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  • Marta and Juan.

    They're human as we are.
    And they were not as fortunate to be born in the USA.

    Freedom1.
    --------------------------

    Copyright 2006 Fort Worth Star--Telegram All Rights Reserved Fort Worth Star--Telegram (Texas)


    Half a million people poured into the streets of Los Angeles on Saturday, chanting slogans in Spanish and waving the Mexican flag, to protest the various Republican--sponsored proposals in Congress that would demonize illegal immigrants.

    Hundreds marched Monday in Detroit, which, last I checked, is nowhere near the Mexican border. Tens of thousands have demonstrated in Phoenix, Denver and other cities across the country. In every case, the crowds were mostly Latino.

    We all know that Latinos are the nation's largest minority and that most of the people in those demonstrations either were born in the United States or are here legally. But we also know that at least some of those protesters had gone through the experience of crossing the border illegally under the tutelage of avaricious people--smugglers known as "coyotes."
    At least some had been here for months or years, working to send money home to their families, keeping their heads down, somehow managing to carve out lives for themselves and their children.
    Who are they? After the demonstrations were over, where did they go? Are they so diabolically clever at hiding in plain sight? Or is it that the rest of us refuse to see them because by seeing them we would have to acknowledge their humanity?

    That willful blindness is why the debate on illegal immigration is so hypocritical. If we lump undocumented immigrants into an undifferentiated mass of Those People, we can avoid really looking at the immigrant experience. And we can convince ourselves that it is somehow different from the periodic waves of immigration that have shaped this nation ---- that suddenly it is not an issue or even a problem but an urgent crisis.

    There are an estimated 12 million immigrants in the United States illegally. That many people don't just fade into the woodwork. The fact is, we see undocumented immigrants every day.
    Maybe they vacuum your office at night. Maybe they landscape your garden or clean your house or cook the food at your favorite restaurant. You probably don't know where they live. You probably don't know their children's names or where they go to school. You probably don't know what it was like for them to buy a car or even get a driver's license.
    You probably don't know where they get medical care.
    If you did know these things about individual immigrants, whether they're from Mexico or El Salvador or China or Brazil, I think you would find the debate in Congress almost grotesque.

    Should we declare that they are all criminals? Should we make criminals of the people who give them jobs, too?
    Should we build a BerlinWall along the border? It's possible to take such draconian measures against Those People ---- but not against lovely Marta, who waxes your floors, or genial Juan, who tends your azaleas. So to side with the xenophobes, you have to know as little about Marta and Juan as possible.
    In terms of Realpolitik, the immigration issue is easy: If the Republican leadership in Congress wants to alienate Latino voters and drive them into the embrace of the Democratic Party, it's tempting to let them do it. But that means ignoring the reality that we're talking about individuals, not Those People. And it means abandoning the process of inflow, adaptation and renewal that has made this nation of immigrants so dynamic and resourceful.

    Marta and Juan Fort Worth Star-Telegram (Texas) March 29, 2006 Wednesday I don't get many chances to say that George W. Bush is right, but I think he really understands the immigration issue on both the political and the personal level. His guest worker program is a mess. Does he really expect millions of people to report for deportation? Won't employers have an incentive to exploit the guest workers when they know they will never have citizenship and therefore will never have any political clout? But I do give the president credit for seeking a compromise that will quiet the nativists in his party and maybe buy some time for cooler heads to prevail.

    Much better is the proposal by Sens. John McCain and Edward Kennedy that would declare what amounts to an amnesty for undocumented immigrants. They would both take issue with that characterization, because amnesty is a forbidden word, but that's what it would be ---- "illegals" who reported to authorities would be able to stay in the country and eventually begin the process of seeking citizenship. It seems unlikely, though, that this reasonable plan will fly.

    Whatever Congress does, 12 million people aren't going to pack up and go home overnight. They are here ---- Marta and Juan, not Those People. We see them every day. Let's deal with them as fellow human beings.

