Senate Judiciary begin debate on Immigration Issue, Tough debate divides Senator

[marmaduk]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NG1IHHVK21.DTL

Looks like the next round of battle on immigration has began.

I'm surprised by a few comments:

"Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., splitting with fellow Democrats, again voiced strong opposition to a guest worker plan.
Warning that emotions on immigration "run subliminally, and they run deep," she pointed to Proposition 187 -- which passed with the approval of nearly 60 percent of California voters in 1994 -- to bar undocumented immigrants from all state benefits, including public education. Feinstein said she opposed that measure, later struck down by the courts, and "almost lost my election over it."

also:

She said a guest worker program that would "legalize 11 million in one fell swoop" goes too far. She noted that House leaders have warned that they will not accept a guest worker plan.

and another one:

"Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., indicated she remains opposed to Bush's guest worker plan because it might attract more illegal migrants."

Democratic senators are opposing guest worker plan, and if what Fenstein said its true...hmmm, this is really getting interesting...

[marmaduk]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NG1IHHVK21.DTL

Looks like the next round of battle on immigration has began.

I'm surprised by a few comments:

"Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., splitting with fellow Democrats, again voiced strong opposition to a guest worker plan.
Warning that emotions on immigration "run subliminally, and they run deep," she pointed to Proposition 187 -- which passed with the approval of nearly 60 percent of California voters in 1994 -- to bar undocumented immigrants from all state benefits, including public education. Feinstein said she opposed that measure, later struck down by the courts, and "almost lost my election over it."

also:

She said a guest worker program that would "legalize 11 million in one fell swoop" goes too far. She noted that House leaders have warned that they will not accept a guest worker plan.

and another one:

"Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., indicated she remains opposed to Bush's guest worker plan because it might attract more illegal migrants."

Democratic senators are opposing guest worker plan, and if what Fenstein said its true...hmmm, this is really getting interesting...

[Maria]

Radical Democrats are minority - they have no voice or power.
There are more Republican senators who support the guest worke program plus the White House, American Jewish Commitee and all Chridtian Churches and American people who support legalization of 11 millions of undocumented workers in US.
Do not worry we will have it in 2 months.

[antivirus]

Maria, finally there is someone who can see what is about to happen. I hope they fix this problem soon so that we can move on, and fight more dangerous law breakers.

[ImmortalE]

I have long ago predicted what is to come and what is to happen.

Anyone surprised?

P.S. Those Democrats are plausible.
If they support Guest Worker Program, they will indeed be fiercely attacked by their opponents and could certainly lose their seats. And why do you think any Democrat in his/her right mind would want to risk loosing their seat over this issue??????

[Houston]

Debate is useful, all ideas should be taken into consideration to produce a comprehensive bill. Some noted that the Specter initiative is not viable because it would require illegals to exit the United States to process an application. I do not see a problem with that because it would distribute the burden among different consulates.
Others argue that a guest worker program would too much for USCIS to handle, but if that is true, how is USCIS supposed to handle deportation proceedings for an even greater number of immigrants? These proceedings are not much less complex than a typical adjustment case.
In my humble opinion, all options and initiatives should be considered.
There's proposals that balance the definition of immediate relatives for LPR's and citizens, although not related to the guest worker program, they are just and should be considered.
There's also other bills offering the granting of benefits based on equity. This is a long recognized point of view, INA actually considers equity in many different ways. For instance, the expedited removal only apply to those in the U.S. illegally with only a brief period of physical presence.
It would be fair to only grant benefits by adjustment to only those with, say, three or more years of residency in the U.S. and require all others to depart and process their applications through the consulate. That would eliminate any incentive to potential illegal immigrants and balance the load between DHS and DOS.
The fact is that the situation regarding those already present must take priority over future applicants. Any solution must be constitutional but also enforceable, fair and simple enough to be practical and viable. As the article noted, just because a law is passed does not mean that it will be enforced. The law must be constitutional and fair in principle.
I strongly believe in an equity-based program, not some unrestricted, amnesty-like initiative.

[ImmortalE]

Houston,
why do you mislead?

Specter Bill DOES what you suggest should be done.
Anyone present before 2004 gets temporary status while in US (provided they meet other requirements), those who arrived later get processed through the Consulates.
It also addresses the issue of LPR relatives, Permanent Skilled workers, H-1bs and etc.

