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  • #16
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Murray Dobbin </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Macy,
    What does the 1985 plane crash have to do with the current PM of Canada?

    Please cite source on which plane crash you are talking about?

    Second, please explain what a terrorist activity has to do with the current PM.

    And Murray Dobbin exemplifies what Joseph Stalin said about investigative journalists, "Useful Idiots."
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

    Comment


    • #17
      Macy,
      Are you talking about the 1985 Air India plane craash which 323 people were killed?

      From CBC:
      "Anant Anantaraman lost his wife and two daughters in the Air India tragedy. Both his little girls, he says, were very talented violinists. For years after the crash Anant found it impossible to listen to music. Each June he marks the anniversary of their death ... and each June he hopes the nation will remember this was not a foreign tragedy ... most of the victims were Canadians.

      "I want the public to remember these people," Anantaraman told CBC News.

      "I would like to see Canadians understand that this is not a local tragedy, it's not a tragedy that happened to me and a few people. I want them to understand it's a national tragedy, which has never been sort of resolved."


      Mourners gather on the coast of Ireland to pay their respects to Air India victims.
      Anant gave up on the promises of Canadian police to bring those responsible to justice. In 1998, he said, the RCMP told him that charges were imminent."
      CBC Report

      So Macy, you are going to mock the deaths of 323 people who were killed including 2 Japanese baggage handlers who also died while transporting baggage that contained explosive deices from Vancouver, Canada? Given the sad history of the investigatino that has resulted in nothing, this is the next logical step in the investigative process.
      "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

      Comment


      • #18
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As far as truth goes, "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached. God is not pleased by blood, and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death." Compare that statement with "a 20-year-old girl named Nazira Zayn al-Din wrote a book called Unveiling and Veiling, saying she had read, understood and interpreted the Holy Koran. Therefore, she said, she had the authority and analytical skills to challenge the teachings of Islam's clerics, men who were far older and wiser than she. Her interpretation of Islam, she boldly said, was that the veil was un-Islamic. If a woman was forced to wear the veil by her father, husband or brother, Zayn al-Din argued, then she should take him to court. Other ideas presented by her were that men and woman should mix socially because this develops moral progress, and that both sexes should be educated in the same classrooms. Men and women, she said, should equally be able to hold public office and vote in government elections." The second quote comes from a 20 year old girl who usurped the reigning clerics in what is now Syria while the first quote comes from Pope Benedict XVI from a speech in Germany. There was no bloodshed, no calling for her execution, no calling for the family's execution when Nazira made those comments; but with the Pope's quote in the context of reason and faith, you had an elderly nun killed, several churches burned, and the calling for the Pope's execution by Muslims. Those actions proved the Pope was correct about Islam, to some degree. Is that truth or are you going to be offended and offer a "tantrum" again.

        Although I am not Catholic, his mesaage as a greater whole was correct in asking faith and reason when religion is used to justify bloodsheed. Christianity has been no different than other major religions such as Confuscism, Taoism, Budhaism, etc., but has grown up, so to speak, the the modern world. But that is not the case with Islam today where Nazira would have been executed for what she said or thought. So, has Islam lost reason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Science has empirically proved, beyond any reasonable doubt, that all major modern monoteistic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam ) are mythology , a sort of moral philosophy - they are thoroughly man made products, products of human imagination and reasoning, with inevitability of all the faults and failures of mortals.
        There can be no truly educated person today who may seriously beleive that either Bible or Koran is a word of God, or that God had really chosen Moses or Mohammad as his prophets or that Jesus is really the Son of God.

        To say that Islam or Koran has discerinbly Evil elements contained in it - is to state the obvious.

        To issue death threats or to murder anyone for their stated opinion - is to show crude barbarity of Middle Ages.

        I believe Time is not far when there will arise out of all this nonsense a natural yearning of people to end this fanatical adherence or even abolish the religion that causes it .
        A new Concept of Reasonable and Good will arise ,a Concept that won't need a false justification under pretence of "God spoke to me and said so to me", but one which will instead find it's foundation and justification on broader, truly empirical knowledge accumulated by whole mankind in millenias (and thus in more profound reason).



        IE
        ___________________________________

        [COLOR:BLUE][B]When the creations of a genius collide with the mind of a layman, and produce an empty sound, there is little doubt as to which is at fault.

        One day it will have to be officially admitted that

        Comment


        • #19
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IMPENETRABLE:
          Science has empirically proved, beyond any reasonable doubt, that all major modern monoteistic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam ) are mythology , a sort of moral philosophy - they are thoroughly man made products, products of human imagination and reasoning, with inevitability of all the faults and failures of mortals.
          There can be no truly educated person today who may seriously beleive that either Bible or Koran is a word of God, or that God had really chosen Moses or Mohammad as his prophets or that Jesus is really the Son of God. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
          Again, you are obfuscating the differences and similarities between religion and mythology, IE. Religion is defined as a belief concerning the supernatural, deity, or devine, and the moral codes, practices, values, and institutions associated with such belief. Mythology refers to a collection of stories about people usually ocncerning their origins, history, deity, ancestors and heroes. And although religion can and does use mythology to help explain or interpret the value belief structure within the context of religion, they are distinctly different. In academia, mythology refers to the nature of the account as being perceived as sacred or "deep" in meaning by its audience. There does exist similariites and differences between mythology and religion. What seperates religion apart from mythology is the essence of faith, which cannot be defined or proven by science. Science deals only with the carnate, not the incarnate. Furthermore, science and religion has had a symbiotic relationship from a historical perspective because religion gave the scientists the moral code of what should and should not be done in science. Religion and Mythology
          Religion, Mythology, and Folklore

          Finally, I take it you got your sole source on this from "Religion, Coming of Age" by Roy Wood Sellars. If this is the case, then you only have scratched the surface of what has been plaguing science and religious scholars for eons, IE&gt;
          "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

          Comment


          • #20
            1. The word mythology (Greek: μυθολογία, from μυθος mythos, a story or legend, and λογος logos, an account or speech) literally means the (****) retelling of myths – stories that a particular culture believes to be true and that use supernatural events or characters to explain the nature of the universe and humanity.


            2. Myths are narratives about divine or heroic beings, arranged in a coherent system, passed down traditionally, and linked to the spiritual or religious life of a community, endorsed by rulers or priests. Once this link to the spiritual leadership of society is broken, they lose their mythological qualities and become folktales or ***** tales.[1] Not every religious narrative is a myth however; unless it is deeply rooted in tradition, it may also be trivial pious anecdote or legend.

            3. Myths are often intended to explain the universal and local beginnings ("creation myths" and "founding myths"), natural phenomena, inexplicable cultural conventions, and anything else for which no simple explanation presents itself".

            4. Myth is defined as stories that are important for the group whether or not it is objectively or provably true.


            5. Joseph Campbell often made the statement "Mythology is popularly defined as 'other peoples' religions'...but actually religion is misinterpreted mythology".



            From online source


            IE
            ___________________________________

            [COLOR:BLUE][B]When the creations of a genius collide with the mind of a layman, and produce an empty sound, there is little doubt as to which is at fault.

            One day it will have to be officially admitted that

            Comment


            • #21
              They no longer call Bush the Devil these days. They now call him Satan.

              Comment


              • #22
                After reading the book "State of Denial" written by a well known and respected writer, the more you guys would believe this Bush is indeed a Devil.

                Comment

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