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  • #16
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
    Hudson, I should have expected it. Never filled out a form? Thats the best you can come up with? The forms don't explain how to fill them out? Really? What are those other things that accompany them? Oh yes, instructions. When all else fails read the instructions. Or is that too hard to grasp. If you need further help its available on the USCIS web site. If that isn't enough people can come to sites like this one or as a last resort see an attorney. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Davdah,
    thanks for proving my point! Now where in the instructions will you find the answers to the two situations that I proposed? Answer, no where. There goes your theory that everything is in the instructions. You might find this hard to believe, but a significant number of people in the US do not have access to the internet. Now, if they do not have access to the internet, where do they go? Call USCIS call site? Well, that is a **** shoot in and of itself. Again, for the average individual, and with some cognitive ability, the instructions are not that helpful. They are good about who is eligible to fill out that form, but not that good about explaining certain items on the form. That is what they need improvement in.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What do you have to say about the tax code and those forms? A bit tedious but if a person follows the instructions it isn't that difficult. But then again, if everyone did H&R block would be out of business. Like H&R block the immigration lawyers would take a big hit if the instructions were at least looked at. Think I'm wrong? Here is an example. How many times within the last couple months have people asked about income requirements to be a sponsor? Several. Yet the answers are here on the site in the blue area where it says forms. Bottom line is many people are just lazy and don't want to take the time to research something themselves. They want it handed to them on a silver platter. If they do it themselves without reading the instructions and foul it up they want to blame the form. When in fact its their own fault for lack of due diligence. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Again, my point is that the instructions are merely a guide, not the law itself. H&R Block is a tax return factory, not a CPA firm. Huge Difference with different business clientèle in mind. Anyone who is attempting to file a 1120, 990, 1065, 1139, 1045, 1042, 941, 940, and similar forms will not go to H&R Block They will either do it themselves or have a company do it for them, like a payroll company, for instance. Just as it is with the IRS forms and instructions, so it is with USCIS forms and instructions. Both set of laws are very complicated. For a majority of individuals, the forms and instructions, if they read them and understand them, will help. But if the person has a complicated situation, or an unusual situation, which is more likely, then the forms and instructions will not help all that much. That is where the professionals come in. It all depends on the person and the situation, Davdah.

    [QUOTE[BTW, I create forms & contracts. Mine do have instructions that no one bothers to read.[/QUOTE]
    oh good grief, Leasing contracts are standardized. You can obtain them in a multitude of ways. The contracts I deal with you cannot find on some software program or internet site. They are tailored made to fit the exact situation and tax law. Next thing i know, you will try to compare yourself to Lincoln Properties. That will be too hunny.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

    Comment


    • #17
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
      Who doesn't have internet access? Your brother in West Virginia playing the banjo on his front porch? Ok, that is one. But the majority do. If its important enough a person will figure it out. If they don't then they probably deserve what they get for being lazy.

      You love to twist things. The comment about H&R block was to illistrate how people will not read instructions for simple things. Is a 1040 a or 1040 EZ so difficult? I don't think so but many people pay those clowns to do it for them.


      Who said anything about leasing contracts? Even those are not standardized. Could you use the same lease form for a car as you would a mainframe? Or for that matter from one state to another. No, I don't think so. Same applies for property if that was what you were referring to. Although I wasn't. Hunny? who you calling hunny? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

      There's a multitude of people who don't have internet access. I can walk into the some of the largest libraries on any given day and appointments are made in advance for use of a computer.

      That was a typo Hudson made. He meant 'f'unny. Don't get excited. Got anymore frogs?

      Comment


      • #18
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Who doesn't have internet access? Your brother in West Virginia playing the banjo on his front porch? Ok, that is one. But the majority do. If its important enough a person will figure it out. If they don't then they probably deserve what they get for being lazy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
        Just because you have internee access does not mean everybody does. Those who are 40 and up are less likely to have internet access than ages 39 or below. It is quite common for the child or even grandchild to perform internet searches than the person who requests it. I deal with people whose business is linked to the internet, but the owner does not have access to it. They prefer the old fashioned way of person to person visits, letters, and phone calls. But I aslo remember the dinosaur of the IBM PC AT with a 64 color screen monitor was top of the line, but that was many, many moons ago. things have changed a lot since then.

        As for my brother, he is a VP of a mid size customer service firm.

        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You love to twist things. The comment about H&R block was to illistrate how people will not read instructions for simple things. Is a 1040 a or 1040 EZ so difficult? I don't think so but many people pay those clowns to do it for them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
        Well, you forgot a few such as the 1040A, 1040SS, 1040PR, 1040NR, 1040NREZ, and the various schedules and forms that can be attached to said forms. 1040EZ is the simplest, but also very restrictive to who can use it. But a 1040 can get complicated quickly when a sch k-1, 4797, 6251, Sch E, Sch F, and Sch J are involved. You have neither the expertise nor the general knowledge to know how complicated a tax form can really get. So, here is the challenge to you: where will you put a tax treaty benefit on the 1040?

