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  • #61
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
    What you wrote above RN makes absolutely no sense. You're a.s.s.uming we are a creation, something significant, an ultimate intention of a conscious being. Yet, you offer no proof that this is the case.
    We are a consequence, to go even a little further to illustrate the point, a by product of the universe's evolutionary processes, along with all the bacteria, parasites, fish and all the rest of carbon life.
    We invent words like god, good, evil, soul, angels, satan, etc. to add significance to our existence, but notice that none of these words describe anything that naturally exists in nature, and none of the above are proven to exist.
    Simply because they don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ok, but evolution is a process, not an event. In order for a life form to evolve, there must be something that it's evolving from - even if that's a one-cell organism or something. If evolution is the process, the origin of the first life form is the event. The question that evolutionists and big-bangers can't explain is where did the first life form come from, or how could something come into being out of nothing? Let's leave the discussion about the human body for later, that happens to be so sophisticated, mysterious, and inexplicable to be just a 'consequence' of 'universe's evolutionary processes.' That's the organic part.

    Next please explain to me the inorganic part of the universe: the air we breathe, the water we drink, the land and sea that feed us, the sun and the moon that balance life's mechanisms, and the likes. Please show me that these are consequences of universal evolutionary processes too.


    • #62
      No no, on the condition that you will read the Bible too because there is where logical and rational thinking lies. Or better still, let's debate real-time now based on our own logical and rational thinking.


      • #63
        Yes? What happened? Where are your multiple theorists to back up your 'logical and rational' thoughts? I'm telling you, I've got nobody. Just the guidance of the Holy Spirit and my humble god-given reasoning ability.


        • #64
          It goes without saying that I'm waiting for S12's soon-to-be idiotic postings too. For the record, I can see that he's online at this very moment.


          • #65
            Again, for the record, just a split second ago, S12, the's moronic icon, just ran away with hooked tail to hide under his momma's skirt as usual. Hmm... so boring for an early Sunday evening!


            • #66

              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rough Neighbor:
              Again, for the record, just a split second ago, S12, the's moronic icon, just ran away with hooked tail to hide under his momma's skirt as usual. Hmm... so boring for an early Sunday evening! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


              • #67
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">We are the furthest evolved carbon life in the process of fractalization (via the vibration of strings) of spacetime and speciation of virtual particles in the Higgs field. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                In short, this is yet another wild 'theory' tossed around out there just to work around the creation of the first life form by the Supreme Being.

                I can't see your answer to my other question that begs explaining. If life evolves, how about the other non-life forms that are necessary to sustain life?


                • #68
                  Show me that any of that is a widely accepted scientific law or principle. Or, for you to be logical and rational that you claim, cleanse your mind, purify your heart, wash your hands, and read the Book of Genesis.


                  • #69
                    Haha! What else is new? Got better things to do! Hey, let's continue some other time when you're free ok?


                    • #70
                      But please any of your highfalutin nonsense won't do next time around.


                      • #71
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rough Neighbor:
                        But please any of your highfalutin nonsense won't do next time around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Hey IP, go ahead and water that one down.


                        And, this here from a lowly shepherd boy (David) some 2000 years ago.

                        Psalm 19:
                        The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the end of the world.
                        “...I may condemn what you say, but I will give my life for that you may say it”! - Voltaire


                        • #72
                          If God was to be judged by the works of men who claim to be inspired or acting on his behalf (terrorists are a good example) we would have to declare such God to be personification and father of all Evil in the Universe.

                          Here is the good quote from someone known to everyone on the subject of Religion and Science:

                          Religion and Science

                          Everything that the human race has done and thought is concerned with
                          the satisfaction of felt needs and the assuagement of pain. One has to keep
                          this constantly in mind if one wishes to understand spiritual movements and
                          their development. Feeling and desire are the motive forces behind all human
                          endeavour and human creation, in however exalted a guise the latter may
                          present itself to us. Now what are the feelings and needs that have led men
                          to religious thought and belief in the widest sense of the words? A little
                          consideration will suffice to show us that the most varying emotions preside
                          over the birth of religious thought and experience. With primitive man it is
                          above all fear that evokes religious notions--fear of hunger, wild beasts,
                          sickness, death. Since at this stage of existence understanding of causal
                          connexions is usually poorly developed, the human mind creates for itself
                          more or less analogous beings on whose wills and actions these fearful
                          happenings depend. One's object now is to secure the favour of these beings
                          by carrying out actions and offering sacrifices which, according to the
                          tradition handed down from generation to generation, propitiate them or make
                          them well disposed towards a mortal. I am speaking now of the religion of
                          fear. This, though not created, is in an important degree stabilized by the
                          formation of a special priestly caste which sets up as a mediator between
                          the people and the beings they fear, and erects a hegemony on this basis. In
                          many cases the leader or ruler whose position depends on other factors, or a
                          privileged class, combines priestly functions with its secular authority in
                          order to make the latter more secure; or the political rulers and the
                          priestly caste make common cause in their own interests.

