Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Can we look at reality?

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Can we look at reality?

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_02/b406...hannel_what%27s+next
    Illegals and Business: A Glimpse of the Future?
    At a time of mounting opposition to undocumented workers, Immigration's fierce probe at swift is a sign that things will get tougher for employers
    Sometime soon, perhaps by the end of this month, Christopher Lamb may plead guilty to harboring an illegal alien. Lamb, 37, was a human resources assistant manager at Swift & Co., among the largest beef and pork processors in the U.S. As immigration emerges as one of the most contentious issues of this election season, his case is emblematic of newly aggressive tactics against management by the U.S. Immigration & Customs Enforcement Agency (ICE). "Swift was just the beginning," says Cynthia J. Lange, a partner at Fragomen, Del Rey, Bernsen & Loewy, a law firm specializing in immigration issues. "ICE is looking for the next company. They're looking for brand names."
    For years there has been an implicit understanding among businesses that need workers, illegal immigrants willing to do those jobs, communities that benefit from such commerce, and a government that rarely intervened. Now that understanding has been torn apart. Of 1,500 people surveyed in June by the Pew Research Center, 55% said the most effective way to reduce illegal immigration from Mexico is to increase penalties on employers. In a Democratic Presidential debate in November, Barack Obama said: "An employer has more of a chance of getting hit by lightning than being prosecuted for hiring an undocumented worker. That has to change." All of the candidates, with varying degrees of vigor, have expressed the same sentiment.
    ICE made 863 criminal arrests at companies last year; 59 of those were owners and 33 lower-level managers, most charged with knowingly hiring illegal workers. Two years ago, ICE made only 176 such arrests. Operation Wagon Train"”which included simultaneous raids on six Swift meatpacking plants on Dec. 12, 2006, and led to Lamb's arrest"”was dramatic, public, and the largest worksite sweep in ICE's history. At the heart of the subsequent investigation is a tactic that could become familiar in the years ahead: using threats of jail and deportation to persuade an illegal immigrant to cooperate and inform on a superior. "Usually the way it works is we get a couple of hundred administrative or criminal arrests and a few supervisors," says ICE spokesperson Pat Reilly. "Then we work our way up."
    That's how the agency caught Lamb. After the raid on Swift's slaughterhouse in Marshalltown, Iowa, ICE wired a Mexican line worker who knew Lamb, sent him to Lamb's house, and recorded what it says is an incriminating conversation between the two men. Lamb, through his lawyer, declined to comment. And it isn't clear if he will cooperate with the government as part of a guilty plea. Swift, which in July was sold to the Brazilian company JBS, also declined to discuss the investigation and has not been implicated in any criminal wrongdoing.
    White-collar prosecutions of this kind are difficult, since senior managers and executives rarely involve themselves directly in lower-level staffing. But it might not matter: Already, there are signs that ICE's tactics have made companies reassess their hiring practices.
    SUSPICIOUS DOCUMENTS
    The official investigation into Swift employees began in February, 2006. In routine interviews with people facing deportation, ICE investigators discovered that several had suspect identification documents and held jobs at Swift, Marshalltown's biggest employer. And many of them had given Swift the Social Security numbers of U.S. citizens from Puerto Rico. "That was a red flag for us," says Claude Arnold, a special agent involved in the investigation.
