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Immigration debate lacks rationality, needs logic

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    4now - no, I did not mean suspend the issuances of F1s...what I said was to eliminate changes of status from B2-->H1 or F1 or GC....

    Leave a comment:


  • Mrs. B.
    replied
    Hi ProudUSC,

    Good article!

    One statement caught my eye, viz:
    "But just like our labor force figures, our fertility rate is based on calculations that include immigrants, both legal and illegal. The fertility rate of foreign-born people in this country is higher than for the native born, which means the contribution of migrants to America's demographic health is significant."

    My husband doesn't want to have kids and another friend's wife doesn't want to have kids also (that guy's got one kid already though). Not that I'm complaining, we're happy as we are but I'm just amazed that we're a part of this statistic.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4now
    replied
    Come on someone.

    did you mean that?

    dont issue any more f-1 visa? you mean f2 right

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Immigration law is easy...just obey it.....and end all waivers....then we would see the end of last-minute marriages 'for love'...end all adjustment of status (except from the K visas)...no more B2-->H1b or F1 or GC...no more... if some potential visa cheat wants to 'change their mind' they can explain this new vision to our embassy officials in their own country....

    Leave a comment:


  • ProudUSC
    replied
    This is a good article. Definitely worth the time it takes to read it.

    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/art...3vip-valdez0113.html

    Immigration debate lacks rationality, needs logic

    Jan. 13, 2008 12:00 AM

    The immigration debate needs a mute button, and Arizona knows it.

    A Rocky Mountain Poll of Maricopa County residents conducted late last year found that 66 percent think politicians are turning illegal immigration into "an ugly racial issue."

    Those polled also had a clear idea of what needs to be done. advertisement




    Seventy-six percent thought federal law should provide a way for foreign workers to come and go across the border legally. That was up from 73 percent in May 2006.

    Eighty-three percent agreed that "securing our borders should be our top priority, but fair and humane treatment of foreign workers is also very important."

    Sixty-four percent disagreed with the statement that "people who enter the United States illegally to seek work are no better than common criminals."

    The responses suggest a strong desire for change in policy and in the tone of the discussions.

    Yet one question was not so easy.

    People were asked to agree or disagree that "there are currently more Americans retiring from the labor force than there are young Americans entering the labor force, so immigrant labor is a necessity if the United States wants to keep a strong economy."

    Forty-four percent agreed, 40 percent disagreed and 16 percent were unsure.

    There are economists who argue that migrant laborers will be essential. Who else will wash the baby boomers' bedpans and fry up burgers while the iPod generation finishes grad school?

    Others suggest that wages would rise and domestic workers would fill the gap if migrants left.

    What's the reality?

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics does 10-year employment projections every two years. The most recent was the subject of a series of articles in the BLS' Monthly Labor Review for November 2007. The reports say that during the period from 2006 to 2016, the component of the labor force made up of older people will grow five times faster than the labor force in general.

    Asians and Hispanics, who have been the fastest-growing component of the labor force since 1986, both each increase their labor representation by 2.7 percent every year through 2016. Compare that with the overall growth in the labor force, which is projected to be 0.8 percent annually through 2016, and you can see that these folks are important.

    The statistics don't distinguish between people who are here legally and those who aren't. Instead, the projections "recognize the reality of historic trends" (regarding immigration) and "expect the persistence of those trends."

    In other words, this nation's illegal workforce is built into the model, and the continued arrival of migrants at current levels is part of a future economy that is projected to have a 5 percent unemployment rate each year until 2016.

    We not only employ millions of illegal workers, our economic projections are built on continuing to employ them.

    The United States is currently in a pretty good position demographically, says David Plane, a University of Arizona professor in the department of geography and regional development who has done research with the Census Bureau. We are far better off than Europe, for example, because our fertility rate is almost exactly at replacement level.

    The baby boomers, after delaying childbirth till later in life, "have replaced themselves," Plane says.

    But just like our labor force figures, our fertility rate is based on calculations that include immigrants, both legal and illegal. The fertility rate of foreign-born people in this country is higher than for the native born, which means the contribution of migrants to America's demographic health is significant.

    Opinions about the effect of illegal immigrants on the economy vary widely and largely depend on the underlying political philosophy of those who do the studies. Census figures, however, simply offer the reality: Migrants are here and their continued presence is built into the statistics we use to define ourselves.

