Announcement

**chuck** · 11-09-2007, 10:59 PM

The Catholic Church in Oklahoma has the courage to challenge the Oklahoma lawmakers who are passing thoughtless laws(HB 1834)that will result in the creation of an underclass in this country. See the letter below:

The courage of the Archbishop of Oklahoma City and the Council of Priests there should be rewarded at least by wide publication throughout our Church. The full statement to Governor Henry is below and can be found as indicated at the archdiocesan website.

http://www.catharchdioceseokc.org/Pl...Signatures.pdf

To: Honorable Brad Henry

Governor of the State of Oklahoma

2300 N. Lincoln Blvd., Room 212

Oklahoma City, OK 73105

Fax (405) 521-3353

Pledge of Resistance

This letter has been authored and signed in response to the recent signing into law of the HB 1804.

This new law is fiercely anti-immigrant and is not reflective of the values which respect people and

families.

With the advent of this new law, we are standing together in opposition and defiance of this unjust

and immoral law.

This law states that to aid, assist, or transport any undocumented person in the state of Oklahoma is a

felony and "on violating the provisions of subsequent A or B of this section shall, upon conviction,

be guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in the custody of the Department of Corrections for

not less than one (1) year, or by a fine of not less than One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00), or by both

such fine and imprisonment."

Our faith tradition instructs us to do good to all peoples. There is no exemption clause for those

persons who do not have documentation or their citizenship status. We will not show partiality to

those who are in need of humanitarian assistance.

Because this law is overly punitive and makes a felony of the act of providing humanitarian

assistance to an undocumented person in need; we the undersigned clergy, religious leaders, and lay

people of conscience will not and can not obey this law. We will continue to aid and assist all people

regardless of their legal citizenship status, with charitable care and spiritual counsel.

We people of faith and conscience refuse to be defined by fear of Oklahoma's law which makes

servant-leaders felons. Rather we stand in obedience to faith, hope, and love. We call for repeal of

this anti-immigrant bill and for the passage of immigration reform that provides justice for all of

God's children.

We stand together, in solidarity, in defiance of this law because of our allegiance to a higher law; the

law of love of God and humanity.

Council of Priests – Archdiocese of Oklahoma City

Most Reverend Eusebius J. Beltran

Archbishop of Oklahoma City

/s/ Reverend Anthony Taylor

Pastor Sacred Heart Church, Oklahoma City

/s/ Reverend Edward J. Weisenburger

V.G., Pastor the Cathedral of Our Lady

of Perpetual Help, Oklahoma City

Page 2 of 2 – Pledge of Resistance

/s/ Reverend Ray Ackerman

Pastor St. Thomas More University Parish, Norman

/s/ Reverend Joseph Jacobi

Pastor St. Eugene Church, Oklahoma City

/s/ Reverend Timothy D. Luschen

St. Monica Church, Edmond

/s/ Reverend Joachim Spexarth, OSB

Sub-prior St. Gregory's Abbey, Shawnee

/s/ Reverend Charles Murphy

Pastor St. Francis of Assisi Church, Oklahoma City

/s/ Reverend Bruce Natsuhara

Pastor St. Joseph Old Cathedral, Oklahoma City

/s/ Reverend Thomas J. Boyer

Pastor St. Mark the Evangelist Church, Norman

/s/ Reverend Scott A. Boeckman

Pastor St. Peter Church, Woodward

Barbara Ross

Social Concerns Office

Diocese of Jefferson City

P O Box 104900

Jefferson City, MO 65110-4900

**explora** · 11-09-2007, 11:11 PM

**SunDevilUSA** · 11-10-2007, 04:38 AM

The American people owe their thanks to the people of Oklahoma for enacting such a farsighted law. Enforcement of the immigration laws is a necessary step to bring the problem of arrogant illegal aliens under control.

As to the "creation of an underclass," as envisioned by the apologist Chuck, he incorrectly presupposes that illegal aliens have any class to begin with.

Beginning January 1, Arizona's anti-illegal-alien law becomes effective...and the classless will be leaving in droves.

**explora** · 11-10-2007, 05:06 AM

Just who do you think you are?

A worthless nobody.

**ProudUSC** · 11-10-2007, 05:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As to the "creation of an underclass," as envisioned by the apologist Chuck, he incorrectly presupposes that illegal aliens have any class to begin with. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SunDevil - contrary to your self-serving beliefs, all people have a class. All people are human beings, not just white upper class people; but ALL people!!!! You should step down from your pedestal and take some time to study the various facets of immigration. You might be surprised what you can learn.

**explora** · 11-10-2007, 05:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SunDevilUSA:
The American people owe their thanks to the people of Oklahoma for enacting such a farsighted law. Enforcement of the immigration laws is a necessary step to bring the problem of arrogant illegal aliens under control.

