...

[Antifascist1]

..believes its possible somewhere in the universe (UFOs?). Oh, he also believes in ancient civilizations who lived on earth millions of years ago, much more advanced than we are today. He also doesnt believe in evolution.

Looks like we have something in common with your EX, with undisputable difference being that I never wanted to bang you

I specifically quoted above statements, since I find them incredibly shallow (though not surprised to hear from you )

1. I am not a fan of UFOs and think it's total waste of time to guess what UFO is if it even exists, but HOW ON EARTH can you state with certainty that in entire infinite (at least almost an infinitely large ) Universe there is no possibility for existence of advanced life, say somewhere billions of light years away?
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
(I have read and studied in Astronomy schoolbook all the c.rap about "impossibility" of such advanced life beyond Earth, but reasoning behind such categorical conclusion was APPALINGLY SHALLOW, in fact not much different from yours).



2. As to Ancient Civilizations..
Before just couple of hundred years ago, until archeologists digged the earth in Mesopotamia and Egypt, no one in West had any true evidence of AC existing there a few thousands of years ago.
The only reference to past was Bible and Herodotus.
But now they have piles of evidence and careful studies revealed much of what noone before could have guessed.

So, how do you know if tomorrow some archeologist won't dig 1000 feet deep somewhere in America and won't find the evidence of even more advanced civilization that may have existed 20000 years ago?

I am not suggesting that it will happen, I simply don't know, but how could you be so CERTAIN that something you can't conceive of today can't be uncovered tomorrow???
How shallow !!

3. 600 world scientists had signed a petition recently , openly stating that Darwinian theory of evolution and much of modern evolutionary theories based on it must be discarded or radically modified based on latest evidence gathered through various researches and advances in science.
How could you possibly argue against those latest discoveries and facts???

Your shallowness is getting tiresome after all..

But you know what?

I wholeheartedly welcome your right to speak out your mind - no matter how shallow it be!!


Regards,

IE

[Antifascist1]

no words there AF, we'd have to begin all over again and I am too tired of it.

Sounds more like you have nothing to say.

A petition? LMAO.

Call it "a letter", what do I care?
The fact and substance remain.

Theoretically yes everything is possible. Practically, scientifically, no, it isnt.

You contradict yourself here.

Every great scientific discovery was at first "impossible".
As a matter of historical fact, existence of such scientific discoveries prove their very possibility.

The earth's outer geological surface has been studied carefully with the technology we have today...

When did scientists "carefully stuudy" ALL the strata* on the surface of Earth??????
When did archeologists dig every square inch on the surface of the same????????
When???????
According to you there should be no more archelogical searches nor archelogists, no scientist in search of anything beyond of what is known.

Spanish Inquisition would be proud of you!!!!

I guess I have to shift my thesis that only Americans are uneducated. It's most of the earth's population, I am afraid to say.

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT !!!



_______________________

strata* - In geology and related fields, a stratum (plural: strata) is a layer of rock or soil with internally consistent characteristics that distinguishes it from contiguous layers. Each layer is generally one of a number of parallel layers that lie one upon another, laid down by natural forces. They may extend over hundreds of thousands of square kilometers of the Earth's surface.

[Antifascist1]

To compare Archeology and Search of Ancient Civilizations to Astro-Physics - that is far beyond funny !
To compare the measurements (of speed, location and etc.) made based on spectral light of distand celestial objects captured by highly advanced telescopes to discoveries of evidence of unknown cultures by archaeologists ??

In latter case I was NOT speaking of tools used to analyze the gathered evidence , but of discovery of evidence per se !!

And it is an undisputable fact that you can't apply the same methodology of simply "straing" into Heavens to gather the evidence about unknown Ancient Civilizations, Cultural and Historical past of Earth that may be covered by thousands of feet of Oceanic surface !

The POSSIBILITY of discovery of unknown yet to us and more advanced civilizations of past will perennially be there - for as long as entire surface of planet Earth, including what is under the bottom of the Oceans, had not been dug up - inch by inch....

It is tragic that you simply lack brains !

