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Tighter Border Has Illegal Immigrants Risking More Perilous Routes : washingtonpost

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  • #16
    It is not the american people dying in the desert. Should not Mexico be the ones trying to stop the tragedies from occurring?
    "Should.. should not.." this sounds like "God should not have created Man to suffer, but keep Him in Paradise Forever".

    Now, we are serious, grown adults here and we understand that not everything is as it should be, so we try to think what practically can be done to make it better.

    If Mexico is not stopping this from occuring, as it should, what are we supposed to do then?
    Watch indifferently as people die while crossing illegally?


    ok Im puzzled.. What do you mean. if that number is 2 million people that cant be stopped.. then what are u proposing as legal options?
    I mean everything possible must be done to prevent the illegal crossings in the first place.
    If it's impossible to prevent it 100%, then, whatever number you can't prevent from coming you should allow to come legally, since they will come anyway - but illegally and risking their lives in desert.
    Why not issue "Permanently Temporary Visa" for those people, for instance?

    Af ..I think you could propose a plan for the Mexico economy & government. Instead of F them .. Fix them. That would be more appropriate than US making provisions dont you think?
    I don't wanna F them, it's in fact SunDevilUsa who says he has no regard for Mexican State and I meant he can say all he wants about Mexican State , but the subject matter here is that people die while crossing the border illegally and something must be done to stop it , one way or another.

    I would gladly propose a plan for Mexican economy & government , but I am not familiar with Mexico, I never lived there, never studied anything about it (other than general facts) and I am not working in World Bank where I could make such proposals and fix their economy too.

    Comment


    • #17
      This is why a guest worker is needed...No matter how strong the borders are enforce, if you do not have a legal way for workers to come in and reject coyotees offers, then you will see people dying in the desert.

      People might not think its the US responsibility to make sure that doesnt happen, but i do think that if they were guest worker in place that permits people to come in, do the dirty jobs, then go back home, then stuff like this would be diminished.

      Bush need to make people understand that, by creating a guest worker permit, we will no longer have death at our door and we will put those coyotees out of business because why would you risk your life trying to cross throught the desrt when you could just apply for the guest worker and catch a bus to the US and work....So i see this as a moral issue and also a humatitarian issue.


      The guest worker is actually the best border enforcement..even stronger then the wall of china...The wall of china will not stop people from coming, it will only increase death because people will even get more desperate to get in and will attempt and take even deadlier routes to get in..

      You need to look at the immigration problem throught jesus's eyes and not just be angry and say, "lets throw them all out and built a wall so that they wont come.

      Comment


      • #18
        "Should.. should not.." this sounds like "God should not have created Man to suffer, but keep Him in Paradise Forever".

        Man would not be suffering had he not crossed the border..oops I mean disobeyed. He would still be living in Paradise. again consequences of bad choices.

        If it's impossible to prevent it 100%, then, whatever number you can't prevent from coming you should allow to come legally, since they will come anyway - but illegally and risking their lives in desert.
        Why not issue "Permanently Temporary Visa" for those people, for instance?


        Permantly Temoraey Visa???????/ and what the falafel is that (WTFIT)

        I mean I dont know anything about Mexico structure either except that it is grossly corrupt. I mean I have heard stories of that when the men get older,(like 45) that they are replaced in their jobs by younger men. Often wonder why there are so many older mexican men working and being in the usa.

        Does anybody out there know what the structure/problem is in Mexico & what the fix may be?

        Comment


        • #19
          Man would not be suffering had he not crossed the border..oops I mean disobeyed. He would still be living in Paradise. again consequences of bad choices.
          Joke you may, but practically what you say is useless.
          That's what I meant.

          Permantly Temoraey Visa???????/ and what the falafel is that (WTFIT)
          In fact it's not falafel or whetever you are pleased to call it, but just one suggestion how to address the issue.
          Based on following facts:

          1. According to some , X number of people will come to America no matter what you do to protect borders in future.
          (I personally would prefer to think that it is not so and that Borders CAN BE SEALED completely, but what if I am wrong? )

          2. If they will come anyway, it is better that they come LEGALLY as opposed to ILLEGALLY + risking their lives in desert.

          3. Many people will oppose granting LPR status just to anyone whom we can't prevent from coming here.
          Yet, some will come here no matter what and we want them to come LEGALLY.



          So, what is solution, how NOT to give LPR yet allow those who will come anyway to come LEGALLY?
          The only think I could think of was tamperproof visa that would allow for unlimited visits to US without the right to settle in US permanently. Almost like VWP, with an option to work may be (option to work would be subject to approval by DOL, based on current economic conditions).

          If you have any better ideas, feel free to share.

          IE

          Comment


          • #20
            Jean.. you are placing the responsibility on US for a solution, when in fact it is the Mexican government that should be sharing the expense and responsibility.. dont you think?

            Bush need to make people understand that, by creating a guest worker permit, we will no longer have death at our door and we will put those coyotees out of business because why would you risk your life trying to cross throught the desrt when you could just apply for the guest worker and catch a bus to the US and work....So i see this as a moral issue and also a humatitarian issue

            Just how many guest worker visas will be needed to satisfy to stop the unlawful crossings?


            I just feel like what is being proposed is analogous to how Us doctors treat disease.. They dont look for the source of the illness, just give medicines to relieve symptoms/ remedy the pain or make test results look ok. Hence the real problem or source of malady continues until individual dies.

            One must diagnose the source of the problem and prescribe for the cure, not the symptoms. Naturopathic ,Holistic, ayurvedic and Chinese medicine all work this way.

            Let us stop using medicines and bandaids.. Time to call the surgeons for permanent fix.