    On Mar. 1 an ICE agent delivered a subpoena to the Marshalltown plant for its I-9 forms, the documents that verify someone's eligibility to work in the U.S. This would not necessarily have alerted Swift that an investigation was under way, since the request to review these forms is fairly common. Swift also had reason to believe it was in good standing with the immigration authorities: It was one of a handful of companies that voluntarily used the government's Basic Pilot Program, which helps employers determine whether new hires are authorized to work and whether their Social Security numbers are valid. The online program (now called E-Verify) has its limits, though. It can detect counterfeit Social Security numbers, but not those that may have been stolen or bought from a U.S. citizen.
    As part of its crackdown, ICE was focusing on identity theft, a felony that was becoming increasingly common among illegal immigrants. And when agency investigators looked over more than 2,100 of Swift's I-9 forms, they concluded that 664 employees were illegal immigrants who had assumed the identities of U.S. citizens in order to obtain employment (some of the victims of the ID thefts had filed complaints with the Federal Trade Commission). According to court documents, Lamb had certified a number of those forms.
    As ICE's investigation continued over the summer, it sent at least one undercover agent into the Marshalltown slaughterhouse. On Aug. 22 the agent recorded an orientation speech that union representative Braulio Pereyra gave in Spanish to about a dozen new employees. Pereyra, 58, was a vice-president of Local 1149, an affiliate of the United Food & Commercial Workers union and a Swift employee. According to court documents, Pereyra told workers how to protect false identities. Giving that advice led to the accusation that Pereyra knew illegals were working at Swift and did nothing about it. He was later charged with harboring illegal aliens.
    Pereyra began his talk by recounting his arrival as an illegal immigrant from Argentina in the 1980s. (He later became an American citizen.) Pereyra, according to the government, then told the employees not to use their documents outside of work and that if they were ever stopped by the police to hand over their real identification. "You can lie to your boss or whomever, but not the police," he said. If the police find evidence of identity theft, "that's a federal offense," he explained.
    Pereyra's attorney, J. Keith Rigg, argues that the charge against his client seems to stretch the common understanding of what constitutes "harboring" an illegal alien. "If we have a very broad-based statute where any kind of conduct that would help someone remain in the country, however indirectly, counts as a crime, then we have a lot of employers who are doing things that could be potentially considered criminal," says Rigg. The case is pending, and Rigg declined to make Pereyra available to comment.
    On Dec. 12, 2006, came the raids on Swift plants around the country. At 7:30 a.m., 200 agents descended on the Marshalltown slaughterhouse. Supervisors shut down production and told everyone to report to the cafeteria. There, the agents, armed with handguns and in many cases wearing bulletproof vests, ordered those working legally to move to one side of the room and those who were not to gather on the other. Standing among the illegals was a line worker named Alejandro Vazquez.
    By 3 p.m., Vazquez and 98 others had been handcuffed and driven away in Homeland Security Dept. buses and vans as family members looked on. A week later, Vazquez was charged with using the stolen identification of a U.S. citizen, a felony that could have put him in jail for a couple of years, followed by deportation. In hopes of getting a better deal, Vazquez decided to inform on Lamb"”a man Vazquez had known for more than a decade.
    According to court documents, Vazquez said he had worked on and off at the Marshalltown plant over the past decade and most recently had been hired in October, 2002, using an assumed identity. Vazquez said he first met Lamb in 1995, when Lamb was his supervisor, and that he'd been to Lamb's home a number of times and had helped put new siding on the house. And he told the investigators he believed that if he spoke with Lamb, the HR manager would rehire him.