[Antifascist1]

You know better your EX so I won't speak of him, but as to ME let me set this straight:

I am not convinced that there are "fairies".
I never suggested such a thing.
What I know for fact , though, is that every great scientific discovery in past was deemed "impossible" before it was actually made and recognized.
Countless HISTORICAL facts of such events PROVE that what may seem "impossible" today may become a routine section of textbook tomorrow.
No one can dispute that it has always happened so in past and no one in his right mind can claim that this trend has come to an end (it would be like claiming that we know ALL about entire Universe, including TOE).

And when it comes to archaeology, just as with other natural sciences, it is better to keep in mind how little we know, so that the fire of Prometheus can be kept alive or else we have to decree the death sentence on advancement of true Science - and that, I hope, will never happen !



P.S. Reading your posts I can repeat what I said to you before:

Spanish Inquisition would be proud of you !!!

[dragonlady]

The whole science fiction genre is very interesting because of the tremendous imagination surrounding the stories and films. Star Trek, in particular, caused many scientific investigations and some of the technological ideas have actually been incorporated into our everyday lives. Captain Kirk and his crew had cell phones long before the general public had access to them!!

There are many things in our world we do not understand and are not always explained by science. The military (both Russian and American)have delved into psychic experiments to find new methods of warfare. We are still looking for the fountain of youth and the search for Atlantis continues.

I hope those people with 'magical' beliefs never give up. What dull world we would have if the magical belief systems died. In many ways, for many people, these ideas give hope and inspire thought. Think of all the great discoveries that never would have been made if people did not wonder and question. Even Columbus defied the current 'flat world' theory of his time to travel to a new land. What would have happened if he had stayed home?

Long live the magical adventurers - at the very least, they can make us laugh!!

[Antifascist1]

"Magical belief systems" and "superstitions" have nothing to do with true spirit of Scientific Search and Discovery.


____________________________________



Only those who realize the immense efforts and, above all, the
devotion which pioneer work in theoretical science demands, can grasp the
strength of the emotion out of which alone such work, remote as it is from
the immediate realities of life, can issue. What a deep conviction of the
rationality of the universe and what a yearning to understand, were it but a
feeble reflection of the mind revealed in this world, Kepler and Newton must
have had to enable them to spend years of solitary labour in disentangling
the principles of celestial mechanics! Those whose acquaintance with
scientific research is derived chiefly from its practical results easily
develop a completely false notion of the mentality of the men who,
surrounded by a sceptical world, have shown the way to those like-minded
with themselves, scattered through the earth and the centuries. Only one who
has devoted his life to similar ends can have a vivid realization of what
has inspired these men and given them the strength to remain true to their
purpose in spite of countless failures. It is cosmic religious feeling that
gives a man strength of this sort. A contemporary has said, not unjustly,
that in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are
the only profoundly religious people.


***


The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science.
He who knows it not and can no longer wonder, no longer feel amazement, is
as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle. It was the experience of
mystery--even if mixed with fear--that engendered religion. A knowledge of
the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the
profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to
our reason in their most elementary forms--it is this knowledge and this
emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in
this alone, I am a deeply religious man. I cannot conceive of a God who
rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we
are conscious in ourselves.


***



Academic chairs are many, but wise and noble teachers are few;
lecture-rooms are numerous and large, but the number of young people who
genuinely thirst after truth and justice is small. Nature scatters her
common wares with a lavish hand, but the choice sort she produces but
seldom. We all know that, so why complain? Was it not ever thus and will it
not ever thus remain? Certainly, and one must take what Nature gives as one
finds it.



Albert Einstein.
The world as I see it

[Kumna]

Quote from Iperson "It is truly laughable to hear a PhD believe in UFOs and Martians. Ok, this was my boyfriend, ex boyfriend, with two PhDs, in math and computer science and an ex pilot and he watches Startreck, Star Wars etc and believes its possible somewhere in the universe. Oh, he also believes in ancient civilizations who lived on earth millions of years ago, much more advanced than we are today. He also doesnt believe in evolution. He thinks an extraterrestial forms of life came in a UFO and planted life on earth.
And why does he believe that? Because he never had physics or biology. He never read a single book in his life except for science fiction of course."