    As Plane says, immigration "is more of an emotional debate than a real debate about the economy."

    That's why we need the mute button.

    So far, the loudest arguments have come from those who insist on seeing the migrant population as something entirely alien. In truth, they are us. They are part of a projected future that doesn't look all that bad.

    I wouldn't dream of denying anybody's First Amendment rights, but the loudmouths are hogging the stage. If we pass the microphone to the people in the middle, we might get some context and reason instead of all that bombast and "ugly racist" talk.

    Leave a comment:


  • ProudUSC
    started a topic Immigration debate lacks rationality, needs logic

    Immigration debate lacks rationality, needs logic

    This is a good article. Definitely worth the time it takes to read it.

    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/art...3vip-valdez0113.html

    Immigration debate lacks rationality, needs logic

    Jan. 13, 2008 12:00 AM

    The immigration debate needs a mute button, and Arizona knows it.

    A Rocky Mountain Poll of Maricopa County residents conducted late last year found that 66 percent think politicians are turning illegal immigration into "an ugly racial issue."

    Those polled also had a clear idea of what needs to be done. advertisement




    Seventy-six percent thought federal law should provide a way for foreign workers to come and go across the border legally. That was up from 73 percent in May 2006.

    Eighty-three percent agreed that "securing our borders should be our top priority, but fair and humane treatment of foreign workers is also very important."

    Sixty-four percent disagreed with the statement that "people who enter the United States illegally to seek work are no better than common criminals."

    The responses suggest a strong desire for change in policy and in the tone of the discussions.

    Yet one question was not so easy.

    People were asked to agree or disagree that "there are currently more Americans retiring from the labor force than there are young Americans entering the labor force, so immigrant labor is a necessity if the United States wants to keep a strong economy."

    Forty-four percent agreed, 40 percent disagreed and 16 percent were unsure.

    There are economists who argue that migrant laborers will be essential. Who else will wash the baby boomers' bedpans and fry up burgers while the iPod generation finishes grad school?

    Others suggest that wages would rise and domestic workers would fill the gap if migrants left.

    What's the reality?

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics does 10-year employment projections every two years. The most recent was the subject of a series of articles in the BLS' Monthly Labor Review for November 2007. The reports say that during the period from 2006 to 2016, the component of the labor force made up of older people will grow five times faster than the labor force in general.

    Asians and Hispanics, who have been the fastest-growing component of the labor force since 1986, both each increase their labor representation by 2.7 percent every year through 2016. Compare that with the overall growth in the labor force, which is projected to be 0.8 percent annually through 2016, and you can see that these folks are important.

    The statistics don't distinguish between people who are here legally and those who aren't. Instead, the projections "recognize the reality of historic trends" (regarding immigration) and "expect the persistence of those trends."

    In other words, this nation's illegal workforce is built into the model, and the continued arrival of migrants at current levels is part of a future economy that is projected to have a 5 percent unemployment rate each year until 2016.

    We not only employ millions of illegal workers, our economic projections are built on continuing to employ them.

    The United States is currently in a pretty good position demographically, says David Plane, a University of Arizona professor in the department of geography and regional development who has done research with the Census Bureau. We are far better off than Europe, for example, because our fertility rate is almost exactly at replacement level.

    The baby boomers, after delaying childbirth till later in life, "have replaced themselves," Plane says.

    But just like our labor force figures, our fertility rate is based on calculations that include immigrants, both legal and illegal. The fertility rate of foreign-born people in this country is higher than for the native born, which means the contribution of migrants to America's demographic health is significant.

    Opinions about the effect of illegal immigrants on the economy vary widely and largely depend on the underlying political philosophy of those who do the studies. Census figures, however, simply offer the reality: Migrants are here and their continued presence is built into the statistics we use to define ourselves.

    As Plane says, immigration "is more of an emotional debate than a real debate about the economy."

    That's why we need the mute button.

    So far, the loudest arguments have come from those who insist on seeing the migrant population as something entirely alien. In truth, they are us. They are part of a projected future that doesn't look all that bad.

    I wouldn't dream of denying anybody's First Amendment rights, but the loudmouths are hogging the stage. If we pass the microphone to the people in the middle, we might get some context and reason instead of all that bombast and "ugly racist" talk.
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