    ICE agents provided Vazquez with a valid Social Security card, Texas birth certificate, and South Dakota picture ID in the name of Anthony Gomez. Then they wired Vazquez with a microphone and sent him in to talk with Lamb at his home on Sunday, June 3.
    After greeting Vazquez in Spanish, Lamb asked how he had gotten out of jail. Vazquez said he was awaiting a hearing and in the meantime was hoping to return to work at the plant. Vazquez told Lamb he had bought a Social Security card (for $1,000) as well as a birth certificate (no price was mentioned) and with those was able to obtain an ID card from South Dakota. Lamb looked over the documents and said they appeared legitimate. Lamb told Vazquez he no longer conducted job interviews but offered some advice: Vazquez should know which state his Social Security card came from and say he'd heard about the Marshalltown job while working in South Dakota. Later in their conversation, Lamb said that if for some reason he did have to interview Vazquez, he would be unable to help. He said everyone knew they had worked together and that if he gave Vazquez a job they would be in jail together. Two days later another Swift human resources manager rehired Vazquez.
    When Vazquez returned to Lamb's home on June 25, Lamb expressed nervousness about their previous conversation. Lamb said people at work were asking how Memo (Vazquez's nickname) had gotten out of jail. Many suspected he was helping immigration set a trap. Then, according to the summary of their conversation: "Lamb stated rhetorically, 'If you have problems with me, ****!'" Vazquez assured Lamb he didn't, but Lamb remained agitated. Then, using the Spanish term for the immigration authorities, Lamb asked: "Where's the Migra?"
    On July 10, Lamb was arrested on his way to work. He was taken from his car, handcuffed, and driven to the federal courthouse in Des Moines, where he was charged with harboring an illegal alien and covering up a felony. Then he was released to await his trial. Three weeks later, according to Lamb's lawyer, Christopher A. Clausen, his client was fired from Swift for discussing hiring practices outside the office (a possible reference to the taped conversation). Lamb now works on the production line at a company that makes cardboard containers. His wife remains a Swift employee. Clausen says Lamb is waiting for an offer from the prosecutor and hoping to avoid jail time. As to the question of Lamb's cooperation with ICE, Clausen says: "I can't confirm or deny that."
    Pereyra is still employed by Swift, according to his lawyer. He no longer works for Local 1149, although the union has filed a court brief supporting him. Jill Cashen, a spokesperson for the union, says: "We can't discriminate by asking to see someone's papers. We shouldn't do that, and it's not our legal responsibility. Are we all supposed to be the immigration police?"
    As ICE presses companies more forcefully, employers may find themselves in a bind: scrutinizing new hires with greater care while being sensitive about potentially discriminatory practices. (Swift, in fact, paid almost $200,000 in 2002 to settle a claim that a Minnesota plant had engaged in discriminatory hiring practices against U.S. citizens who looked or sounded "foreign." Swift did not admit guilt.)
    In May, Swift announced the raids had cost it at least $45 million because of the disruption to production and the expense of additional recruiting and training. Arnold, the ICE special agent, says the raids were never about Swift: "Our enforcement action was to address a large number of employees engaged in identity theft who happened to be employed at Swift." But, he continues, "Swift has substantially revamped their hiring practices as a result of the raid. Everyone learns from these cases."

