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Senate Judiciary begin debate on Immigration Issue, Tough debate divides Senator

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  • #16
    First, ImmortalE, the contributions of illegal aliens to Social Security (based on the suspension file, which includes literally decades of unclaimed monies) doesn't even cover one year's worth of payments by Social Security. Then, there's the little matter of their payments actually replacing those of US citizens who have been done out of jobs, and who may now be on welfare. If illegal aliens were legalized and brought into the system, or were able to collect through totalization agreements such as the one with Mexico, that would actually serve to hasten the shortfall in the system. Furthermore, low wage workers such as illegal aliens would be even if legalized, collect disproportionately more than they pay in, in comparison with higher wage workers. That's the way the system is set up. So, adding millions of low wage workers would actually threaten the system even more. Also, since low wage workers from the Third World tend to have larger families than citizens or more highly educated immigrants, we'd find our elderly competing with these children for scarce resources such as money to pay for medical care and education.

    There are better alternatives than "open borders" to any difficulties purported social security deficits or "labor shortages" might cause, specifically raising the age at which one is eligible to collect SS (which is already being gradually done), reducing payments to high income pensioners, and more flexible work situations for older workers to keep them on the job longer. "Shortages" would actually serve to raise wages for unattractive jobs, such as nurse's aide, thereby attracting Americans. (And with all the layoffs and dislocations in manufacturing, there are likely to be plenty of low-skilled Americans available.) And of course, there's always selective, legal, and regulated immigration.


    • #17
      Aliba, I am not interested in demagoguery.
      Nor do I think it's a good idea to have "open borders to all who might wish to come" (just as I don't support harshest anti-immigrant measures).

      But I only tell what is coming, no matter you or I like it or not.


      • #18
        No, you're telling what YOU THINK (or hope) is coming, and I have an opposing view.


        • #19
          Nope, I do not just THINK (HOPE) what is to come ( this is something you indulge in all the time), instead I look carefully at past patterns, I analyse overall trends , observe currents and come to conclusion that such and such outcome is most likely to follow.
          So far I was more accurate in my predictions (and confident in doing so) than almost anyone
          on this board.


          • #20
            I do the same, and since I'm probably much older than you (and possibly have lived in the US much longer) I have more history and personal experience to draw on.

            Also, what you're predicting, as you yourself admit, is something that would occur for the first time in the US, "in public opinion and also in energizing powerful pro-immigrant movement, kind that has never existed in US before." Turning points in trends defeat even economists' ability to predict them, and economics is more of a science than predicting human behavior.


            • #21

              What I have is a mental skill, ability to observe and notice slightest waves while also being able to envision entire/whole picture in my imagination, the ability to simultaneously project in my mind large numbers of probabilities and then carefully discriminate the least possible outcomes from the opposite..
              It takes somewhat superior to avergae mind to do that. You can't do that Aliba. Not everybody can do that.

              Best Regards,


              • #22
                My, my, my...such arrogance! (Or, could it be you're off your meds...)


                • #23
                  I knew you wouldn't be able to discern arrogance from truth.
                  By calling me arrogant you just affirm what I said before.

                  Best Regards,


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