    Eugene Robinson is an associate editor of The Washington Post.
    eugenerobinson@washpost.com
    LOAD--DATE: March 29, 2006

  • #2
    They're human as we are.
    And they were not as fortunate to be born in the USA.

    Freedom1.
    --------------------------

    Copyright 2006 Fort Worth Star--Telegram All Rights Reserved Fort Worth Star--Telegram (Texas)


    Half a million people poured into the streets of Los Angeles on Saturday, chanting slogans in Spanish and waving the Mexican flag, to protest the various Republican--sponsored proposals in Congress that would demonize illegal immigrants.

    Hundreds marched Monday in Detroit, which, last I checked, is nowhere near the Mexican border. Tens of thousands have demonstrated in Phoenix, Denver and other cities across the country. In every case, the crowds were mostly Latino.

    We all know that Latinos are the nation's largest minority and that most of the people in those demonstrations either were born in the United States or are here legally. But we also know that at least some of those protesters had gone through the experience of crossing the border illegally under the tutelage of avaricious people--smugglers known as "coyotes."
    At least some had been here for months or years, working to send money home to their families, keeping their heads down, somehow managing to carve out lives for themselves and their children.
    Who are they? After the demonstrations were over, where did they go? Are they so diabolically clever at hiding in plain sight? Or is it that the rest of us refuse to see them because by seeing them we would have to acknowledge their humanity?

    That willful blindness is why the debate on illegal immigration is so hypocritical. If we lump undocumented immigrants into an undifferentiated mass of Those People, we can avoid really looking at the immigrant experience. And we can convince ourselves that it is somehow different from the periodic waves of immigration that have shaped this nation ---- that suddenly it is not an issue or even a problem but an urgent crisis.

    There are an estimated 12 million immigrants in the United States illegally. That many people don't just fade into the woodwork. The fact is, we see undocumented immigrants every day.
    Maybe they vacuum your office at night. Maybe they landscape your garden or clean your house or cook the food at your favorite restaurant. You probably don't know where they live. You probably don't know their children's names or where they go to school. You probably don't know what it was like for them to buy a car or even get a driver's license.
    You probably don't know where they get medical care.
    If you did know these things about individual immigrants, whether they're from Mexico or El Salvador or China or Brazil, I think you would find the debate in Congress almost grotesque.

    Should we declare that they are all criminals? Should we make criminals of the people who give them jobs, too?
    Should we build a BerlinWall along the border? It's possible to take such draconian measures against Those People ---- but not against lovely Marta, who waxes your floors, or genial Juan, who tends your azaleas. So to side with the xenophobes, you have to know as little about Marta and Juan as possible.
    In terms of Realpolitik, the immigration issue is easy: If the Republican leadership in Congress wants to alienate Latino voters and drive them into the embrace of the Democratic Party, it's tempting to let them do it. But that means ignoring the reality that we're talking about individuals, not Those People. And it means abandoning the process of inflow, adaptation and renewal that has made this nation of immigrants so dynamic and resourceful.

    Marta and Juan Fort Worth Star-Telegram (Texas) March 29, 2006 Wednesday I don't get many chances to say that George W. Bush is right, but I think he really understands the immigration issue on both the political and the personal level. His guest worker program is a mess. Does he really expect millions of people to report for deportation? Won't employers have an incentive to exploit the guest workers when they know they will never have citizenship and therefore will never have any political clout? But I do give the president credit for seeking a compromise that will quiet the nativists in his party and maybe buy some time for cooler heads to prevail.

    Much better is the proposal by Sens. John McCain and Edward Kennedy that would declare what amounts to an amnesty for undocumented immigrants. They would both take issue with that characterization, because amnesty is a forbidden word, but that's what it would be ---- "illegals" who reported to authorities would be able to stay in the country and eventually begin the process of seeking citizenship. It seems unlikely, though, that this reasonable plan will fly.

    Whatever Congress does, 12 million people aren't going to pack up and go home overnight. They are here ---- Marta and Juan, not Those People. We see them every day. Let's deal with them as fellow human beings.