    This is reality - the public is speaking!

  • #2
    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_02/b406...hannel_what%27s+next
    Illegals and Business: A Glimpse of the Future?
    At a time of mounting opposition to undocumented workers, Immigration's fierce probe at swift is a sign that things will get tougher for employers
    Sometime soon, perhaps by the end of this month, Christopher Lamb may plead guilty to harboring an illegal alien. Lamb, 37, was a human resources assistant manager at Swift & Co., among the largest beef and pork processors in the U.S. As immigration emerges as one of the most contentious issues of this election season, his case is emblematic of newly aggressive tactics against management by the U.S. Immigration & Customs Enforcement Agency (ICE). "Swift was just the beginning," says Cynthia J. Lange, a partner at Fragomen, Del Rey, Bernsen & Loewy, a law firm specializing in immigration issues. "ICE is looking for the next company. They're looking for brand names."
    For years there has been an implicit understanding among businesses that need workers, illegal immigrants willing to do those jobs, communities that benefit from such commerce, and a government that rarely intervened. Now that understanding has been torn apart. Of 1,500 people surveyed in June by the Pew Research Center, 55% said the most effective way to reduce illegal immigration from Mexico is to increase penalties on employers. In a Democratic Presidential debate in November, Barack Obama said: "An employer has more of a chance of getting hit by lightning than being prosecuted for hiring an undocumented worker. That has to change." All of the candidates, with varying degrees of vigor, have expressed the same sentiment.
    ICE made 863 criminal arrests at companies last year; 59 of those were owners and 33 lower-level managers, most charged with knowingly hiring illegal workers. Two years ago, ICE made only 176 such arrests. Operation Wagon Train"”which included simultaneous raids on six Swift meatpacking plants on Dec. 12, 2006, and led to Lamb's arrest"”was dramatic, public, and the largest worksite sweep in ICE's history. At the heart of the subsequent investigation is a tactic that could become familiar in the years ahead: using threats of jail and deportation to persuade an illegal immigrant to cooperate and inform on a superior. "Usually the way it works is we get a couple of hundred administrative or criminal arrests and a few supervisors," says ICE spokesperson Pat Reilly. "Then we work our way up."
    That's how the agency caught Lamb. After the raid on Swift's slaughterhouse in Marshalltown, Iowa, ICE wired a Mexican line worker who knew Lamb, sent him to Lamb's house, and recorded what it says is an incriminating conversation between the two men. Lamb, through his lawyer, declined to comment. And it isn't clear if he will cooperate with the government as part of a guilty plea. Swift, which in July was sold to the Brazilian company JBS, also declined to discuss the investigation and has not been implicated in any criminal wrongdoing.
    White-collar prosecutions of this kind are difficult, since senior managers and executives rarely involve themselves directly in lower-level staffing. But it might not matter: Already, there are signs that ICE's tactics have made companies reassess their hiring practices.
    SUSPICIOUS DOCUMENTS
    The official investigation into Swift employees began in February, 2006. In routine interviews with people facing deportation, ICE investigators discovered that several had suspect identification documents and held jobs at Swift, Marshalltown's biggest employer. And many of them had given Swift the Social Security numbers of U.S. citizens from Puerto Rico. "That was a red flag for us," says Claude Arnold, a special agent involved in the investigation.
    On Mar. 1 an ICE agent delivered a subpoena to the Marshalltown plant for its I-9 forms, the documents that verify someone's eligibility to work in the U.S. This would not necessarily have alerted Swift that an investigation was under way, since the request to review these forms is fairly common. Swift also had reason to believe it was in good standing with the immigration authorities: It was one of a handful of companies that voluntarily used the government's Basic Pilot Program, which helps employers determine whether new hires are authorized to work and whether their Social Security numbers are valid. The online program (now called E-Verify) has its limits, though. It can detect counterfeit Social Security numbers, but not those that may have been stolen or bought from a U.S. citizen.
    As part of its crackdown, ICE was focusing on identity theft, a felony that was becoming increasingly common among illegal immigrants. And when agency investigators looked over more than 2,100 of Swift's I-9 forms, they concluded that 664 employees were illegal immigrants who had assumed the identities of U.S. citizens in order to obtain employment (some of the victims of the ID thefts had filed complaints with the Federal Trade Commission). According to court documents, Lamb had certified a number of those forms.
    As ICE's investigation continued over the summer, it sent at least one undercover agent into the Marshalltown slaughterhouse. On Aug. 22 the agent recorded an orientation speech that union representative Braulio Pereyra gave in Spanish to about a dozen new employees. Pereyra, 58, was a vice-president of Local 1149, an affiliate of the United Food & Commercial Workers union and a Swift employee. According to court documents, Pereyra told workers how to protect false identities. Giving that advice led to the accusation that Pereyra knew illegals were working at Swift and did nothing about it. He was later charged with harboring illegal aliens.
