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  • Worker Program? BAD IDEA

    I don't think the gov't needs to come up with any worker program, there is no way that would work. People would come to the US on that visa and they wouldn't go back. Employers should pay decent wages to citizens, maybe even get people on welfare to do these jobs??? However, I think they should loosen some of qualifications on existing visas or at least make it easier to obtain a green card when on a visa. IE: the H1B Visa, you need to go through the long drawn out process of Labor Cert, however, if you are on an H1B Visa, you more than likely already have a degree. Why not make it more easier for people on this Visa to get a green card, they are educated, and wouldn't the US rather have educated people immigrating (at least easier)than non educated people? - Is just a thought.

  • #2
    I don't think the gov't needs to come up with any worker program, there is no way that would work. People would come to the US on that visa and they wouldn't go back. Employers should pay decent wages to citizens, maybe even get people on welfare to do these jobs??? However, I think they should loosen some of qualifications on existing visas or at least make it easier to obtain a green card when on a visa. IE: the H1B Visa, you need to go through the long drawn out process of Labor Cert, however, if you are on an H1B Visa, you more than likely already have a degree. Why not make it more easier for people on this Visa to get a green card, they are educated, and wouldn't the US rather have educated people immigrating (at least easier)than non educated people? - Is just a thought.

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    • #3
      Jeff--There is NO LABOR CERTIFICATION TO GET AN H1-B visa, and few real checks on its use. The result is that many companies have used and abused the process (the GAO reports on this) to hire pretty much anyone they wanted to, from computer programmers to accountants, to cooks. One Indian immigrant in California misused the H1-B to bring over young girls from his village as *** slaves. He was only found out when one of the girls injured herself, and local school newspaper followed up on the matter because the reporter thought the 17-year-old girl should have been a student at the school. She wasn't.

      A few "H1-B dependent" employers for whom H1-bs are more than 15 percent of their total workforce may have to "attest" that they can't find workers, but labor certification doesn't come into play until such time as the company chooses to sponsor an H1-B for a green card. That 15 percent, again, is for the TOTAL workforce, so if a company wants to hire its entire IT function from India, the 15 percent is based on the total global workforce (product, marketing, human resources, IT, etc.).

      By the way, I read a report today from the Hindustan Times that claims that Indians have become 10 percent of our illegal workforce, largely in the past five years. Don't know how they got those figures, but I'd guess that if it's true, it's largely due to abuses of the H1-B program--workers who were brought over, not sponsored for green cards, and who couldn't find another job in their field.

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      • #4
        Aliba, I know there is no labor cert needed to get an H1B (did write it wrong?) But you have to go thru labor cert to get a green card.

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        • #5
          Your post was a bit confusing on this, and I wanted to clarify because many people, especially the press, get it wrong.

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          • #6
            Actually, in my opinion, it would be better to shelve the H1-B and go back to our former practice of requiring a company to hire an employee and get him/her the green card before they start working. That was common practice as recently as the early 1990s, but companies got hooked on having the H1-Bs under their thumbs. The increase in immigrants of all classes, and assorted amnesties, also have made green card processing extremely slow these days.

            Just having any "educated" people isn't a particularly good idea, either, if there's no job for them. The US already has a more highly educated population on the whole than a good chunk of the world, but employers are perfectly willing to dispose of older educated workers in favor of younger, less educated or experienced workers if they think they can save money. I hate to think what they'd do if they could get a worker from overseas with any kind of mediocre degree, but who'd work more cheaply than citizens. Same argument holds about foreign students here--there are plenty who are here not because they're the "best and the brightest" but because mommy and daddy can pay the tuition, and US colleges and universities see them as a source of revenue and are willing to overlook deficiencies.

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            • #7
              gotcha, no sweat. The proposal that Bush came up with for the "worker program" is un-realistic. As anyone with a HS degree could go on this visa be on it for three years, then renew for another three years...whoa....bad idea. not only that, but they would be able to bring their family with them... (spouse and children) - I think Bush knew this program wouldn't work anyway and would never pass, but he wanted to suggest to the Mexican community that he was doing something for them in order to secure legal Mexican/American votes.

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              • #8
                I think he's trying to play both sides of his party--appease the "cheap labor" Republicans, but pay lip service to law and order types. It's what politicians have been doing for the past several years. From what I've been reading, they're still trying to finagle some kind of "sense of Congress" statement that the US needs a guest worker program into the supposedly strict enforcement bill Sensenbrenner's introduced.

                In my opinion, if workers are needed, then companies should have to prove it and pay for it. None of this nonsense about guest workers. Make the company responsible for proving it needs them and for supporting them, admit them, and make them free to change jobs at will from the start--hence the green cards. The problem with guest worker programs such as H1-B or Bush's proposal is that workers are at the mercy of the employer which distorts the labor market. The illegal aliens we already have have already distorted the market by driving down wages in many fields, and to allow them to adjust status in the country with their current employers would just institutionalize that distortion.

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                • #9
                  Agreed. But, I still think they can make the road to green card a little easier for people on certain Visas. In fact I think they should toughen up the marriage green cards, as there seem to be alot of people scamming their way thru that.

