HI SOMEONE12, FEDERALE

[Kollerkrot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kollerkrot:

I agree! I watched it...I like it, it is a great piece of discovery and it will open up lots of possibilities, even in my personal life. Actually not a discovery at all, because it's always been, just that we didn't understand it that way - we perceived it (spirit) a different way. They still talk about a "careful engineering". Who then engineered it? I still believe in God and God's word as written in the Bible because in there God equals good and when you believe in good, you have nothing to fear.

It's the very same thing. With this, God just allowed us to see him more clearly.

Hm, come to think of it: If (as evidenced in Down the Rabbit Hole) electrons cancel out wave functions by being observed - why do we believe the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around. Wasn't Galileo just an observer? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason why the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way round, and is not up to debate or an observer's POV, is because they are not quantum particles, which are ruled by different physical laws.

Who engineered it? You make quite a huge quantum leap a.ssuming that someone had to engineer it. The answer is no one could engineer it in order for all of it to exist. I already explained it earlier.
If God exists, then I have everything to fear. Do you know or attempt to even imagine what this God would be like, and what a heaven would look like, and what you would be doing while in heaven in all of its eternity, can you? Tell me what do you expect to happen after this life, Kollerkrot? Describe to me, what you wish you would be doing in heaven? Details, please.
Rarely anyone goes that far, and when they do, they have no answer or it sounds too silly to even type. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IP, My God is a spirit, it is my soul, I am divine I am the church. I don't see God like you - a big man with a beard sitting in heaven. I don't believe in heaven and hell - you know the picturesque story that the "vatican" projects unto us. I was christened catholic, because my parents are catholic and there parents before them, etc, etc.. I don't believe in an organized church, doesn't matter which denomination. I reject to have to go through someone to talk to God. In fact it is the Catholics practice to not have an own Bible. I sometimes reject others' views of God (like yours for example where he is the all controlling entity), or the one my community priest might has. God talks to us all individually we all perceive him differently - that's how the Bible is written. I might have my perception about something in the Bible and the person right next to me has another. That's how God wanted it - the control is all yours.

I do believe in positive and negative forces such as Yin Yang, in that I have positive and negative thoughts, logic and illogic, which I am able to control. My God does not control me, my God gives me the option to make my own decisions. God makes me think. I read the Bible and although I don't understand everything that's in it. I don't have to, because God speaks to us individually. So, if it really pertains to my issue and me it will make sense.

I do not expect anything after this life - in fact, I believe I never die because I have children and my cells already live in them. I (my body) will be recycled and perhaps sometime appear again.

.....didn't make me feel silly at all.

PS. At least I may see myself in existence. According to "What the ##### do we know"!? We don't even exist. We never lived we never die?!? That's heavy and creates millions of questions.

[OldE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldE:

As to first part of your reply, i will leave it without a comment , it's funny though </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, Davdah is the funniest fellah on this board, because he doesn't realize it.
According to Davdah, God created all religions, science, Santa Clause, and can you even imagine four dimensions??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am never spiteful without necessity so there was no hidden jibe at his misunderstanding but only a genuine , good spirited laughter at what he had made of Einstein's quote.

[OldE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
The quote merely attempts to justify one brand of religion over another. He claims many religions have a basis in our feeble minds therefor wrong and primitive. Whereas his are in the cosmos and higher learning making it superior. Either way, God created both and neither are superior to the other in engineering accomplishment.

To state pursuits in physics and like sciences are greater is questionable given we don't understand how our own brain functions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you notice he didn't say that the pursuit of physics and sciences is greater than other endeavours, what he wrote was that "A contemporary has said, not unjustly,that in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are the only profoundly religious people". And it's true in essence if you fully understand what he means by restating it.

As to first part of your reply, i will leave it without a comment , it's funny though

[OldE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
E, you're more correct than you know. As often as it happens. People who claim the works of God and cause pain in the process fail to identify which god they serve. They serve satan, another version of god.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think a quote from A.E. summed it up very well, as far as true motivations are concerned.

Now that it has been a known fact for all men who had any serious acquaintance with Natural science for the past 500 years that the antropomorphic image of God (and all known to mankind religions, for this matter) are but our feeble human projections of ourselves it is time that men of senses stop all these silly debates about matters already setlled.

For hard thinkers question is not how to suppress desires for satisfying felt needs and the assuagement of pain, for it would be tantamount to declaring war on Nature and would be doomed to ultimately fail in the end.