    Pereyra began his talk by recounting his arrival as an illegal immigrant from Argentina in the 1980s. (He later became an American citizen.) Pereyra, according to the government, then told the employees not to use their documents outside of work and that if they were ever stopped by the police to hand over their real identification. "You can lie to your boss or whomever, but not the police," he said. If the police find evidence of identity theft, "that's a federal offense," he explained.
    Pereyra's attorney, J. Keith Rigg, argues that the charge against his client seems to stretch the common understanding of what constitutes "harboring" an illegal alien. "If we have a very broad-based statute where any kind of conduct that would help someone remain in the country, however indirectly, counts as a crime, then we have a lot of employers who are doing things that could be potentially considered criminal," says Rigg. The case is pending, and Rigg declined to make Pereyra available to comment.
    On Dec. 12, 2006, came the raids on Swift plants around the country. At 7:30 a.m., 200 agents descended on the Marshalltown slaughterhouse. Supervisors shut down production and told everyone to report to the cafeteria. There, the agents, armed with handguns and in many cases wearing bulletproof vests, ordered those working legally to move to one side of the room and those who were not to gather on the other. Standing among the illegals was a line worker named Alejandro Vazquez.
    By 3 p.m., Vazquez and 98 others had been handcuffed and driven away in Homeland Security Dept. buses and vans as family members looked on. A week later, Vazquez was charged with using the stolen identification of a U.S. citizen, a felony that could have put him in jail for a couple of years, followed by deportation. In hopes of getting a better deal, Vazquez decided to inform on Lamb"”a man Vazquez had known for more than a decade.
    According to court documents, Vazquez said he had worked on and off at the Marshalltown plant over the past decade and most recently had been hired in October, 2002, using an assumed identity. Vazquez said he first met Lamb in 1995, when Lamb was his supervisor, and that he'd been to Lamb's home a number of times and had helped put new siding on the house. And he told the investigators he believed that if he spoke with Lamb, the HR manager would rehire him.
    ICE agents provided Vazquez with a valid Social Security card, Texas birth certificate, and South Dakota picture ID in the name of Anthony Gomez. Then they wired Vazquez with a microphone and sent him in to talk with Lamb at his home on Sunday, June 3.
    After greeting Vazquez in Spanish, Lamb asked how he had gotten out of jail. Vazquez said he was awaiting a hearing and in the meantime was hoping to return to work at the plant. Vazquez told Lamb he had bought a Social Security card (for $1,000) as well as a birth certificate (no price was mentioned) and with those was able to obtain an ID card from South Dakota. Lamb looked over the documents and said they appeared legitimate. Lamb told Vazquez he no longer conducted job interviews but offered some advice: Vazquez should know which state his Social Security card came from and say he'd heard about the Marshalltown job while working in South Dakota. Later in their conversation, Lamb said that if for some reason he did have to interview Vazquez, he would be unable to help. He said everyone knew they had worked together and that if he gave Vazquez a job they would be in jail together. Two days later another Swift human resources manager rehired Vazquez.
    When Vazquez returned to Lamb's home on June 25, Lamb expressed nervousness about their previous conversation. Lamb said people at work were asking how Memo (Vazquez's nickname) had gotten out of jail. Many suspected he was helping immigration set a trap. Then, according to the summary of their conversation: "Lamb stated rhetorically, 'If you have problems with me, ****!'" Vazquez assured Lamb he didn't, but Lamb remained agitated. Then, using the Spanish term for the immigration authorities, Lamb asked: "Where's the Migra?"
    On July 10, Lamb was arrested on his way to work. He was taken from his car, handcuffed, and driven to the federal courthouse in Des Moines, where he was charged with harboring an illegal alien and covering up a felony. Then he was released to await his trial. Three weeks later, according to Lamb's lawyer, Christopher A. Clausen, his client was fired from Swift for discussing hiring practices outside the office (a possible reference to the taped conversation). Lamb now works on the production line at a company that makes cardboard containers. His wife remains a Swift employee. Clausen says Lamb is waiting for an offer from the prosecutor and hoping to avoid jail time. As to the question of Lamb's cooperation with ICE, Clausen says: "I can't confirm or deny that."
    Pereyra is still employed by Swift, according to his lawyer. He no longer works for Local 1149, although the union has filed a court brief supporting him. Jill Cashen, a spokesperson for the union, says: "We can't discriminate by asking to see someone's papers. We shouldn't do that, and it's not our legal responsibility. Are we all supposed to be the immigration police?"
    As ICE presses companies more forcefully, employers may find themselves in a bind: scrutinizing new hires with greater care while being sensitive about potentially discriminatory practices. (Swift, in fact, paid almost $200,000 in 2002 to settle a claim that a Minnesota plant had engaged in discriminatory hiring practices against U.S. citizens who looked or sounded "foreign." Swift did not admit guilt.)
    In May, Swift announced the raids had cost it at least $45 million because of the disruption to production and the expense of additional recruiting and training. Arnold, the ICE special agent, says the raids were never about Swift: "Our enforcement action was to address a large number of employees engaged in identity theft who happened to be employed at Swift." But, he continues, "Swift has substantially revamped their hiring practices as a result of the raid. Everyone learns from these cases."