            Comment


            • #21
              Yes, let's build huge brick ovens before winter comes and throw some illegals there to save on our heating costs

              Besides, the smell of illegal barbeque will go long way to persuade others not to come

              Comment


              • #22
                AF
                yes I agree likeaa VWP .. and I think for all countries should be able to come whoever and whenever as long as they meet background check criteria should be able to come here to visit.

                the right to work.. thats another story. need solution for that but will have to include all countries to be fair... not just mexico.

                Comment


                • #23
                  To me, a legal way for migrants to come in is the best border enforcment...

                  The anti-immigration supporters doesnt understand that as long as the US economy is booming, people will always attempt to come here because it gives them the best opportunity to feed their families...When you desperate, you will do anything and crossing the border is in fact, a small task when you are starving..

                  I dont care how long the wall is and how big, this will only make them look for other ways to crossing..Some might go undergroud, some might try to hide inside cars, under trucks, between train wagon en route to the US and many other ways...So no matter how big the wall is, they will come.

                  The guest worker program would relieve our border patrols from all those people trying to sneak in because, those people would come the legal way instead of the illegal way, and you will see a huge decrease in illegal crossing..

                  People have to think about it, it will also free up the border patrol to concentrate on the drug smugglers instead of wasting time with a hungry migrants that just wants to get in because he/she's starving...Lets go after the drug dealers that smuggle weapons and drugs in the US, instead of the poor mexican migrant.


                  Which is more dangerous? a smuggle/terrorist or a migrants that just want a job to feed his family?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    yes I agree likeaa VWP .. and I think for all countries should be able to come whoever and whenever as long as they meet background check criteria should be able to come here to visit.

                    No, 4now, what you suggest may appear FAIR , but in fact is impractical and not correct way to solve the problem.

                    You don't have to extend what I suggested to all countries of the world, only those whose Citizens persistently come here crossing the border illegally.
                    Great majority of those are Mexicans and Citizens of neighboring Latino countries, so practically it would serve the purposes of sealing the borders and preventing illegal crossings if the PT Visas I suggested were extended to nationals of Mexico and few other South American countries - those who keep crossing and dying in desert most.
                    OTMs or OTLs would then not be able to continue illegal crossing - if Border Security was significantly beefed up and Mexicans had other routs to come.
                    OTM/Ls would then had extremely high chance of being apprehended and with "no catch-and-release" program already in effect you would almost totally eliminate those entries.

                    You could, in theory, extend PT Visa to nationals of all other countries but under current circumstances I think it would be extremely difficult to pass the law in Congress extending VWP kind of program to even few more countries, let alone the entire World..

                    You don't want to obstruct practical solutions to illegal border crossings in the name of FAIR game, now do you?


                    the right to work.. thats another story. need solution for that but will have to include all countries to be fair... not just mexico.
                    As to right to work, I suggested that it was flexible option to be approved by DOL, subject to economic conditions at the time the work permission is requested.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Sorry... Fair is Fair. Lots of other hungry starving people in other countries that would like to come here also.

                      Do you have any idea how many other countries around the world come to central america /mexico to be able to sneak in over the border? I can tell you. a lot! a lot! It is the door .

                      Again... How many guest visa are going to be issued???? and why be prejudiced against who gets it?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Fair is Fair, but I don't think that Obstructionism equals Fair, unless you mean FAIR

                        I don't know from how many other countries people come to Central America to cross through the border, but I recall report of DHS Secretary Chertoff to the Senate and according to him the proportion of OTMs was so small in comparison to Mexicans, that he said it was feasible to allocate enough resourses to detain and subsequently deport all OTMs ( I don't remember the exact figure, but the percentage of OTMs intercepted among border crossers is in very low % range).

                        Mexicans can be sent back (if intercepted), immediately since there is no need to detain, process and deport them to far away country.
                        It's just that the number of Mexicans crossing the Border illegally is so high and the number of guards(relative to border crossers) so low that latter practically can't intercept and catch every Mexican who tries to cross the border.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Precisely.

                          the number may be small in comparison to mexico number, but that number per se is not necesarily small so to speak. Prior to 911, they used to just detain them, then let them go , and they would stay here in this country.

                          lots of middle easteners entered EWI way, and africans, and asians. Most of them were smart enough to take advantage of 245I thru marriage when it was offered.


                          so what about these others when they illegally cross. do they get legal temp papers too?

                          And again. What is the proposed number of guest worker or PTV that should be available?

                          1 million, 2mil 500,000 or what???? throw a credible number out please jean or AF

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            so what about these others when they illegally cross. do they get legal temp papers too?
                            Under what I propose there would no longer be illegal border crossings. Well, can't guarantee ABSOLUTE ZERO , but certainly the FLOW would stop.

                            And again. What is the proposed number of guest worker or PTV that should be available?
                            Do simple math.

                            1. How much resourses can possibly be allocated to Border (Guards, Military, Fence, Technology and etc.)

                            2. How many would that allow to prevent from coming?

                            3. Estimate how many would still make through? (Use math plus get the advise of expert/veteran border protection/enforcement officials)

                            Above estimate should be the number of PTVs granted.

                            Note: I don't suggest PTV = Guest Worker, my plan is more conservative, it suggests that PTV may apply for work permission (for the time of admission under PTV) but it would be up to DOL to grant or refuse such permission, based on economic conditions at the time request is made.

                            The woman whose child died in desert wouldn't probably need Guest Worker Visa, if all she wanted was to let the father of child to see the child.
                            She could just come on PTV and go back.

                            Also, year or years from now, if economic conditions adversely change, less PTVs would be granted work permissions by DOL.
                            And if economic conditions worsened, they wouldn't be able to find jobs and work anyway.
                            Couple it with strong work-enforcement and you get what you need.

                            Comment

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