As to the "creation of an underclass," as envisioned by the apologist Chuck, he incorrectly presupposes that illegal aliens have any class to begin with.

Beginning January 1, Arizona's anti-illegal-alien law becomes effective...and the classless will be leaving in droves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

devildoll - YOU STINK!!

**explora** · 11-10-2007, 05:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SunDevilUSA:
The American people owe their thanks to the people of Oklahoma for enacting such a farsighted law. Enforcement of the immigration laws is a necessary step to bring the problem of arrogant illegal aliens under control.

As to the "creation of an underclass," as envisioned by the apologist Chuck, he incorrectly presupposes that illegal aliens have any class to begin with.

Beginning January 1, Arizona's anti-illegal-alien law becomes effective...and the classless will be leaving in droves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

devildoll - you're a horses +++

**Hudson** · 11-10-2007, 07:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SunDevilUSA:
The American people owe their thanks to the people of Oklahoma for enacting such a farsighted law. Enforcement of the immigration laws is a necessary step to bring the problem of arrogant illegal aliens under control.

As to the "creation of an underclass," as envisioned by the apologist Chuck, he incorrectly presupposes that illegal aliens have any class to begin with.

Beginning January 1, Arizona's anti-illegal-alien law becomes effective...and the classless will be leaving in droves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You might want to rethink that stance Sundevil. This bill is not an affirmation of INA 287g program. This bill does violate certain aspect of the United States Constitution.

first and foremost, the bill places all blame lf lawlessness and hardship on illegal aliens. It states, "The State of Oklahoma finds that illegal immigration is causing economic hardship and lawlessness in this state and that illegal immigration is encouraged when public agencies within this state provide public benefits without verifying immigration status." this statment ignores the Hazelton opinion, and ignores the economic realities that currently influence state and national GDP (economy).

Second, the bill makes it a crime, not by willful or fraudulent means, but by reckless means if you transport an illegal alien. An illegal alien can be someone who entered without inspection or by visa overstay. In other words, if you simply did not know or maybe you have known, you will be in violation of the law. This violates due process and Article 1V, Secton 4 of the US Constitution.

Finally, the bill attempts to regulate immigration, a duty that is explicitly reserved to the Federal Government. Should be struk down when SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) will hear the Hazelton case.

HB 1804

**Hudson** · 11-10-2007, 08:05 AM

Lawsuit halts immigration reform
Latino clergy group charges that a House bill is unconstitutional
By Michele Kraak
Staff Writer

A Tulsa-based Latino group has filed a temporary restraining order against a bill that is supposed to go into effect Nov. 1.

House Bill 1804, which Gov. Brad Henry signed into law May 8, states that it is illegal to knowingly transport or harbor an illegal alien and doing so is a felony.

All businesses, companies and agencies must determine the citizenship status of all employees hired on or after Nov. 1, and police officers who arrest someone for a felony or for driving under the influence must determine the citizenship status of that person.

National Coalition of Latino Clergy Inc./CONLAMIC filed its initial lawsuit Monday, asking for a declaration of rights and for the court to permanently prohibit the act from going into effect.
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The temporary restraining order filed Thursday would prohibit the act from taking effect until the case is decided. The group's attorney said he expects to hear an answer about the injunction sometime early next week.

The act is called the Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act of 2007, but law enforcement agencies and courthouses throughout the state have expressed concern about the bill because of the added manpower it will require.

In the petition, the group said the law violates the United States and Oklahoma Constitutions, specifically the plaintiffs' due process and equal protection rights.

Although the bill is not scheduled to take effect until Nov. 1, the petition said that the amount of media attention it has received has "served as a catalyst for increased enforcement efforts by local and state authorities as well as numerous cases of racial profiling."

Prosecuting attorney Rohit Sharma said the group has filed for an expedited hearing and said he thinks it has a good chance of winning.

"[The new law] is allowing the state of Oklahoma to enforce immigration laws, but immigration laws are federal laws," Sharma said. "(House Bill) 1804 is not a constitutional law."

Rep. Randy Terrill and Sen. Jim Williamson coauthored the bill. Williamson said the plaintiffs' argument is based on the preemption doctrine from the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution, which states that any federal law trumps any conflicting state law.

"That's their allegation, [but] we have worked very hard with our legal staff at the legislative level to make sure that we came within the constitutional guidelines, and that we were only dealing with subjects that the states have jurisdiction to deal with," Williamson said.

He said the bill was not created to increase or support racial profiling but to help minimize a legal issue.

"We have had a lot of pressure from constituents in our district to enforce immigration laws, so we felt HB 1804 was necessary to help enforce the fight against illegal immigration," Williamson said.