    This is reality - the public is speaking!

    Comment


    • #3
      Almost totally missed your newsworthy read.
      This article would have been a great post under the american exploitation thread.
      The public is speaking, but now there is resistance also from the public. I believe this raid was addressed in Proud usc thread called Stop the raids. Some of the american citizens feel their rights were infringed upon.

      Also to let you know... the world news thread is available for posting any relevant world news. Thanks and keep us informed.

      Comment


      • #4
        much like hardened criminals that apologize during their hearing (only AFTER they have been caught and found guilty), this eleventh hour statement from Swift is disingenuous...'everyone learns from these cases..." what a useless piece of diatribe....these clowns at Swift knew they were hiring illegals...and then when they are caught, the blame game begins along with the phony act of contrition....it would be far simpler to remove ALL sources of illegal immigration, namely, ALL illegal immigrants,-- then, there would not be such a large pool of people to exploit....

        Comment


        • #5
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's how the agency caught Lamb. After the raid on Swift's slaughterhouse in Marshalltown, Iowa, ICE wired a Mexican line worker who knew Lamb, sent him to Lamb's house, and recorded what it says is an incriminating conversation between the two men. Lamb, through his lawyer, declined to comment. And it isn't clear if he will cooperate with the government as part of a guilty plea. Swift, which in July was sold to the Brazilian company JBS, also declined to discuss the investigation and has not been implicated in any criminal wrongdoing.
          White-collar prosecutions of this kind are difficult, since senior managers and executives rarely involve themselves directly in lower-level staffing. But it might not matter: Already, there are signs that ICE's tactics have made companies reassess their hiring practices. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

          Excellent article. It's really disgusting how the powers that be of these American corporations that were built on the backs and prospered as a result of hard work and dedication of American workers will do anything for a dollar. Corporate profits were at a record hight 40% in 2007, while wages of American workers have been significantly depressed as a result of cheap illegal alien labor. It amazes me how big business thinks the American economy is supposed to somehow thrive when it's been propped up by shell game lenders in the housing sector and false numbers reported with regards to the rate of unemployment. What they fail to report are the numbers of people who have exhausted their benefits and are no longer counted. At the rate that everything is collapsing I'm willing to bet the percentage of unemployed Americans is more like 10% rather than the 5% recently reported.
          Wolves Travel In Packs
          ____________________

          Comment


          • #6
            Previous amnesty of illegal immigrants brought more abuse
            Paul Weyland


            Those that proclaim and advocate amnesty for the 12 to 20 million illegal aliens alleged to be in the United States are either remarkably unperceptive or more than likely, pursuing their own self interest.

            Amnesty advocates can never explain how the process stops. They don't like to be reminded that the 1986 amnesty of 2.7 or 3 million resulted in the illegal-made-legal moving on and leaving their menial jobs and being replaced by the "new illegal alien" in greater numbers, no doubt in large part with the expectation of another future amnesty.

            A great lesson is in one of the fairly recent but rare Immigration and Customs Enforcement employer investigations in the Swift packing case that took place in part in Texas. A Texas manager of the packing plant was revealed to have been a 1986 illegal alien who was granted amnesty. What did he do for employees at his plant? Why he [allegedly] hired illegal aliens to work at the plant of course. What a surprise!


            Unfortunately even if the border could be completely closed off tomorrow, something that is virtually impossible, a great number of people would still become illegal by virtue of overstaying their visa issuances just as the hijackers of 9/11. This fact alone is the reason amnesty is not prudent and only intensifies the effort to come to the United States. The only answer then becomes an aggressive enforcement policy, something I will address and elaborate on at a later date.

            Rest assured, that if amnesty was granted tomorrow, the same people crying for the illegal alien masses today would then immediately ask why the new illegal was left out the day after amnesty was given, the week after, the month after, the year after and on and on and on ad nauseam. Also be assured that if those that want perpetual amnesty had to pay out of their own personal funds to support the "illegals," rather than through our collective taxes, there would be a lot of hands in pockets and whistling in the air as they furtively tried to find the nearest exit. Instead, the costs of illegal aliens are absorbed through your taxes and mine.

            In reality, Third World people by and large understand from their own governments what a "fix," a "bribe" or "mordida" means. That is their interpretation of amnesty. Allowing people to illegally enter the country, use counterfeit documents and all the while receive health care, receive an education for the children as well as being eligible for tax refunds does not really make for great character development in granting legal status and in eventually becoming a potential candidate to be a citizen of the United States.