The only question is that of the WAY or PATH to be chosen , given the facts of reality that have little to do with f.airy tales we were told in the childhood.

You are in Dark Ages here right now (and with you the rest of the world) and who knows what amount of time it will take for Civilization to make another step forward and live with these realities without resorting to selfdestruction.

But for every dawn there must be a night.

So long.

[Kollerkrot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rough Neighbor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
Those are not theories RN, they are reality tapped into.

... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Evolution is a theory. It will remain as such and it's losing its appeal in the passage of time. Why? Because it raises more and more questions while failing to give even a single scientifically provable answer. While the rest that you have cited are wild conjectures, propositions, or hypotheses just to spurn the great design of the Creator Who has created everything from nothing - something that's too mysterious and miraculous for a skeptic's illogical and irrational mind power (or lack of it) to accept. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree! I watched it...I like it, it is a great piece of discovery and it will open up lots of possibilities, even in my personal life. Actually not a discovery at all, because it's always been, just that we didn't understand it that way - we perceived it (spirit) a different way. They still talk about a "careful engineering". Who then engineered it? I still believe in God and God's word as written in the Bible because in there God equals good and when you believe in good, you have nothing to fear.

It's the very same thing. With this, God just allowed us to see him more clearly.

Hm, come to think of it: If (as evidenced in Down the Rabbit Hole) electrons cancel out wave functions by being observed - why do we believe the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around. Wasn't Galileo just an observer?

[Brit4064]

I disagree RN. Evolution is a bit more than a theory. There is plenty of scientific fact to back up much of what it stands for. Yes there are holes in it but the same can be said for Creationism.

What annoys me is when Creationists try to push for the subject to be taught in schools as a science. It isn't. It's a theory and it's rightful place is taught as religious/theological studies.

Remember the Dover, DE School board decision in 2005?

[Rough Neighbor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
Those are not theories RN, they are reality tapped into.

... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Evolution is a theory. It will remain as such and it's losing its appeal in the passage of time. Why? Because it raises more and more questions while failing to give even a single scientifically provable answer. While the rest that you have cited are wild conjectures, propositions, or hypotheses just to spurn the great design of the Creator Who has created everything from nothing - something that's too mysterious and miraculous for a skeptic's illogical and irrational mind power (or lack of it) to accept.

[Rough Neighbor]

In fairness, at least iperson can cite some of her excerpted highfalutin nonsensical "theories" about the matter. S12, the avatar of idiocy, on the other hand, can bruit about nothing but his preschooler stupidity.

[Rough Neighbor]

But the fact remains that none of the doubters can present any logical or rational explanation as to how something can come out of nothing.

Hahaha! The full-pledge moron known as S12 just fired some cowardly shots and ran.

"cleanse your mind..."...which really means, wash those few particles of intellect out and replace it with dogma....what a great solution!......

[OldE]

If God was to be judged by the works of men who claim to be inspired or acting on his behalf (terrorists are a good example) we would have to declare such God to be personification and father of all Evil in the Universe.


Here is the good quote from someone known to everyone on the subject of Religion and Science:



Religion and Science

Everything that the human race has done and thought is concerned with
the satisfaction of felt needs and the assuagement of pain. One has to keep
this constantly in mind if one wishes to understand spiritual movements and
their development. Feeling and desire are the motive forces behind all human
endeavour and human creation, in however exalted a guise the latter may
present itself to us. Now what are the feelings and needs that have led men
to religious thought and belief in the widest sense of the words? A little
consideration will suffice to show us that the most varying emotions preside
over the birth of religious thought and experience. With primitive man it is
above all fear that evokes religious notions--fear of hunger, wild beasts,
sickness, death. Since at this stage of existence understanding of causal
connexions is usually poorly developed, the human mind creates for itself
more or less analogous beings on whose wills and actions these fearful
happenings depend. One's object now is to secure the favour of these beings
by carrying out actions and offering sacrifices which, according to the
tradition handed down from generation to generation, propitiate them or make
them well disposed towards a mortal. I am speaking now of the religion of
fear. This, though not created, is in an important degree stabilized by the
formation of a special priestly caste which sets up as a mediator between
the people and the beings they fear, and erects a hegemony on this basis. In
many cases the leader or ruler whose position depends on other factors, or a
privileged class, combines priestly functions with its secular authority in
order to make the latter more secure; or the political rulers and the
priestly caste make common cause in their own interests.