                          The social feelings are another source of the crystallization of
                          religion. Fathers and mothers and the leaders of larger human communities
                          are mortal and fallible. The desire for guidance, love, and support prompts
                          men to form the social or moral conception of God. This is the God of
                          Providence who protects, disposes, rewards, and punishes, the God who,
                          according to the width of the believer's outlook, loves and cherishes the
                          life of the tribe or of the human race, or even life as such, the comforter
                          in sorrow and unsatisfied longing, who preserves the souls of the dead. This
                          is the social or moral conception of God.

                          The Jewish scriptures admirably illustrate the development from the
                          religion of fear to moral religion, which is continued in the New Testament.
                          The religions of all civilized peoples, especially the peoples of the
                          Orient, are primarily moral religions. The development from a religion of
                          fear to moral religion is a great step in a nation's life. That primitive
                          religions are based entirely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples
                          purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on our guard. The
                          truth is that they are all intermediate types, with this reservation, that
                          on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.

                          Common to all these types is the anthropomorphic character of their
                          conception of God. Only individuals of exceptional endowments and
                          exceptionally high-minded communities, as a general rule, get in any real
                          sense beyond this level. But there is a third state of religious experience
                          which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form,
                          and which I will call cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to
                          explain this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as
                          there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.

                          The individual feels the nothingness of human desires and aims and the
                          sublimity and marvellous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in
                          the world of thought. He looks upon individual existence as a sort of prison
                          and wants to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The
                          beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear in earlier stages of
                          development--e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the
                          Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learnt from the wonderful writings of
                          Schopenhauer especially, contains a much stronger element of it.

                          The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind
                          of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's
                          image; so that there can be no Church whose central teachings are based on
                          it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men
                          who were filled with the highest kind of religious feeling and were in many
                          cases regarded by their contemporaries as Atheists, sometimes also as
                          saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and
                          Spinoza are closely akin to one another.

                          How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to
                          another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology?
                          In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken
                          this feeling and keep it alive in those who are capable of it.

                          We thus arrive at a conception of the relation of science to religion
                          very different from the usual one. When one views the matter historically
                          one is inclined to look upon science and religion as irreconcilable
                          antagonists, and for a very obvious reason. The man who is thoroughly
                          convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for a
                          moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of
                          events--that is, if he takes the hypothesis of causality really seriously.
                          He has no use for the religion of fear and equally little for social or
                          moral religion. A God who rewards and punishes is inconceivable to him for
                          the simple reason that a man's actions are determined by necessity, external
                          and internal, so that in God's eyes he cannot be responsible, any more than
                          an inanimate object is responsible for the motions it goes through. Hence
                          science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is
                          unjust. A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy,
                          education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would
                          indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear and punishment
                          and hope of reward after death.

                          It is therefore easy to see why the Churches have always fought science
                          and persecuted its devotees. On the other hand, I maintain that cosmic
                          religious feeling is the strongest and noblest incitement to scientific
                          research. Only those who realize the immense efforts and, above all, the
                          devotion which pioneer work in theoretical science demands, can grasp the
                          strength of the emotion out of which alone such work, remote as it is from
                          the immediate realities of life, can issue. What a deep conviction of the
                          rationality of the universe and what a yearning to understand, were it but a
                          feeble reflection of the mind revealed in this world, Kepler and Newton must
                          have had to enable them to spend years of solitary labour in disentangling
                          the principles of celestial mechanics! Those whose acquaintance with
                          scientific research is derived chiefly from its practical results easily
                          develop a completely false notion of the mentality of the men who,
                          surrounded by a sceptical world, have shown the way to those like-minded
                          with themselves, scattered through the earth and the centuries. Only one who
                          has devoted his life to similar ends can have a vivid realization of what
                          has inspired these men and given them the strength to remain true to their
                          purpose in spite of countless failures. It is cosmic religious feeling that
                          gives a man strength of this sort. A contemporary has said, not unjustly,
                          that in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are
                          the only profoundly religious people.

                          Albert Einstein. The world as I see it

                          "...I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit


                          • #73
                            "cleanse your mind..."...which really means, wash those few particles of intellect out and replace it with dogma....what a great solution!......


                            • #74
                              But the fact remains that none of the doubters can present any logical or rational explanation as to how something can come out of nothing.

                              Hahaha! The full-pledge moron known as S12 just fired some cowardly shots and ran.


                              • #75
                                In fairness, at least iperson can cite some of her excerpted highfalutin nonsensical "theories" about the matter. S12, the avatar of idiocy, on the other hand, can bruit about nothing but his preschooler stupidity.


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