            Those that say illegal aliens are merely present day immigrants are only trying to carry out their own agenda, usually of a political or economic nature. The "real immigrants" of yesteryear did not receive entitlements such as hospitalization and welfare eligibility. The "real immigrants" of today have to meet certain standards and qualifications.


            I worked at the U.S. embassy in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, many years ago and met one of the greatest and most patriotic advocates for the USA though he was never allowed to become a citizen of the United States. He was a white Russian who escaped the communist takeover of his country. He worked with the United States Information Service and would have loved to immigrate to the U.S. and become a citizen. He was otherwise eligible to immigrate but for one very big reason. He had a child [that would have been in need of special health services] that by law made the family likely to become a public charge and therefore prevented his lawful entry into the U.S.

            Ellis Island for many years also turned away many desiring to come to the United States. Those that had diseases and were found to have criminal records were turned away. The Statue of Liberty symbol isn't thought of in terms of exclusion, but it has always been about legal admittance. Anything else is a sham. Anything resembling amnesty with regard to immigration translates to "shamnesty"

            http://www.news-leader.com
            Wolves Travel In Packs
            ____________________

            Comment


            • #7
              that is my point too....having illegals pay some silly 'fine' is no different than having one of them attempt to bribe an official....$2000 for a green card or visa? No way. Many of these illegals paid thousands to be smuggled into this country; another two grand won't slow them down....and I don't believe that they will 'pay back taxes' as well (besides, how is their 'under the table' wages supposed to be accurately calculated in order to figure what 'tax' they owe? There would be even more fraud as these scumbags 'under-estimate' their illegal earnings....a monetary fine won't impede them....make them pay in the currency most dear to them -- TIME. Boot their butts or give them the chance to self-deport, face a two year bar (criminal aliens get the permanent boot), and then they can apply for (and QUALIFY for) any kind of visa they wish.....but they must do more than 'touch base' (like some ill-conceived game of 'kick the can')....these people have been scamming US taxpayers since the day they crawled out of the Rio Grand or stepped off an airplane and lied to our border officials....enough is enough...we should not reward cheats and liars -- if we do, we will be perceived as weak and an even bigger wave of illegals will head this way.

              Comment


              • #8
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Someone12:
                that is my point too....having illegals pay some silly 'fine' is no different than having one of them attempt to bribe an official....$2000 for a green card or visa? No way. Many of these illegals paid thousands to be smuggled into this country; another two grand won't slow them down....and I don't believe that they will 'pay back taxes' as well (besides, how is their 'under the table' wages supposed to be accurately calculated in order to figure what 'tax' they owe? There would be even more fraud as these scumbags 'under-estimate' their illegal earnings....a monetary fine won't impede them....make them pay in the currency most dear to them -- TIME. Boot their butts or give them the chance to self-deport, face a two year bar (criminal aliens get the permanent boot), and then they can apply for (and QUALIFY for) any kind of visa they wish.....but they must do more than 'touch base' (like some ill-conceived game of 'kick the can')....these people have been scamming US taxpayers since the day they crawled out of the Rio Grand or stepped off an airplane and lied to our border officials....enough is enough...we should not reward cheats and liars -- if we do, we will be perceived as weak and an even bigger wave of illegals will head this way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Amen to all that you have stated. ITA. For all intents and purposes for the past 7 years we haven't had a President or any form of organized government. Just a bunch of partisan bickering, under the table corporate lobbyist deals being struck, foot dragging and shell games on both sides of the aisle all to the detriment of American sovereignty.

                Adding to what you said:

                Our borders have been deliberately left wide open by Senor Boosh. His family shares a long history with members of the cartels and the Mexican government. All of this has been in the works since Reagan was in office (google CFR (Council on Foreign Relations and check out the membership). The first step to appeasement of the Open Borders Lobbyists was Clinton signing NAFTA into law. Clinton's election delayed the process somewhat. Boosh, Sr. was supposed to get 2 terms and then Jr. was supposed to pick up where daddy left off. The fact that it didn't occur that way led to in-fighting for control between the Bush's and the Clintons. Anybody who believes that Hurricane Katrina formed the alliance of Bush Sr. and Bill Clinton is truly naive. Ever hear of the SPP or the NAU?

