own good. Just review your survival Russian, take that language CD with you and go to Russia where you may finally get laid - if you are very lucky, of course - and become a much better person.

[porcelain]

the US has not apologized for the vast majority of things it has done, and many of them it has not even acknowledged. And yes, frequently other governments take responsibility for the actions of a few people. Here's one example, just off the top of my head:

http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/eu...rlands.resign/

Just because someone else has done something worse does not make your actions justified. It's like saying "well I only killed one person, and that guy over there killed four, so what I did was okay."
I criticize the actions of my country not because I hate it or think it's bad but because I love it and I believe it should do better. If people never questioned the actions of their government, the United States would never have become a country. Remember how the American Revolution started? A bunch of people looked at their government, said "this is wrong" and did something about it. Questioning the government with good intentions is not unpatriotic, it is patriotism itself.