        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Who said anything about leasing contracts? Even those are not standardized. Could you use the same lease form for a car as you would a mainframe? Or for that matter from one state to another. No, I don't think so. Same applies for property if that was what you were referring to. Although I wasn't. Hunny? who you calling hunny? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
        don't tell me you are getting dementia again. You said, <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BTW, I create forms & contracts. Mine do have instructions that no one bothers to read. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> This was a smirk comment since you create forms and contracts, then it should be easy. My reply to you was that apartment leasing contracts are standardized in the industry. You can even ask the Texas Apartment Association and they will kindly direct you to a couple of web sites. Just because you can change a paragraph or two does not indicate that you are creating anything. You are just utilizing a tool in your industry, just like everyone else.

        A contract for leasing a car is the same whether its a MBW or a Ford, sedan or sports utility vehicle, whether for recreational or business. Leasing contracts are standardized Davdah. I can even use MS Word 2007 to create one using the template they have. And just because it may apply to one does not mean it can apply to all. That is the real world Davdah.
        "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

        Comment


        • #19
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hudson:
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Who doesn't have internet access? Your brother in West Virginia playing the banjo on his front porch? Ok, that is one. But the majority do. If its important enough a person will figure it out. If they don't then they probably deserve what they get for being lazy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
          Just because you have internee access does not mean everybody does. Those who are 40 and up are less likely to have internet access than ages 39 or below. It is quite common for the child or even grandchild to perform internet searches than the person who requests it. I deal with people whose business is linked to the internet, but the owner does not have access to it. They prefer the old fashioned way of person to person visits, letters, and phone calls. But I aslo remember the dinosaur of the IBM PC AT with a 64 color screen monitor was top of the line, but that was many, many moons ago. things have changed a lot since then.

          As for my brother, he is a VP of a mid size customer service firm.

          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You love to twist things. The comment about H&R block was to illistrate how people will not read instructions for simple things. Is a 1040 a or 1040 EZ so difficult? I don't think so but many people pay those clowns to do it for them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
          Well, you forgot a few such as the 1040A, 1040SS, 1040PR, 1040NR, 1040NREZ, and the various schedules and forms that can be attached to said forms. 1040EZ is the simplest, but also very restrictive to who can use it. But a 1040 can get complicated quickly when a sch k-1, 4797, 6251, Sch E, Sch F, and Sch J are involved. You have neither the expertise nor the general knowledge to know how complicated a tax form can really get. So, here is the challenge to you: where will you put a tax treaty benefit on the 1040?

          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Who said anything about leasing contracts? Even those are not standardized. Could you use the same lease form for a car as you would a mainframe? Or for that matter from one state to another. No, I don't think so. Same applies for property if that was what you were referring to. Although I wasn't. Hunny? who you calling hunny? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
          don't tell me you are getting dementia again. You said, <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BTW, I create forms & contracts. Mine do have instructions that no one bothers to read. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> This was a smirk comment since you create forms and contracts, then it should be easy. My reply to you was that apartment leasing contracts are standardized in the industry. You can even ask the Texas Apartment Association and they will kindly direct you to a couple of web sites. Just because you can change a paragraph or two does not indicate that you are creating anything. You are just utilizing a tool in your industry, just like everyone else.

          A contract for leasing a car is the same whether its a MBW or a Ford, sedan or sports utility vehicle, whether for recreational or business. Leasing contracts are standardized Davdah. I can even use MS Word 2007 to create one using the template they have. And just because it may apply to one does not mean it can apply to all. That is the real world Davdah. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
          Internet access in the world
          http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats2.htm

          Breakdown in the US:
          http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats2.htm

          Pew Internet & American Life Project – the source for data on internet usage
          http://www.pewinternet.org/trends/User_Demo_4.26.06.htm

          Comment


          • #20
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Internet access in the world
            http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats2.htm

            Breakdown in the US:
            http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats2.htm

            Pew Internet & American Life Project – the source for data on internet usage
            http://www.pewinternet.org/trends/User_Demo_4.26.06.htm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
            Klinus,
            The last link shows that only use of internet without being defined distinctively. For instance, a majority of those who use the internet use it for business purposes only, or for chat, e-mail, etc. Very limited. There have been no studies that I know of that specifically define internet use. It does not mean a person is capable of searching the internet to find the answers. For instance, Davdah performed an internet search, but the answer he came up with has nothing to do with the answer to that specific question. Now, Davdah, and you, are very capable of internet searches, but if you don't understand the info being given, how can you accurately ascertain the information is correct? The phrase, "the blind is leading the blind" comes very true on this and hence, why there are professionals in each field. it also proves that you simply cannot expect all the relevant information to be contained in the instructions or in publications. A majority, if not most, of the info is there, but it deals only with the more common scenarios, circumstances, etc. I am sure that I cannot know how to fix any computer of any brand by simply reading a book from Barnes and Noble.

