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Work Visa, H-1B also in a Slavery

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  • #16
    Cass, did anyone tell you I'm ARAB American, browner than my Hispanic sister-in-law? My dislike for the H1-B program is economic, pure and simple.

    My dislike for whiners who help to create the situation they're in through their own actions is personal, however.


    • #17
      Marm, Please tell me--If H1-B's are such valuable employees, then why aren't companies pushing to bring them on green cards? Or even pushing to have the number of green cards and processing speeded up?

      Because what they are is cheaper labor. Cheaper because the employer has control over them by virtue of them wanting a green card, so like our OP, they don't push for raises, and they stay with the company through the GC process. It's also worth noting that Microsoft's Bill Gates has been pushing for unlimited H1-Bs, while salary increases at Microsoft are barely keeping pace with inflation. That's not what would happen IF there were truly a shortage of workers--salaries would be soaring.


      • #18
        Sure. Companies can sponsor you for a GC BEFORE you start work. That was the usual practice until employers found out that they could gain control over employees (and keep costs down) by using H1-B. If you're THAT valuable and unique, companies should be willing to do this.


        • #19
          No, H1-B does not REQUIRE that workers be paid the prevailing wage. It requires that employers ATTEST (that is, promise) that they are paying the prevailing wage, and it leaves it to the employer how it determines the prevailing wage. And of course, the presence of large numbers of H1-Bs in an industry helps to drive down the prevailing wage anyway. A stronger test ONLY kicks in if H1-Bs comprise more than 15 percent of a company's worldwide workforce, which eliminates most companies. Do you believe everything your employer tells you? No wonder they love H1-Bs! Nor does H1-B REQUIRE that Americans be given preference in hiring or layoffs. They don't even really need to show that they tried to hire Americans until they sponsor the employee for a green card, and then there are ways around it. A doctor on H1-B asked for help with this, and was told to have his company's lawyer advertise the position in a journal outside his specialty, that is, if the job's for a surgeon, advertise in a family practice journal. And we won't even get into the issue of fraud by both employers and employees, which the GAO has found common in both the H1-B and L-1 programs.

          Oh, yes--the fact that my brother (in his forties) was laid off, along with lots of other techies his age, shows that there is NO SHORTAGE of engineers and the like. What is shows is that companies prefer to hire younger or foreign workers who tend to be cheaper. That's what you all have to look forward to, and had better plan for. Start pinching your pennies now, because you may end up having to take an early retirement to your home country.


          • #20
            I never for a moment suggested that all or even most H1-Bs are corrupt. They are simply looking out for their own interests under the laws as written. That those interests benefit their employers to the detriment of Americans is symptomatic of what we see going on with Enron, Jack Abramoff, Dubai Ports, the Iraq War, Katrina, and the current debate over legalizing illegal aliens. Special interests, especially businesses, lobby both parties for laws and activities which benefit THEM, while their businesses lay off middle class Americans and throw most of the tax burden on them. You'll note no mention in the current debate on "guest worker" programs about penalizing the employers who hired illegal aliens, now do you?


            • #21
              1) Absolutely.
              2) Agreed.
              My argument against the OP is on how he paint himself and equal himself to being a slave. The option is left open for him to leave if he doesn't like the way he's being treated right now, just like any other employee would. He made a conscious choice to stay instead.

              There're hundreds of thousands of employment based greencard on the queue right now. I think that's proof enough that company considered the professional as an integral part of the company. Now granted, there're those who come or supplied by headhunters company and the company couldn't care less whether they stay or not once the 6yr term expires.
              I won't argue the fact that H1 are sometimes paid lower than their US equivalent (I don't want to even talk about L1, which I think is the real problem). But those who've gone across to the LC stage have to have salary that meet the Labor Dept criterias. If those are considered too low, then the problem lies within the Labor folks (yes, I do think their salary requirement are indeed low).
              IMO, the problem faced by your brother is similar to most problem faced by older worker. They earn/cost too much in the eye of the company and they can be replaced by cheaper/younger worker. Yet they're not old enough to retire so they're stuck in very unfavorable situation.


              • #22
                I'm not arguing that companies don't want professionals, what I question is how many of them they would actually "need" IF the employee were free from the start to change jobs. IF the employer actually had to prove that no workers, including older workers, were available. (Actually, employment discrimination on age is illegal, but companies can do it because it's hard to prove.) The green card acts as a subsidy allowing companies to pay less to many H1-Bs in salary, such as our OP, and more importantly to many companies, makes it tough for the worker to change jobs without losing his place in the queue.

                In other words, the "need" for professional workers is greatly inflated. The H1-B program also serves to deter American kids from entering these professions because they know that companies prefer cheaper H1-Bs and wages aren't rising to attract the kids. When recent immigrant entrepreneurs tell you that their kids won't go into these fields for that reason, as they did in a Washington Post article a few months ago, you have to wonder...


                • #23
                  By the way, many of us Americans have the funny little idea that our immigration policy is supposed to protect us from abuses such as those perpetrated by companies that want to bring in workers primarily because they're cheaper. That's what the whole DOL process is predicated on. I eager would you be to work in the U.S. if the green card (a public benefit) weren't offered as part of the package? I bet you'd negotiate salary and benefits one hell of a lot harder.


                  • #24
                    Sure, I will negotiate to get back the taxes I paid to be returned back to me

                    Some of the statements given by Aliba clearly state that he is not aware of many immigration rules and procedures. All labor certifications are cleared by DOL after giving proof that there is no competing American worker for the skill set required. There is no question of substituting with a cheap labor, as the prevailing wage limit needs to be adhered to.

                    The technology is changing so fast and every day one need to update them in IT industry. One who could not able to do so will soon be outdated. Though experience in this field is required, the required skill set is more important. This is how the capitalism works and there is no point in Aliba complaining about it.

                    If the immigrants are not allowed in this country, the jobs will go to them Instead of some loosing the job, it will end up with the government loosing tax dollars too.


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