    Eugene Robinson is an associate editor of The Washington Post.
    eugenerobinson@washpost.com
    LOAD--DATE: March 29, 2006

    Comment


    • #3
      Quote: "Half a million people poured into the streets of Los Angeles on Saturday, chanting slogans in Spanish and waving the Mexican flag, to protest the various Republican--sponsored proposals in Congress that would demonize illegal immigrants."

      With all due respect, the illegal aliens throwing tantrums on America's streets and waving a foreign flag managed to demonize themselves without any help from Congress.

      As a legal immigrant to America, I am angry that illegal aliens and their apologists think that it is appropriate to disrespect America.

      I am proud to display American flags at my apartment and on my car.

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you been in LA during those marches?
        I have!
        I saw it! 500.000 people carrying flags, every flag of every nation on planet earth with the exception of American flag!
        80% of Mexicans were seen carrying portraits of Bin Laden and more than half of marchers were Muslim-Arabs!
        It is also confirmed that 70% of marchers illegally crossed the border just a day before the planned event!

        Comment


        • #5
          SunDevilUSA: I respect your point of view.
          But I think the reason they were waving their nation's flag was to show the USA that America is not just North America, it's Central and South America as well.

          LieMaster:
          No wonder your user i.d. is called liemaster.
          Not true. I saw the march. The were plenty of American flags. Bin Landen portraits? oh please, grow up.

          Freedom1

          Comment


          • #6
            Freedom1: What? That's a really stupid thing to say.

            What do North, Central and South America have to do with this country?

            Did these people not trek through our southwestern deserts for day after day to escape from the very country that they now claim to love?

            Given that Americans are vastly better educated than the average Mexican illegal alien, I think you can safely assume that the vast majority of Americans are well aware that their country shares the continent with Canada and Mexico...and that there are additional countries on the continents of Central and South America also.

            Please explain why this justifies the stupidity and offense of waving a foreign flag on the streets of America? I hope that they all get to go home to live in the country that they obviously love so much. Hmmm...I guess that they don't love it enough to actually live there!! I guess that they want to be Mexican (unassimilated) in America than their worst nightmare...Mexican in Mexico!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Choke on it, SunRabidUSA... I'm really enjoying it. I would always prefer to be surrounded by hundreds of Juans and Martas, hard working illegal immigrants, than "legal" potential terrorists like yourself. It doesn't matter how feverishly you try to demonstrate that you're "American" by bashing other immigrants, we will always look at you turban-wearing freaks as dangerous nuts. Lastly, those hard working Juans and Martas will soon become legal residents of this country and they will keep working hard, improving their already productive lives. I would be very dissapointed if they started bashing immigrants on message boards. That would be so pathetic... Does it sound familiar?

              Comment


              • #8
                I see that you forgot to take your medications again, whknapp.

                Given that Juan and Marta are likely to be illiterate in Spanish, never mind being illiterate in English, I'm confident that they couldn't contribute to a message board even if they wanted to.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Illegals are bunch of illeterate ,dumb and deaf dirtbags.

                  Also, to secure our Nation we must keep 12 million people in shadows, for as long as possible!

                  Say NO to guest worker amnesty destruction!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When I wrote my last post, I had not read other posts from you, SunRabidUSA. I just did some browsing, and I can tell now that your problem is not with illegal immigrants, but with mexicans. Now I feel sorrier for you, because you will ALWAYS live surrounded by them. Most of southern Arizona was part of Mexico, so there are LOTS of people from mexican origin living there. As a matter of fact, most of them never crossed the border, but the border crossed them. I understand now why you don't have a life. Poor little thing, you're sooo F U C K E D...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      whknapp is an ILLEGAL HACK !

                      We don't need no dirtbag supporter here! Get lost from our board NOW!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        whknapp: I refer you to my above statement about forgetting your medications.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You need medications unless you say NO to Guest Worker Amnesty detruction !!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            KILL MARTA AND JUAN !!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I love Tancredo !!!!!

                              Comment

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