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  • #31


    • #32
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jeff:
      Verbalist - You can try to put any spin on it you like, illegal aliens are criminals. Ask any immigration judge (the fact immigration judges / immigration jails exist should be a clue for you).

      Do you see Homeland Security handing out green cards to illegal aliens? Do you wonder why? They are illegal. Criminals.

      If you still don't understand, start at the top of the post again, and read your way down. (Do this over and over and over again, until something clicks)

      Your opinion on how things "should be" do not translate to fact or law.

      BTW, I'm still laughing at your post, you must feel very embarrassed being sooo wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Jeff, if I might ask, what makes you the resident expert on these matters?


      • #33
        People who want to take advantage of other people ARE criminals.

        Capitalism is criminal thing.

        Communism is criminal thing.

        Any other f_king_ISM is criminal thing.


        • #34
          Illegal aliens are criminals! Really? Since when?

          Let's turn back the hands of time just a little bit. The date was December 16, 2005. The House of Representatives, 109th Congress. 239 Ayes, 182 Nays. Bill passed. Sponsored by Rep. James Sesenbrenner (R-WI), H.R. 4437!

          This particular bill was titled: Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005.

          One of the bill's provisions (which is very relevant to this thread's topic) is: "Section 203 that creates a new federal crime of "illegal presence" – defined broadly, as any violation, even technical, of an immigration law or regulation, even without any intent to violate the immigration laws, making every immigration violation, however minor, into a federal crime."

          On January 27, 2006, this bill was read twice and referred to the Judiciary Committee, and now languishing on its death bed. Because the bill has no hope to become law, it will be stricken out of legislative books after two years. The clock is ticking. This bill will be cleared on December 16, 2007.

          I was scratching my head because, wait, criminals, as far as I know, ought to be arrested, detained, charged, tried, and if convicted, punished. Then why do we let the 12 to 20 million of them loose? They're everywhere, not just in meat packing plants.

          Enforce the full force of the law. Enforce! Enforce! It could be fun. Wait, what? No law to enforce? Is that the reason why the irate and fuming Sensenbrenner tried to come up with a law that would "criminalize" those millions?

          Oh, yeah, now I got it. No law, so create one to criminalize these illegal aliens, so meaning, without such a law, they couldn't be called criminals. Looks like a simple logic to me.

          So, the sweeping statement that "Illegal Aliens Are Criminals" for me amounts to a "prejudice" minus any basis in law, in fact, and in any principle. This was what I said.

          Okay, how is prejudice defined? It's a: "preconceived judgment or opinion; or an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge."

          And then I scratched my head some more because of this:

          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4now:


          [quote]There is where "prejudice" comes in, minus any basis in law, in fact, and in any principle. Amen![quote]

          There is no ETHNIC prejudice involved. Please support your statement or is this just personal opinion?

          Yes there is prejudice against Undocumenteds!
          But the prejudice is not an ethnic one.

          Undocumented = Undocumented. Asia, Canada, Mexico, Ireland, Jamaica, South America,Russia, poland and the list goes on and on from all over the world.

          If you want to come to usa.. come in inspected and in a legal way </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

          ETHNIC? ETHNIC? ETHNIC? Did I read it right? Who mentioned anything about ETHNICITY? For sure, it wasn't me!

          I used prejudice in its wider meaning that "to criminalize illegal aliens without basis in law, in fact, or in principle" amounts to a "prejudice" or a "prejudgment."

          ETHNIC? Haha! Please don't cramp what I said in a narrow receptacle that you yourself created. I wanted and intended it to be wide. Really, honestly.

          This reminds me, yeah, about your penchant for what's narrow. For what's shallow. And for what's both narrow and shallow this time around.

          I know you will respond. I just have one wish to make. Please don't make me scratch my head some more.


          • #35
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"><span class="ev_code_BLUE">I used prejudice in its wider meaning that "to criminalize illegal aliens without basis in law, in fact, or in principle" amounts to a "prejudice" or a "prejudgment."</span>." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

            Well Dear I was sure you were meaning ethnic because so many here on the board accuse of racist bias. I didnt think you meant predjudice as a broad meaning , as it is clear and simple to understand... and like i said.. support your statement. It clearly maps out all three of the elements above that you describe. What part of title 8 section 1325 do you not comprehend ?? Im sure.. even a fifth grader would understand

            Are you telling me honestly that you do not have a prejudice against undocumented alien boundry crossings?(by sea, land or air)?
            Do you not have any brothers or sisters waiting to come here in a legal way by following the rules?
            keyword here is honestly.

            Well.. I prefer to know a little bit about the people stopping by my house to visit me. Impromptu is even ok.... but dont break into my house at any time.