The social feelings are another source of the crystallization of
religion. Fathers and mothers and the leaders of larger human communities
are mortal and fallible. The desire for guidance, love, and support prompts
men to form the social or moral conception of God. This is the God of
Providence who protects, disposes, rewards, and punishes, the God who,
according to the width of the believer's outlook, loves and cherishes the
life of the tribe or of the human race, or even life as such, the comforter
in sorrow and unsatisfied longing, who preserves the souls of the dead. This
is the social or moral conception of God.

The Jewish scriptures admirably illustrate the development from the
religion of fear to moral religion, which is continued in the New Testament.
The religions of all civilized peoples, especially the peoples of the
Orient, are primarily moral religions. The development from a religion of
fear to moral religion is a great step in a nation's life. That primitive
religions are based entirely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples
purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on our guard. The
truth is that they are all intermediate types, with this reservation, that
on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.

Common to all these types is the anthropomorphic character of their
conception of God. Only individuals of exceptional endowments and
exceptionally high-minded communities, as a general rule, get in any real
sense beyond this level. But there is a third state of religious experience
which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form,
and which I will call cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to
explain this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as
there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.

The individual feels the nothingness of human desires and aims and the
sublimity and marvellous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in
the world of thought. He looks upon individual existence as a sort of prison
and wants to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The
beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear in earlier stages of
development--e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the
Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learnt from the wonderful writings of
Schopenhauer especially, contains a much stronger element of it.

The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind
of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's
image; so that there can be no Church whose central teachings are based on
it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men
who were filled with the highest kind of religious feeling and were in many
cases regarded by their contemporaries as Atheists, sometimes also as
saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and
Spinoza are closely akin to one another.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to
another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology?
In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken
this feeling and keep it alive in those who are capable of it.

We thus arrive at a conception of the relation of science to religion
very different from the usual one. When one views the matter historically
one is inclined to look upon science and religion as irreconcilable
antagonists, and for a very obvious reason. The man who is thoroughly
convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for a
moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of
events--that is, if he takes the hypothesis of causality really seriously.
He has no use for the religion of fear and equally little for social or
moral religion. A God who rewards and punishes is inconceivable to him for
the simple reason that a man's actions are determined by necessity, external
and internal, so that in God's eyes he cannot be responsible, any more than
an inanimate object is responsible for the motions it goes through. Hence
science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is
unjust. A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would
indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear and punishment
and hope of reward after death.

It is therefore easy to see why the Churches have always fought science
and persecuted its devotees. On the other hand, I maintain that cosmic
religious feeling is the strongest and noblest incitement to scientific
research. Only those who realize the immense efforts and, above all, the
devotion which pioneer work in theoretical science demands, can grasp the
strength of the emotion out of which alone such work, remote as it is from
the immediate realities of life, can issue. What a deep conviction of the
rationality of the universe and what a yearning to understand, were it but a
feeble reflection of the mind revealed in this world, Kepler and Newton must
have had to enable them to spend years of solitary labour in disentangling
the principles of celestial mechanics! Those whose acquaintance with
scientific research is derived chiefly from its practical results easily
develop a completely false notion of the mentality of the men who,
surrounded by a sceptical world, have shown the way to those like-minded
with themselves, scattered through the earth and the centuries. Only one who
has devoted his life to similar ends can have a vivid realization of what
has inspired these men and given them the strength to remain true to their
purpose in spite of countless failures. It is cosmic religious feeling that
gives a man strength of this sort. A contemporary has said, not unjustly,
that in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are
the only profoundly religious people.

Albert Einstein. The world as I see it

[Kollerkrot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rough Neighbor:
But please any of your highfalutin nonsense won't do next time around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey IP, go ahead and water that one down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppIgFEFUpjw

And, this here from a lowly shepherd boy (David) some 2000 years ago.

Psalm 19:
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the end of the world.

[Rough Neighbor]

But please any of your highfalutin nonsense won't do next time around.

[Rough Neighbor]

Haha! What else is new? Got better things to do! Hey, let's continue some other time when you're free ok?

[Rough Neighbor]

Show me that any of that is a widely accepted scientific law or principle. Or, for you to be logical and rational that you claim, cleanse your mind, purify your heart, wash your hands, and read the Book of Genesis.