...

[Pegasus]

Come to my dental office and while you are laying down i will fix your teeth.

[Antifascist1]

Nah, don't need dental care at the time - I do brush my teeth every day !

[Pegasus]

Well maybe more than once a day might help!! And add some mouthwash you stinkin foreigner!!

[marmaduk]

Since you've no problem dishing out USA, how about giving a glimpse of what so great about your own country? I thought I asked you this before and you simply evade it. Not proud of it or something to hide perhaps? Then again you are here instead of back there...

Heh, 2 bachelors degree..

[Antifascist1]

Humble AF??
Don't you ignore our humblest of all Pegasus???


As to education, mine is in Arts (movies), Political Science and in Economics.

I never show off my academic background - every time I walked into classroom I knew my teachers weren't nearly good enough to teach me.
And I know that I had good teachers, by any standards...

NO ONE can teach a GENIUS.
But GENIUS can learn a lot, from anyone.

AF

[Antifascist1]

Bunuel, Bergman, Fellini, Bertolluci, Pazalini, Coppola, Parker, Scorcese.. to name few..

Name of Kusturica is familiar but I never watched any of his movies.

This is immigration forum, not place to name my favorite movies

...I watched so many...... I forgot more than most ever watched....

Email me at solaris633@hotmail.com if you want further discussion of the subject with me
(and no, I am not single, not looking to bang you - for intellectual exchange only).


ImmortalE

[Antifascist1]

LMAO!

oK, I'll write you email.

Funny, isn't it - I actually don't want to bang you and I am a straight male nevertheless
!

Talk to you then,

IE

[Antifascist1]

I know, you just want to bang me intellectually.

That would be too easy !

[dragonlady]

Actually, statistically out of the people who graduate from High School, the top 20% go to college. Of that group, 10% graduate. Of the 10% who actually graduate with an undergraduate degree, 10% will continue their studies. In the end, approximately 2% of the population obtains a Ph. D.

But college is not for everyone and graduating from college does not guarantee anything. Many people get technical degrees or certificates. A mechanic or a plumber does not need a Ph.D. but aren't we happy when we find a good one. Education is not really valued in this country - sports and other non degreed activities take precedent over education.

And many many successful people either do not have or did not finish a college education.

It doesn't matter how smart you are, or how smart you think you are - it is what you do with what you have that counts.

[Kumna]

My small take on this issue.

First of all, I am an immigrant with huge admiration for this country. For an immigrant to diss the host country is just a reflection of his/her own stupidity. Why? The logic is very simple. I can understand when an american born citizen disses his/he own country. That's fair. I dont think one chooses the country to be born in. Now, once you are born there and you dont like what you see, you can either fight to change it or emmigrate to a different country. However, a reasonable person who chooses to move to a different country should take time to observe that country and weight the decision before making the move. Immigrating to a different country and dissing it is like regretting your immigration decision. In other words, you feel like you have made a bad choice. So, dont diss USA, but beat yourself up for not being wise enough to know what you wanted and aspired to before you came to USA.

As far as education goes, the statistics you have given may be plausible, but I personally would not make the same sense of it.

It's true education is very valued in this country. But dropping out of high school is not necessarly correlated with stupidity. The flaw in your logic is your understatement of the intelligence level of people who drop out of high school or who do not need to reach Ph.D. The education system has the advantage of diversifying the risk of lifetime failure. Once you go through it, chances are you will get the means to survive in life (food, clothes, houses,...). This same advantage happens to be a disadvantage for other people. Going through the education system also implied that you will be increasing your chances of living an average life. For some people, education is too slow for them to reach their goal. They hence choose short cut. Of course, that implies taking a much higher risk, because if they do not succeed they will have a very limited number of choices. I think either way is a personal choice (although many people obtain all of their degrees based on the social expectation, not their own choice). I honestly praise people who choose to drop out of school to speed up their life. Trust me, you did not need 24 years of schooling to learn how to be a good dentist. Ask yourself, if you had started earlier in your life just learning about dentistry, where would you have been by now? Like CEOs, policitians, inventors are the finest social proucts of the school system, so are the celebrities, sportmen and sportwomen for people who choose the other way around.

So, going back to the situation: more american kids are dropping out of high school. Ok! Does it mean more american kids are stupid or the education system has become much slower for newer generation?

The future wont obviously be pretty if the trend continues. Inviting more immigrants is a temporary solution; but who knows if the desire for poeple to come to this country will stay strong? A long term solution would be to update the education system to adopt its speed to that of the new generation.

I hope this helps.

[Antifascist1]

There is no disrespect in speaking the truth.

I agree with Kumna 100% when he says "For an immigrant to diss the host country is just a reflection of his/her own stupidity".

If you are an Immigrant and DIS-respecting AMERICA as a Country then WHAT BUSINESS DO YOU HAVE STAYING IN AMERICA !!!???

I also think it's an act of COWARDICE to NOT speak TRUTH and to NOT point out to the facts of disrespect against Immigrants that we sometimes observe on this forum from certain Individuals.

TO LOVE AND RESPECT AMERICA IS TO LOVE WHAT IT'S BEEN FOUNDED ON AND WHAT IT STANDS FOR, IT'S IDEALS OF FREEDOM AND JUSTICE FOR ALL, IT'S CONSTITUTION AND IT'S BRAVE, ENTREPRENEURAL SPIRIT - THOSE ARE THE VALUES THAT MAKE UP AMERICA AND THOSE WE SHALL ALL RESPECT !!!