                I first noticed the cultural and quietly administered dual language shift in our country back in 1998. I thank God everyday for those LaRaza sponsored marches with the waiving of the Mexican rag, thrown in to tick off the most tolerant of Americans. If not for the sheer arrogance of it all most of America would still be asleep and the takeover/reconquista would be close to completion by now. I've posted these links before but in case anybody missed them:

                http://www.elandar.com/bush/amigos.html
                http://corp.matt.org/index.php?optio...d=13&Itemid=50
                http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=57203
                http://files.meetup.com/571113/NAU_timeline_Rel2.pdf
                http://noworldsystem.com/what-is-the...merican-union/

                Compare the names of the players.
                Wolves Travel In Packs
                ____________________

                Comment


                • #9
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's how the agency caught Lamb. After the raid on Swift's slaughterhouse in Marshalltown, Iowa, ICE wired a Mexican line worker who knew Lamb, sent him to Lamb's house, and recorded what it says is an incriminating conversation between the two men. Lamb, through his lawyer, declined to comment. And it isn't clear if he will cooperate with the government as part of a guilty plea. Swift, which in July was sold to the Brazilian company JBS, also declined to discuss the investigation and has not been implicated in any criminal wrongdoing.
                  White-collar prosecutions of this kind are difficult, since senior managers and executives rarely involve themselves directly in lower-level staffing. But it might not matter: Already, there are signs that ICE's tactics have made companies reassess their hiring practices. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


                  Now the cooperatives will get a greencard eventually based on new U-visa/t visa .

                  I can agree with them being granted a special visa for cooperating. but I think it should be discretionary and not just give it out to anybody becuase they were victims of a crime.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In this instance I agree only because there was more than a little self sacrifice involved in this particular instance.

                    While I agree that ICE is making a small dent in the situation, until we have a wall to keep them out once they are deported, it's pretty much a moot point. I recently read that on average the majority of illegal aliens rounded up by ICE have already served time, and re-entered an average of 3 or 4 times.

                    O/T I've been wanting to ask you if you have narrowed down your choices for President? You like I realize that the choice we make this time may be the final nail in the coffin of the US.
                    Wolves Travel In Packs
                    ____________________

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have been reading up on Ron paul . I am in agreement with many of the things he says.

                      america cannot let Hillary happen!!! and she will act just like bush. dictatorship

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Great minds think alike. He is my first choice. It's time to go back to basics. Duncan Hunter would be my second choice. The MSM is doing their best to shut them completely out of earshot. "Faux" News didn't even include Ron Paul in their debates but he let them know exactly how he felt.

                        Being an Illinoisan and a black person, I am proud of Barack Obama's accomplishments, but he is far to liberal and both he and Shrillary are in the back pocket of LaRaza.

                        If Shrillary wins, I think I'll seek asylum in another country. Both she and Bill are truly getting on my nerves with all the whining. They remind me of illegal aliens, the sense of entitlement without heavy lifting is mind boggling. Those fake tears yesterday? Comedic gold. I was ROTFLMAO at her.

                        IF she beats Obama in the New Hampshire primaries she gets to live another day. It will be interesting to see how she handles Barack and what she does with regard to S. Carolina.
                        Wolves Travel In Packs
                        ____________________

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          hey monkey a s s

                          Comment

                          Sorry, you are not authorized to view this page

                          Home Page

                          Immigration Daily

                          Archives

                          Processing times

                          Immigration forms

                          Discussion board

                          Resources

                          Blogs

                          Twitter feed

                          Immigrant Nation

                          Attorney2Attorney

                          CLE Workshops

                          Immigration books

                          Advertise on ILW

                          EB-5

                          移民日报

                          About ILW.COM

                          Connect to us

                          Questions/Comments

                          SUBSCRIBE

                          Immigration Daily



                          Working...
                          X