            [quote]So, what's to argue about? The simple fact that these illegal aliens, despite the extensive propaganda, are NOT criminals but just "undesirables". There is a huge difference between being "undesirable" and a "criminal".[quote]

            Verby..I am sure that you dont mean this as it came out. I certainly do not view undocumented as undesirable. Some of them sure are undesirable.. the pedophiles, murderers, armed robbers etc... But the others , those that are educated, some non educated, some skilled and non skilled are good hardworking and very nice people. My only problem is that they "jumped the line" into the club and refused to show any ID... and even worse.. now they want a full membership... for all their friends and family too.

            <span class="ev_code_BLUE">A quick note to 4now: Remember the old adage: Nullum crimen sine lege?</span>

            yes I do.. but I do not feel it applies to this. and again.. I refer you back to this portion of sec 1325:

            (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, <span class="ev_code_RED">for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. </span>

            (b) Improper time or place; civil penalties Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of - (1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or (2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. <span class="ev_code_RED">Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.</span>

            To me this translates to punishment for a crime.


            • #36
              You do it without fail. At least you're being consistent. You made it much shallower and narrower. You're sure that's what I meant? Another reckless prejudgment. I don't even know how to respond. Might as well scratch my head to sleep!


              • #37
                ok babe.. I know its late.. but as you can see my eyes dont blink anymore... all i do now is blow smoke.


                • #38
                  RN: Illegal aliens are criminals! Really? Since when?
                  ------So, RN, I guess you should let all the immigration jails know this so that they can close and all workers and the people being held there can all go home..LOL...moron...Laws are already on the books, illegal aliens are criminals.

                  ProundUSC: Jeff, if I might ask, what makes you the resident expert on these matters?
                  ---Common Sense


                  • #39
           (Third paragraph):

                    "... Critics of the agency still called the report disappointing, contending that it watered down recommendations and ignored the most serious allegations of abuse, which they said included physical beatings, medical neglect, food shortages and mixing of illegal immigrants in administrative custody with <span class="ev_code_RED">criminals</span>. ..."

                    NOW I'M CONFUSED!!! I thought they ALL were criminals! Jeff says so!...


                    • #40
                      "Critics of the agency"......." said this. Of course critics would say this.

                      The law says they are criminals. Illegal aliens are criminals.


                      • #41
                        "Illegal alliens are criminals. Illegal alliens are criminals. Illegal alliens are criminals. Illegal alliens are criminals..."

                        Hope you're not staring at the wall while you keep repeating this to yourself. Maybe you should study and try to comprehend the difference between detention centers and jails, between administrative custody and punishment, between undocumented immigrants and criminals. I know this in no easy task for a close-minded person, though.

                        FYI, when the Border Patrol apprehends an undocumented entrant, they release they the very same day in most cases, UNLESS THE ALIEN HAS A CRIMINAL HISTORY/OUTSTANDING ARREST WARRANTS. If they are "OTM" (Other Than Mexicans, southern border only) then they have to wait for 2-3 days in a DETENTION CENTER.

                        ICE agents can't do that, since the aliens they apprehend are usually faraway from the border, so they have to take them into ADMINSTRATIVE CUSTODY and take them to DETENTION CENTERS while they await for deportation. Those are the "JAILS" you talk about.

                        Now, if ALL illegal alliens are criminals, WHY DO THEY RELEASE them within hours of apprehension? Aren't criminals supposed to be kept in jail? Please try to answer that in a coherent way, not repeating "Illegal alliens are criminals. Illegal alliens are criminals. Illegal alliens are criminals. Illegal alliens are criminals...".


                        • #42
                          The law is the law...

                          For one example, Shoplifters can be released in hours. Are you suggesting they are not criminals?? LOL.

                          Do I really need to give you the definitions of jail/detention/illegal/crime/criminal/illegal alien/etc ???

                          Get a clue.


                          • #43
                            Read Slower... The info. below was already posted in this topic.

                            Immigration is under federal jurisdiction.

                            Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code,is Federal makes any violations/crimes committed under that code a Federal crime/offense.

                            Read it all again until you clue in.
                            Finally get it?

                            Here's your reward:

                            Instead of helping out criminals, why not give advice to people that are doing it the legal way, as sad and as useless as yours and some other's advice might be. Also, if someone (who is trying to immigrate legally) asks for advice, why not give it to them, and then give them the reference where you found this makes it a lot more believable. Although no one should take anyones advice without confirming the info is actually valid. My advice and posts are backed up with facts. Yours are based on opinion on how you think things should be.


                            • #44
                              My final comment on this:

                              NOT ALL illegal immigrants are criminals; NOT ONLY illegal immigrants spend time in immigration detention centers.

                              If you doubt this, ask Mike2007. He spent several weeks (months?) in a detention center, being a LEGAL IMMIGRANT. Furthermore, he was sent to Mexico, being a Jordanian Citizen, and I believe he's still there.

                              Of course, with your logic, if he was detained and thrown in jail he MUST be a criminal.

                              I don't expect you to understand this. Like I said before, it's not easy for a close-minded person to accept facts that prove them wrong. Won't be wasting my time anymore. Keep staring at that wall...


                              • #45
                                I didn't write the laws. If you have a problem with them, contact your elected official.


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