Iperson, based on your posts you do not seem to be a believer of science as you claim. You believe in todays scientific laws, hypotheses and theories. In short, you are a lay person who just consume scientific findings. Scientists said XYZ is true, you believe XYZ is true. Period. There is nothing wrong with that. However, a true believer of science should understand the process of establishing a scientific theory, hypothesis or law. I hope you do not mix these three concepts. To be on the safe side, I will give you some basics:

Scientific theory: an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. Note that one scientist cannot create a theory. s/he can only create a hypothesis.

Hypothesis: educated guess based upon observation. It's a rational explanation of a single event or phenomenon based upon what is observed, but has not been proven. Most hypotheses can be supported or refuted by experimentation or continued observation.

Scientific law: is accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true. For instance the law of gravity.

Now, lets go back to your boy friend statement and your assumptions. You assumed he never had a physics or biology course. This is obviously not true. He may not have taken higher level physics classes but you cannot get a PhD in mathematics without knowing the existence of physics. You should commend him because he dares to think and to challenge established scientific theories. Without people like him, science would be stagnant and hence obsolete.

I will close my comments with the reactions some bold people got in their endeavors:

" There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home"-President, Chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.

"Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?"-Warner Brothers, 1927.

"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible"- President Royal Society, 1895.

"Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil? You're crazy."-Drillers who Edwin L. Drake tried to enlist to his project to drill for oil in 1859.

"Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value."--Professor of strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre (France).

"Everything that can be invented has been invented"- Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899.

"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction".-Professor of physiology at Toulouse (France), 1872.

"640K out to be enought for anybody."-Bill Gates, 1981.

So next time, before you jump the gun, think twice. Do you want to be a consumer of scientific products? Fine! You can believe whatever science comes up with. But for science to progress and feed your hungry mind, we need thinkers.

Peace.

[dragonlady]

Most of the things/ideas that inspire us and give us joy or a sense of awe have nothing to do with scientific thoughts or theories. Watching the sun rise or set over the Grand Canyon, seeing the miracle of a baby, seeing a flower bloom, watching a child discover the world .... and so many other things are what it really is about. All the science in the world can't give us the living emotions which make life a blessing.

[Antifascist1]

Those whose acquaintance with
scientific research is derived chiefly from its practical results easily
develop a completely false notion of the mentality of the men who,
surrounded by a sceptical world, have shown the way to those like-minded
with themselves, scattered through the earth and the centuries. Only one who
has devoted his life to similar ends can have a vivid realization of what
has inspired these men and given them the strength to remain true to their
purpose in spite of countless failures.


Albert Einstein.
The world as I see it

[Kumna]

Iperson,

No, you are not alone. There are many people like yourself. You know how they are called ? "Full of themselve".

You say evolution is not a theory, it's a fact. Uhm, what is the difference between theory and fact? Assume I never went to school, I never heard of these two concepts and I came to you to be enlighted: can you break them down to me like you would to a 5 years old?

[dragonlady]

Where did I say that Startrek 'discovered' cell phones??

Have you read Issac Asimov? Great scientist - wonderful books.

[Antifascist1]

Isaak Asimov is one of the few really worthy of reading Sci-Fi writers.

One of the most brilliant men ever lived !

I used to read his books when I was 10-11 years old ("I Robot" collection and others).

Not long ago, about 4 years ago, I have loaned from library his "Autobiography", written before his death in early 90s.

What a brilliant man!!

I liked most of all the part where he straightforwardly and honestly admitted of being extremely intelligent, super-smart man !!!!!


Long Live the memory of Isaak Asimov !!

Another Great man.. another Shining Light on our Path called Life...

Great Man!


-----------

BTW, one of the guys who watched Startreck is employed by private, $ multibillion Space exploration company and works there trying to realise his dream(inspired by what he saw in the movie). This is a FACT.
The guy was on public radio (NJ FM 93.1) along with his boss , few days ago.
So, dragonlady is partially right.


As to evolution...

Iperson, read my reply to you under "Quest of Genius" thread..

Good Night!

IE