The bill coincides with a Department of Homeland Security program that allows employers to check on the immigration and citizenship status of employees through electronic means. Recently, DHS partnered with the Social Security Administration to match social security numbers with names. Through the E-Verify system, employers are first required to check the SSA program.

If the social security number matches the name, the employer then sends that information to DHS for the citizenship check.

The E-Verify system stems from The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986.

The act subjects employers to criminal and civil liability for knowingly hiring an illegal immigrant.

In August, DHS proposed a new regulation that expanded the definition of "knowingly" hiring an illegal alien.

The regulation said if employers do not use the E-Verify system when hiring employees and they are caught hiring illegal aliens, they can be found to have knowingly hired them.

The regulation, called Safe-Harbor Procedures for Employers Who Receive a No-Match Letter, was issued Aug. 15 and was supposed to take effect Sept. 14, but the American Federation of Labor filed a temporary restraining order against the regulation.

The court granted the injunction because of several flaws in the E-Verify system.

An OSU attorney said had the regulation passed, many innocent people could have lost their jobs.

"There are all kinds of failures to match for lots of reasons," Scott Fern said. "They argued to a federal judge in San Francisco that millions of workers across the country potentially could lose their jobs because of errors in the federal system."

About a week ago, the judge issued the second level of injunctive relief, which means it is likely the rule will be permanently stopped.

Sharma said he hopes to get the same result as the labor unions in California.

"We want to have 1804 either have a permanent injunction on it or to have it removed entirely," Sharma said.

When the temporary restraining order was placed on the E-Verify system, it put a hold on the system across the U.S. However, HB 1804 requires public employers in Oklahoma to use it to check the citizenship status of potential employees.

Williamson said the injunction against the system has no bearing on the bill.

"As long as the employers are making an attempt to use the system, then they will follow the dictates of the law," Williamson said. "If another court has placed some sort of an injunction on that, then until that injunction is lifted, I don't see how employers here can be held responsible."

Enforcing the law is another major issue. Law enforcement agencies across the state have complained about not having a large enough staff or budget to enforce every aspect of the regulation. A Payne County special judge said the court will have to consider more than simply the constitutionality of the rule.

"[The court has] to determine whether or not it's feasible, economical and constitutional," Phillip Corley said. "Anyone from a guy that employs a hundred people to a guy that has a housekeeper cleaning his house [can be held liable]."

Corley said the financial side could favor the plaintiff.

"A lot of times, legislation is enacted, but it's not funded," Corley said. "They don't fund the police that are going to be doing it or teachers that are going to have to do certain things.

"They don't come up with the money, so therefore laws get passed that can't be functionally followed."
Source

**explora** · 11-10-2007, 08:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As to the "creation of an underclass," as envisioned by the apologist Chuck, he incorrectly presupposes that illegal aliens have any class to begin with. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SunDevil - contrary to your self-serving beliefs, all people have a class. All people are human beings, not just white upper class people; but ALL people!!!! You should step down from your pedestal and take some time to study the various facets of immigration. You might be surprised what you can learn. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

**Someone12** · 11-12-2007, 01:10 PM

the folks in Oklahoma understand and respect the laws of the US..and those greedy pastors, bishops, etc, just want more docile sheep to donate $$$ into their already overstuffed coffers....hey all you religious types...if god wants you to 'spread the word' and you claim you need money to do so (question: why didn't Jesus go out and sell books/tapes, blessed objects, etc??) then why doesn't your deity just drop a ton of gold in your living room? Why the constant need for cash???? (hint: to pay off the pedophile lawsuits...nice bunch of 'religious' types, those catholic priests...)

**chuck** · 11-12-2007, 07:02 PM

Someone 12's post is evil. It comes out of man's lessor nature.'m not usually a praying person but I will say a prayer for you.

**klinus** · 11-12-2007, 07:40 PM

L.A. Church to Settle Abuse Cases in Record Deal

The settlements push the total amount paid out by the U.S. church since 1950 to more than $2 billion, with about a quarter of that coming from the Los Angeles archdiocese. A judge must sign off on the agreement

Is it Amen or

**Rough Neighbor** · 11-13-2007, 05:51 AM

The Catholic Church s e x scandals are being overblown by undue media focus, whereas, Catholics constitute just a small fraction of the American Christendom, and despite the fact of the matter being that scandals of the same nature pervade all churches in the United States.

This is (probably) a remnant of the "anti-clericalism" or "anti-Catholicism" of old that dated back from the "Reformation Era" of the early 16th century Europe; by the predominantly Protestant Jamestown settlers of the New World in the early 1600's; the prejudice geared towards mostly Irish Catholic immigrants in mid-1800's as the cause of social ills by the nativist movement and KKK; until the insidious anti-Catholic sentiments of today (though more tamed and implicit) encompassing almost every fabric of the modern American society.

The Holy Scripture says: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone..." (John 8:7)

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