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                  • #10
                    And how could they make it "easier"? They are doing something called PERM which is supposed to make Labor Certification easier, but this is a new program and I don't know how it's working. If you mean "make it easier" in the sense of letting anyone who has a college degree get a green card, well, see my comments above.

                    Generally, the green card process needs to be speeded up, but in the 1990s, it was pretty speedy. Fellow grad students from India were able to get green cards processed quickly and to even bring over spouses within 6 months after getting them. What's causing the problems now is that we have too many people applying for various immigration benefits (every time there's a new TPS, mini amnesty, or the like), too many programs (each time there's a new program, there are new rules to make, new procedures to develop, new people to train), and the big sticker, a confused and dysfunctional bureaucracy with conflicting mandates. By the way, when the H1-B cap was increased to 195,000 (plus exemptions for scholars, etc.) in 2000, Congress did it in full knowledge that there were only 140,000 employment-based green cards, and country caps within those. As you might guess, this has complicated matters for H1-Bs desiring green cards--there simply aren't enough each year.

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                    • #11
                      I totally agree that green cards via marriage should be looked at much more closely.

                      My ex tried every way possible to get me to marry him in Egypt, but I insisted on getting married in America. I would have liked to spent more time with him, but the fiance visa only allows 90-days. He wanted to get married as soon as he arrived. I suggested we wait until February. He begged me and since I loved him, went along. Looking back, it would have been much more difficult for him to keep up his act for three months and in that amount of time I probably would have realized he was using me.

                      Unfortunately I can't turn back the hands of time and undo the biggest mistake I ever made.

                      It would be nice if couples were required to attend counseling at their own expense prior to foreign nationals receiving conditional or permanent resident status. I also strongly believe that if someone comes to US claiming it is because they love USC if the marriage fails soon after arrival they should depart and if it only lasts past the issuance of green card it should be looked at.

                      From everything I read on here and visajourney.com it seems that getting married to a USC is the most common and easiest way to get a green card. I feel like such a bigdummy when I see how many men come to this country after meeting a woman online and convincing her that he is deeply in love. I am still kicking myself for believing my ex loved me.

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                      • #12
                        Aliba, I have no ideas or suggestions on how to make it easier. Luckily, I didn't have to go thru Labor Cert to get my green card. (EB1) I just know alot of people n H1B, and the deal they have to go thru, maybe just speeding up the process would be good, and PERM isn't all that great.

                        Big Dummy, plenty of foreign women scam USC men too. Either way, there are too many people scamming thru marriage. Also you can become a US citizen faster when you get your green card thru marriage. That is unbelievable!!!

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                        • #13
                          Jeff,

                          Yes, I know men get scammed too and I didn't mean to exclude them - sorry

                          H1B isn't as easy to get as it used to be and sometimes the holder is stuck with the sponsor.

                          From what I know, which I don't claim to be a lot a marriage based green card is by far the easiest one to get. It is was more difficult the number of marriages would most likely decline.

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                          • #14
                            I think we should allow certain illegal aliens to adjust their status in the form of guest worker program like we do allow illegal aliens married to US citizens to obtain their green cards today.

                            Illegal alien married to US citizen can still get their green cards while somebody brought here as an infant or a child is not allowed for any relief or somebody raising US citizens children or somebody who has been paying taxes and who has been trying unsuccessfully to get his green card and his case was screwed up by a lawyer.

                            Not every illegal alien should be treated the same way as it is done today.
                            There is a significant difference between somebody crossing the Mexican border unexpected and not paying taxes and somebody who was brought as a child and overstayed.

                            Make the guest worker program happened or be the hard line Nazi-Republican like Someone1, Aliba.

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                            • #15
                              Unfortunately, what situation the kid is in is directly because of the actions of his/her parents, and to ignore the illegality is to reward the parent because the child would eventually be able to sponsor them for legal residency. If we hadn't had so many parents bringing kids illegally, then it wouldn't be a problem to say we can forgive it. But advocates claim 65,000 kids who are here illegally graduate from high school each year. That's a lot of law-breaking to overlook.

                              Furthermore, I really don't see the rationale for saying that a kid who's here illegally somehow deserves automatic residency. If his parents could leave the place they were raised in to come here illegally, there's no real reason why the kid can't return to the country he is really a citizen of. In fact, taking the education he's gotten here would benefit his homeland far more than it's likely to make a difference here.

                              By the way, I'm an Arab (therefore Semitic, and the very thing the Nazis sought to wipe out), and a Democrat. And just who is going to get to decide which lawbreakers get punished and which don't? You? You're going to pick the people you like, say, kids, but everyone else goes back? And which kids--you came here at 17, it's ok? But 18, you're out of here? That's how corruption works--the laws get selectively enforced, with no accountability to the public. As it is, kids who are here illegally are able to, perhaps, legalize through marriage to an American or through appeal to a judge in deportation proceedings. This is done on a case-by-case basis, and the record is there for all to see. Kids here illegally are also able to return to their homelands before the age of 18 without facing a bar, and could apply to come legally, perhaps on a student visa. But a blanket amnesty, with citizenship for the kids and their parents at the end of it--no way.

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