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  • #16
    and just how many USC programmers are out of work or doing something else because a flood of foreign programmers are getting H1b visa jobs for 2/3 of the American salary??/ Best and brightest? Or cheapest and desperate?

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    • #17
      Or maybe, because the educational standards here are sooooooooo loooooooooooowwwwwwww that we need the "best and brightest"...from another country.

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      • #18
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by marmaduk:
        That or companies simply wish to cut cost by paying for cheaper foreign programmers to replace US programmers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
        Companies are in the business to make a profit. What you fail to realize is that the company is not just competing with competition down the street, in the same city, in the same state, or even in the same nation, it is also competing with businesses in another country. So, it has to do what it must in order to continue making a profit and keeping the stockholders (publicly traded company) or shareholders (privately held companies) happy.
        "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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        • #19
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Someone12:
          and just how many USC programmers are out of work or doing something else because a flood of foreign programmers are getting H1b visa jobs for 2/3 of the American salary??/ Best and brightest? Or cheapest and desperate? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
          The best computer programmers actually come from India. And making %35000 here is equivalent to living like a king in most countries. This is because the cost of living is much lower than her, but the US is also much lower than Tokyo, Stockholm, or Seoul, Korea.

          So much again for your IQ being above what again?
          "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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          • #20
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hudson:
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Someone12:
            and just how many USC programmers are out of work or doing something else because a flood of foreign programmers are getting H1b visa jobs for 2/3 of the American salary??/ Best and brightest? Or cheapest and desperate? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
            The best computer programmers actually come from India. And making %35000 here is equivalent to living like a king in most countries. This is because the cost of living is much lower than her, but the US is also much lower than Tokyo, Stockholm, or Seoul, Korea.

            So much again for your IQ being above what again? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

            And the facts to back your statement are? Get over yourself, Hudson.

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            • #21
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hudson:
              Companies are in the business to make a profit. What you fail to realize is that the company is not just competing with competition down the street, in the same city, in the same state, or even in the same nation, it is also competing with businesses in another country. So, it has to do what it must in order to continue making a profit and keeping the stockholders (publicly traded company) or shareholders (privately held companies) happy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

              I'm not arguing that company need to make money or maintain profit. I'm arguing against Mr. Gates hypocritical argument about "shutting them out and discouraging those already here from staying and contributing to our economic prosperity", when his company is one of the leader in moving those jobs overseas.

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              • #22
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hudson:
                The best computer programmers actually come from India. And making %35000 here is equivalent to living like a king in most countries. This is because the cost of living is much lower than her, but the US is also much lower than Tokyo, Stockholm, or Seoul, Korea.

                So much again for your IQ being above what again? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                And the facts to back your statement are? Get over yourself, Hudson. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Yeah, I want to hear Hudson's argument as well. Coders and programmers are two different things.

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                • #23
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
                  And the facts to back your statement are? Get over yourself, Hudson. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                  Well, considering you are intellectually lazy, lets look at the world's most expensive places to live, according to this site:
                  1. Moscow
                  2. Seoul
                  3. Tokyo
                  4. Hong Kong
                  5. London
                  6. Osaka
                  7. Geneva
                  8. Copenhagen
                  9. Zurich
                  10. Oslo, New York (tied)

                  I did make the mistake of Stockholm, but for the most part, I was accurate.

                  Now for India, there is an article called, "International Trade In Services: The Case of India's Computer Software" which makes the claim about India's infrastructure, culture, and educational system that produces some of the brightest minds in the computer specialists field. And since you did not graduate from MIT, UCSD, or Stanford, I know this article will use words, phrases, and sentence structure beyond our level of understanding.
                  "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hudson:

                    Now for India, there is an article called, "International Trade In Services: The Case of India's Computer Software" which makes the claim about India's infrastructure, culture, and educational system that produces some of the brightest minds in the computer specialists field. And since you did not graduate from MIT, UCSD, or Stanford, I know this article will use words, phrases, and sentence structure beyond our level of understanding. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Hudson, I've been reading about Bill Gates on this issue for the past year at least. And I've read numerous other articles about U.S. students lagging behind in the hard sciences. I think they were predicting a shortage in the future (from U.S. graduates). I was wondering, isn't Bill Gates offering grants for U.S. students to major in the technical fields? I was in a work-related class where we had about ten American guys and three guys from India. This was only basic refresher math to gear up for a few trig problems. The Indian guys were finished in a whiz and our guys were having difficulty. I do believe they have a stronger background. Isn't it India and China that produces the strongest in the tech field?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by explora:
                      Hudson, I've been reading about Bill Gates on this issue for the past year at least. And I've read numerous other articles about U.S. students lagging behind in the hard sciences. I think they were predicting a shortage in the future (from U.S. graduates). I was wondering, isn't Bill Gates offering grants for U.S. students to major in the technical fields? I was in a work-related class where we had about ten American guys and three guys from India. This was only basic refresher math to gear up for a few trig problems. The Indian guys were finished in a whiz and our guys were having difficulty. I do believe they have a stronger background. Isn't it India and China that produces the strongest in the tech field? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                      He does through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation as well as other countries/regions including China, India, Africa, Latin America, and Europe. And remember, Warren Buffet, one of the richest people in the world, gave $34.7H to the foundation. Bill Gates and several other IT Chairpersons have criticized the US education system. For me, at least I graduated before the decline beginning in the 1990's.

                      China currently produces 600,000 engineers every year and India currently has 250,000 per year. Most Americans want the quick buck and are not taught even the fundamental mechanics of finance. Our failure is none but our own choosing. I still hope and pray that the educaton sytem will get serious, like the KIPS program, but alas, politics will always get in the way.
                      "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The National Math and Science Initiative will expand proven education programs to strengthen U.S. Competitiveness.

                        Mission: math and science

                        In the global competition to educate students in math and science, Americans are losing ground.

                        Out of 32 countries ranked between 2000 and 2003, the United States droped to 5 places to 20th in undergraduate science degrees earned, and slipped 6 spots to 26th in under-graduate math degrees earned.

                        The outlook is also concerning. The 2005 National Assessment of Educational Progress showed tha almost one third of American eigth graders are failing to achieve even a basic competency level in mathematics. The National
                        Academies has described the situation as a "gathering storm."

                        Poor performance in math and science threatens the United States'long-term competitiveness and fails to equip young people to succeed in an increasingly technology-driven world.

                        It also undercuts American companies which depend on technological innovation. To produce and deliver energy supplies safely, reliably, and affordably, ExxonMobil employs more than 14,000 scientists and engineers. We will require more such talent in the future.

                        It is time we add to the number of U.S. math and science graduates, not subtract.

                        That's the mission of the National Math and Science Initiative, a non-profit organization created to improve math and science education in America's schools by scaling-up proven programs to the national level.

                        As a founding sponsor, ExxonMobil is today announcing our commitment to contribute $125 million to support the National Math and Science Initiative. These funds will help reach the goal of providing 15,000 new teachers with math and science skills by the year 2020. They will also help upgrade math and science programs in hundreds of school districts nationwide. It is an investment with the potential to immpact and inspire an entire generation of young Americans.

                        Lifting math and science education standards -- rising above the "gathering storm" -- is a mission for all Americans. With support for the National Math and Science Initiative, we are beginning to fulfill that mission today.

                        Further information is available at www.exxonmobil.com/mathand science, and on the NMSI organizations's website at www.nationalmathandscience.org.

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