The thing is: Specter Bill won't pass.
And everybody knows that.

But here is another FACT: what Immigrants REALLY will benefit from is some kind of EXTREMELY HARSH Bill, something like HR4437.
It's a kind of a Bill that will have consequences so egregeously inhuman (like burning people in Aushwitz) that nothing less of equally powerfull pro-immigration movement will emerge out of it.

[Houston]

But the Specter bill also includes a guest worker program!
Most of the bills introduced in the Senate are similar in many ways, they all share many common statutes and provisions. Sen. Specter built his proposal to accommodate many provisions of the House bill in a fair and constitutional way. If the guest worker program is eliminated from the Specter bill it could mean a quick passage by the House and a first, enforcement-only step towards immigration reform.

[ImmortalE]

But the Specter bill also includes a guest worker program!

I don't think I wrote that it doesn't include it. Did I?

If the guest worker program is eliminated from the Specter bill it could mean a quick passage by the House and a first, enforcement-only step towards immigration reform.

I. And that's what will happen, if anything is to pass Congress anytime soon.

II. So called "second" step is not what is projected or planned.

In fact, once "enforcement only" Bill is passed, House will most staunchly (like never before) oppose ANY sort of "second" step that would be more lenient to immigrants.

But it is the FORCE of Circumstances (the unplanned consequences) of the "first step" that would eventually bring about the birth of inevitable and powerful pro-immigration movement.

[Houston]

The one difference is that, even without the guest worker program, the Specter bill is fair, just and constitutional. A big improvement over H.R.4437.

[ImmortalE]

As I mentioned earlier, those who wrote HR4437 probably didn't think that it would pass just as is, but wanted some "bargaining leverage". So what will eventually get though conference talks is what they had in their minds in the first place.

[Houston]

I have to agree that, without the guest worker program, the House would be pleased with the rest of the Specter bill.

[sportsfan]

without guest worker program, it's already a moot point since bush will veto the bill. everybody in congress knows this and knows where the president's position is ,not to mention he's on record for such program.

[Radhe]

Intereting reading about all the possible scenarios on the current debate in the senate judiciary committee. Its seems like this issue has gained momentum there will be some sort of bill or reform coming out soon . Its too early to say what will happen. What i don't understand is why is the cut off date for illegal immigrants Jan 7 2004. Whats happens to the people who came after Jan 7 2004. Do they have to go back and get processed by the consulate and if yes what sense and purpose does that serve? US consulates are already overwhelmed. Why not have the law the same for all the undocumented so that this problem is dealt with. Such cut off dates are only going to result in fraud by a large number of applicants just like in the 1986 amnesty. Lets see sensible reform.

[ImmortalE]

On Jan. 2004 President Bush announced that he wants Congress to pass Guest-Worker program.

The idea behind cut-off date is that noone benefits from "guest-Worker" program who KNEW of Presidents proposal before entering the country and becoming illegal.
It is PLAUSIBLE (and yes, they would have to go back and get processed through Consulates).


But the matter of reality is that Specter Bill won't pass. Period. To be exact: temp. non-immigrant provisions of his Bill won't pass (nor will McCain-Kennedy or Cornyn-Kyl versions).


Houston, of course House will be happy with ANY measure that is "Enforcement Only".
Specter Bill, stripped of temp. non-immigrant worker provisions, is just a more thoughtfully written version of HR4437.

But let me also add that House will succeed on PAPER ONLY. There simply DOESN'T EXIST enough money in budget to be allocated for full-scale enforcement against 11-20 mln. people. Anything short of "FULL-SCALE REAL enforcement" will be nothing more but a "paper tiger" to all those day-laborers who will just laugh this measure off.

Yes, there will be relatively increased numbers of deportations, may be even jail-sentences for some visa overstays above 1 second, but this will also powerfully backfire : in public opinion and also in energizing powerful pro-immigrant movement, kind that has never existed in US before.

Overall result of all this anti-immigrant madness will be that by year 2010-2015 so great a pressure will be built that borders will literally be opened to all immigrants who might wish to come here
(part of the pressure will stem from increased labor-shortages and deficits in Social Security payments - as was predicted by former Chariman of Fed).



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Over-exited , idealistic animal-herd runs in one and then in totally opposing direction, in the meantime destroying and crushing everything on it's way.