            The first tow links use internet access. Since this refers to the number of computers, it may not reflect actual use. For instance, A 45 year old mother, with a husband who works, and two teenage children, the children will be predominately using the internet; yet all four will be counted in the survey as having access. Internet surveys are very misleading, and most people make assumptions about usage.
            "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

            Comment


            • #21
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for the tax forms. Several of what you listed I have to use. As for your challenge. Took me 10 seconds to find a good starting point. Form 1042-S, pub 515, and 8233 depending on employee or independent contractor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
              Well, Davdah, I will give you a C for effort. None of the sources are able to provide an exact answer, which law requires. Form 8233 is for exemption withholding only! More specifically, it is used by nonresident aliens to claim tax treaty benefits on wage income. Since a 1040 refers to people who are USC and Resident aliens for tax purposes, this form does not answer the question. Next, you cited 1042-S. Again, this goes with Form 8233. A nonresident alien will receive this form of FDAP income, which may or may not have tax treaty benefits. It is for Foreign persons. Foreign persons being defined as nonresident aliens, foreign partnerships, corporations, and trusts. Finally, Publication 515 is about nonresident alien withholding. It does not state how a USC can claim a tax treaty benefit. It merely states a USC may claim a tax treaty benefit. Huge difference. And a USC or resident alien will not use form 8233 nor receive a form 1042-S. You want to try again on your internet search?

              Sho, here is the question again: where will you put a tax treaty benefit on the 1040? Remember, a Form 1040 is used by USC and Resident aliens, not nonresident aliens.
              "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

              Comment


              • #22
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
                I said it was a starting point, didn't I. If your a USC then you basically get screwed. No treaty benefit from our Gov. Although a credit may be given for foreign taxes paid. Its line 21 other income. Form is a 2555 or 2555ez.

                Now, I'm sure your going to nitpick this but its generic. How long did it take to figure this out? About 5 minutes. I would assume if someone were in this situation the company they worked for would probably tell them long before April 15th about this little requirement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                Your "starting point" was not even a starting point Davdah. I know you did a Google search on the topic and this was the best you can come up with. Not only that, you gave a very inept, lazy response when you said, "If your a USC then you basically get screwed. No treaty benefit from our Gov." So, here is the answer:
                1. From Publication 519, pp 50-51. If a USC or resident alien is claiming tax treaty benefits on form 1040, they will report the income and claim the benefit on line 21. To the left of that line, they will cite treaty benefit, the treaty country, and article number.

                2. One may need to file form 8833, Treaty based return position disclosure form under Section 6114 or 7701(b). But one must look at the treaty, particularly the savings clause. In some situations, a USC or a resident alien can claim a treaty benefit when one files a Form 1040.

                3. To cite appropriate treaty article, one must look up the treaty and read it! Every treaty has a savings clause. It will state if the treaty has exceptions when a resident under the tie breaker rules can claim the benefit where the source income originated.

                You were citing nonresident alien treaty benefits. This shows you either did not understand the question or understood the information being given to you. Thus, it is not as easy as you think that all the information is in the instructions. With Immigration and Tax law being some of the most complicated law, it is understandable that forms will not be filled out correctly. Furthermore, it can also be understandable. that if one did not fill out the form correctly, then problems will arise. Finally, it is understandable that if problems arise because one did not fill out the form correctly, there would be reasonable remedies. In tax law there is. In immigration law there is not, generally. The waivers are for extreme circumstances which may or may not fit the situation why one is being given deportation. Enter the Servanos. A time lapse when the form was filled out, they were single. As time went by, they got married. And given the fact that laws, procedures, and remedies have changed over that time, the Sercanos are caught in a catch 22 scenario. That is why it is ridiculous when you said "everything is in the instructions." It is not as easy as you think it is and judging from your responses, you have little clue how forms work, process, and apply to relevant law and the situation.
                "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                Comment


                • #23
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now, for mine. Have you seen the lease agreements for Ford and BMW? Different aren't they? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                  AND
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Being that the entire day went by without a response I'm giving you an F based on two things. One, the leases are very different. Two, homework not turned in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                  Didn't know we were on a time schedule. LOL

                  The leases don't look that different. But you do realize that all leases must adhere to the Federal Consumer Leasing Act? And just like purchasing, you can negotiate leasing terms and other offers. But a leasing template is used by the dealership or auto manufacturing company. The terminology is the same whether you lease a BMW, Ford, or other vehicle. That is why the car leasing contracts are standardized which utilizes the lease template, but allows the flexibility of negotiation.
                  "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                  Comment

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