____________


P.S. As to Education it's a matter of domestic policy, just as immigration, health care and etc.

Everything should be done to the effect of increasing the efficiency in use of resourses and overall wellbeing of the People of this Great Country that we all share.

[Antifascist1]

Education is not an end in itself. It's a tool to achieve certain ends and there are many.

Let us list just a few:

in economics it allows for more efficient use of resources;
a person, if his/her learned skills are in demand, can "sell" the latter in exchange for monetary compensation, which translates into better lifestyle (in terms of material posessions, status in society and etc.); it can also broaden the mind, make one a better individual.


Now, keep in mind that too many highly edicated people in absence of corresponding demand would produce detrimental results - it would be bad for the future of those people ,would be a waste of resourses and therefore bad for economy and everyone.
When there are hundreds of thousands of graduates from law and medical schools and a lot less ratio of demand for the latter, some graduates will ultimately end up doing anything but practicing law or medicine.
And this is a waste of resources.

Society needs only so many highly educated people as it can sustain to put into good use.



But , do we at least need most people to posess High School diplomas?

According to statistics most jobs, even low end jobs, require today the High School diploma.
And certainly the minimum education should help people to have better judgement of things, just as it's absence supposed to do the opposite.

So WHY do kids drop out of High School and WHY most of the jail population are former High School drop-outs?

Now, this is a more complex question than most of you realize.
WHY do SO MANY tee-ns drop out of High School?
I suggest it is because there is a CONFLICT OF VALUES and Society REFUSES to see it for what it is.
CONFLICT OF VALUES is when kid strongly believes that belonging to a street gang, selling drugs and even going to prison promises them more secure, satisfactory and pleasant lifestyle than graduating from High School and gettting a low-paid job.
Or may be the kid simply DOESN'T BELIEVE that High School dimploma is of any value at all.
Don't be mules, adults, don't look at things from your own perspective only, try to penetrate into the world of those kids, try to BE those kids for a moment.

Now, how do you reverse these trends among the youth?

I may sugget that before you try to force those kids graduate from High School, you try to think of what prevents them from doing so.
And try to eliminate the obstacles, eliminate the conflicts.

How could it be achieved?
That's a tough question.
I don't have an answer for it and will be glad to hear anyone who does.

But one thing we all can do is to look back into past decades and see at which point was our education system better, when were more kids more willing to do right things, what has changed since then, what could have affected things one or another way?


Let's work together to find answers and move forward towards the better end.

[Kumna]

Iperson,

If you read carefully my post, most of what I said is based on micro dimension not macro. You are right about the benefit of the education for the society as a whole. But when it comes to individuals, the education system would not exist if people could not better their lives both materially and intellectually. If I were to go to school for the sole purpose of learning, I would not need the grades. If people could get good jobs without education, the edcation system would be totally different. Do you wonder why kids of some wealthy people go to special schools where no grade is needed? Do you think when your parents sent you to school they just expected you to learn everything about teeth and go back home to stay with them for the rest of your life? Open your eyes man. I dont know about you, but the best learning opportunities I ever had were the ones I initiated myself. I decided to learn about a particular topic, got couple books about it and gathered as much information as I could. I call that true learning. Of course, I would not have gotten that without the basics I received from the education system.

Anyway, I suggest you re-read my post. Instead of thinking about all those benefits of education, think about how do you get kids to stay in school. You can not answer this question without understanding what kids want and what they expect from life no matter how great education is. One of the basics of economics (fondation of capitalism) is the theory of Adams Smith: If everyone pursues his/her personal interest, the society as a whole will ultimately benefit. So, ask yourself: what is in it for the kids? How do you convince them that education works for each one of them? Trust me, they wont buy your theory of "benefit for the society".

As for your quotation of Mr Czeslaw, I would not put those words in his mouth. If you had read his book "The captive mind" and understood what he said about allure of stalinism to intellectuals, you would not dare to say something like that. It looks like you have been watching to much TV.


This is a free country, you can exercise your rights to free speech. But remember, the founding fathers did not spend all of their time just speaking. They actually got things done. You would not have admired this country if they did not do their jobs and the subsequent generations did not keep up. You would be more productive if you actually did something about it instead of trying to be the loudest. Get out and volunteer to tutor high school students, or do whatever you feel like is helpful. This is the place you have chosen to live in, so make yourself helpful to make it a better place for future generations. Think of it as your America, not "Their America". This place has welcomed you and has values you aspire to. So contribute and stop whinning. As an immigrant myself, I share compassion with you. I understand what you are going through. You left your country and are now experiencing things you were not used to. The situation is getting you upset and you wish people will appreciate and treat you the way you were used to being treated. I will tell you this: Everyone goes through that and happy are the ones who have learned to move on. Be realistic, you cannot transform 300 millions into polish and no matter how hard you bash America, life will go on.

For your own well beign, shut up, stop whinning and start contributing.

Peace!

[Pegasus]

Kumna, I admire you!! I am a US citizen born in the USA. And we need more legal immigrants like you!!! You have the right attitude!! Keep it up!!

[Antifascist1]

On more than one occasion I disagreed with "iperson", but since when telling "shut up" to someone you disagree with is an example of contribution to AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE?