HI SOMEONE12, FEDERALE

[OldE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
I know, OldE. It's absurd to say the least, that something that doesn't even exist has to be proven as such. Do we also have to prove that $%#^& and *(&%$# and #@$%^& don't exist too?
On top of that, to add a little twist to an already absurd situation is that I need to battle a logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum, on which a theist mind relies as the basis for god's existence, beyond f.airytales. It is the only argument feasibly acceptable that the whole theistic theory is based on, because there can be no other, and yet is it an utter fallacy.

I agree with you that there is much we don't know, and there is a power of life, larger than we can ever understand.
But that power has no approximately personal or any type of connection to us, nor will we ever have a connection to "it" in any sense. This is an indisputable fact, as logic supports it. In order for free life to exist, there cannot be any ties between different levels of existence in a consequential universe.
God's existence means an elimination of free will altogether, absolute control and limits on existence, and its evolutionary free process. His existence would basically introduce an element of chaos and subvert any chances for life to exist.
In order for life to exist, it must be free of a human God.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't tell me things i knew when you wre running through under the table without lowering your head, iperson

Of psychological fallacy of too human habit of projection of things inherent to the person to those outside of it i am aware of too well

You too have a good one.

[Kollerkrot]

How is that for proof?

Wisdom's Call
Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
On the heights along the way where the paths meet, she takes her stand; beside the gates leading into the city at the entrances she cries aloud:

To you oh men, I call out; I raise my voice to all mankind. You who are simple, gain prudence; you who are foolish, gain understanding. Listen, for I have worthy things to say; I open my lips to speak what is right. My mouth speaks what is true, for my lips detest wickedness. All the words of my mouth are just; none of them is crooked or perverse. To the discerning all of them are right; they are faultless to those who have knowledge. Choose my instructions instead of silver, knowledge rather than choice gold, for wisdom is more precious than rubles and nothing you desire can compare with her.

I, wisdom dwell together with prudence; I possess knowledge and discretion. To fear the lord is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech. Counsel and sound judgment are mine; I have understanding and power. By me kings reign and rulers make laws that are just; by me princes govern and all nobles who rule on earth. I love those who love me and those who seek me find me. With me are riches and honor enduring wealth and prosperity. My fruit is better than fine gold; what I yield surpasses choice silver. I walk in the way of righteousness, along the paths of justice, bestowing wealth on those who love me and making their treasuries full.

The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works before his deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity from the beginning , before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place before the hills, I was given birth, before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the wold. I was there when he set the heavens in place when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day rejoicing always in his presence, rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.

Now then, my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hat me love death.

[OldE]

Ok, davdah, whatever

Have a good one.

[OldE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
If what you say you believe, then your post is the most wasteful of all.

When an assertion is made and questioned, it doesn't matter the subject. There exists a requirement to defend it. That is the 'existence', the position taken. To relieve atheists of the burden to prove non-existence, which is their argument, it serves to reinforce the weakness of their position.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How is it most wasteful of all to say it would be wasteful to get into further discussion of this subject and stop there ?
Hmm...

As to general rules of logical argument why do you make a fool of yourself by disputing the obvious?

What if i say that you have ten heads with fifty eyes all over it and that you hid it somewhere in constellation of Orion, how are you going to disprove it?

davdah, you shouldn't be getting into this because you will make a bigger fool of yourself than you actually are.

[OldE]

The rules of argument (if you want to argue logically) require one to prove existence rather than non-existence.
In other owrds, one is not obligated to prove non-existence, it's those who make positive assertion that also bear the burden of proving it.

As to morals, Nietzsche made a daring attempt in his Zur Genealogie der Moral to answer this question , but couldn't really break it down as he was losing his mind at the time. But it still should serve as one of the Morality 101 books for any dilletant who wishes to arrive to even basic questions and critical approach of same in the ways that may have never popped up in his or her head before.

As to wonders of Nature that escape our ability to penetrate those, as testified by brightest minds of XXth century , among whom were Bohr, Bohm, Einstein, Feynman and others: well, for you to even begin to voice anything resembling of required deep reflection on this subject you would first need to immerce yourselves in many years of studies and contemplations of the ways of Nature- as empirically evidenced - and you would have to make constant extraordinary efforts in hopes to arrive at some point to the level that would allow you to get a glimpce of and grasp what brighest of all had thought of it (which would still only open the door to enormous amazement and never give you any better vision of complete, not any better than if you were trying to pry into the depth of the Ocean from above the surface of it) , and even then you would most likely fail to see even as little as immediately under the surface of it as it takes an individual of very rare intelectual capacity and abilities to attempt getting into that type of subjects.

It would be a foolish waste of a time for a man of senses to get into discussion of such subjects on public forums , with random participants whose firmness in expressing their opinions rivals only the exhibition of an almost total absence of any knowledge to necessary to back it up.

And those of us who ever participated on such discussions with those who are way to far removed from comprehending it did already discover, and it was a bitter discovery at that, what a waste of time it had been.

[abercrombie_toronto]

Why would he call you? to talk about Illegal immigrants or about YOUR COUNTRY? or maybe about the Vietnam war how your A$$ got beaten there! Just take it the way it seems to be, you are on the ground and he is up the sky. How happy i am when i remember being in Mecca saying Allah’o Akbar wishing nothing from this life but his mercy! Take it easy S12, whatever nerve you have on you, you still cant fly,,,,,,!


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Someone12:
so davdah and sourkraut have 'proved' the existence of god, by what? writing something? woo hooo....why is it that this particular deity, claimed to omnipotent by his/her brainwashed believers, is so impotent when it comes to, oh, say, torching an abortion clinic or shooting a doctor that performs abortions, all 'in the name of god' (or as often, 'god told me to do this')...if god was so unhappy with said abortion clinic/doctor, why couldn't he/she have just 'smitten' it/him/her out of existence? Why does this deity need the intervention of us lowly human beings?
I have not seen one shred of proof of the existence of god or allah or any other particular deity/supreme being. Of course, anyone can believe in anything they wish, but the arrogrance and hypocrisy of brainwashed believers surfaces quickly when they call upon said deity to do harm to someone else, but ...alas...nothing happens.
And ambercrumbly....still waitin' for that phone call...but maybe ole allah is too busy 'keeping score.' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so davdah and sourkraut have 'proved' the existence of god, by what? writing something? woo hooo....why is it that this particular deity, claimed to omnipotent by his/her brainwashed believers, is so impotent when it comes to, oh, say, torching an abortion clinic or shooting a doctor that performs abortions, all 'in the name of god' (or as often, 'god told me to do this')...if god was so unhappy with said abortion clinic/doctor, why couldn't he/she have just 'smitten' it/him/her out of existence? Why does this deity need the intervention of us lowly human beings?
I have not seen one shred of proof of the existence of god or allah or any other particular deity/supreme being. Of course, anyone can believe in anything they wish, but the arrogrance and hypocrisy of brainwashed believers surfaces quickly when they call upon said deity to do harm to someone else, but ...alas...nothing happens.
And ambercrumbly....still waitin' for that phone call...but maybe ole allah is too busy 'keeping score.'

[Kollerkrot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
What human being wrote the Ten Commandments? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

She is referring to Moses (a human), because she doesn't believe God exists. According to the bible, Moses went onto Mount Sinai where he had the encounter with God.

[ProudUSC]

What human being wrote the Ten Commandments?

[ProudUSC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
Is that to say this 'opinion' is also of the same calibre of screeching noise as what results from a feedback loop?

To hypothesize wormholes you need to understand to some extent what they are and how they 'may' function. Given we don't have one readily available to play with we'll use the rock star and blown speaker analogy.

The noise created is due to amplification and the electronic equipments inability to amplify each element of the sound maintaining it's original status within the sound cluster. Correctly put, the louder you speak, the less likely anyone is able to understand. Hence the reason women should not speak as it is noise we men hear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Typical Davdah.

Proudie, everyone is entitled to their own lie, I get it. Whatever helps to get you through the night is alright. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IP, I don't feel I'm living a lie. Even an atheist can't argue with the Ten Commandments.
That's what I believe. If you follow them (and we all don't from time to time ), it makes you a better person.

[NO AMNESTY!!!]

b.a.l.l.s.

[NO AMNESTY!!!]

YIKES!!! what a bunch of confused losers. You people don't know if you are coming or going. And yet, all of you, (except S12, Federale and myself of course) have the ***** to give advice to bigger losers than yourselves. You are all a cheap joke.

[4now]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Can you explain why there are g.a.y people? No, you cannot, and I can. You explain it via biblical terms of sin, but there is no sin, no good, no evil -- these are all vacuous terms that mean nothing in reality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Please explain why there are g.ay people

btw. explain what you mean biblical terms why there are ho.mosexuals.

so what.. you are running away with your carrot between your legs

[4now]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kollerkrot:
I cannot and will not understand how Atheists think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this is the point I'm making. You're afraid to think. You'd rather stay inside where it's all cosy, all explained to you in fables and ***** tales of the Bible. You're afraid what would happen if you looked outside of the familiar, sugarcoated world, and really see what reality is really like.
Looking at reality without god requires courage and a mature mind. It takes time to arrive at this point, it took me 34 years and I'm happier than I've ever been. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is exactly where you are coming from. You want something that is cozy to you and no accountability. Only a fool could not believe in a supreme being as the creator. One need only to look at nature , the cylces, the human being to know that there is a master weaver.

Every day that I look upon all the flowers and colors and hue tell me that some higher power than man controls.

BTW. no one is going to your blogs, so if you want us to see it, you know to make your thread Satan.

You are a foolish one in every sense of the word.

[Kollerkrot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iperson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kollerkrot:
I cannot and will not understand how Atheists think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this is the point I'm making. You're afraid to think. You'd rather stay inside where it's all cosy, all explained to you in fables and ***** tales of the Bible. You're afraid what would happen if you looked outside of the familiar, sugarcoated world, and really see what reality is really like.
Looking at reality without god requires courage and a mature mind. It takes time to arrive at this point, it took me 34 years and I'm happier than I've ever been. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I should have also mentioned that I am not interested (I don't want to know) how Atheists think. Why should I leave my sugarcoated, cozy world? For who? I know reality enough that I do not blame God (the Spirit) for earthquakes and other chaos in the world.

I got to go to work....can't get into this any further now.