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  • #46
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by explora:

    quote:

    IMMIGRANTS FIGHTING WARS. JUST DOING THE JOBS AMERICANS WON'T DO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That's quite an insult to the hundreds of thousands of Americans currently deployed in Iraq & Afghanistan. One might disagree about the war, but to throw lowly insult such as this is truly a prerogative of select pathetic individual.

    Comment


    • #47
      Nearly 2% of the US Armed Forces - non-citizens; 8% - foreign born naturalized citizens; 18% - US born of IMMIGRANT parents; 22% - US born of 2nd generation IMMIGRANT parents; 32% - US born of 3rd generation IMMIGRANT parents; and the rest are sons and daughters of 4th generation or more IMMIGRANT parents. Now, where is the insult?

      Comment


      • #48
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rough Neighbor:
        Nearly 2% of the US Armed Forces - non-citizens; 8% - foreign born naturalized citizens; 18% - US born of IMMIGRANT parents; 22% - US born of 2nd generation IMMIGRANT parents; 32% - US born of 3rd generation IMMIGRANT parents; and the rest are sons and daughters of 4th generation or more IMMIGRANT parents. Now, where is the insult? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

        And let me guess every single one of those 92% is AMERICANS isn't it? With 50% or more from those that's been here for 4+ generations. Now what does it say about the previous comment that "AMERICANS WON'T DO" it?

        Comment


        • #49
          No, 100% IMMIGRANTS!

          Comment


          • #50
            Since you seemed to lump American and Immigrants as the same, then based on your logic, the argument is moot since its simply saying "Immigrants fighting wars, just doing the jobs Immigrants won't do." It makes no sense whatsoever.

            I simply took offense of those who dare insulting us by saying Americans won't fight in wars, while the proof begs to differ.

            Comment


            • #51
              Since this act is unlikely to pass in our grid-locked Senate, the point is really moot, isn't it?

              Comment


              • #52
                CIR is probably dead for the year, but the Dream Act might pass since its attached to a different bill.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Because the logic is simple: THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN BUILT MY IMMIGRANTS and the military service is intertwined with its total fabric as a nation. Without immigrants, this country is a vast expanse of wasteland. Being so, the term AMERICANS is simply predicated by the advent of IMMIGRANTS then, now, and in the years to come. The subject statement maybe irresponsible, but who's to blame? It's the byproduct of the raging debate and polarized views about the hot-button topic of immigration mess that's all around us that's left unchecked!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by marmaduk:
                    CIR is probably dead for the year, but the Dream Act might pass since its attached to a different bill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Like I was saying . . .

                    Sept. 26, 2007, 8:35AM
                    Hope fades for passage of bill to aid young illegal immigrants


                    By MICHELLE MITTELSTADT
                    Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle Washington Bureau

                    WASHINGTON "” The hope for immediate Senate action on the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to hundreds of thousands of young illegal immigrants, faded Tuesday as the measure's chief Senate sponsor acknowledged he was having difficulty surmounting Republican opposition.

                    Sen. **** Durbin, D-Ill., has been seeking to attach the DREAM Act to the defense authorization bill pending in the Senate. But in an interview Tuesday, he said the DREAM Act isn't among the items on the table as Republican and Democratic leaders discuss ways to quickly wrap up debate on the defense bill.

                    "We haven't given up completely, but the options on this bill are limited,'' Durbin said.

                    "I'm disappointed for thousands of young people whose lives are just in limbo," he added. "They want to move on with their lives and do good things, and unfortunately we haven't been able to pass the laws to make that happen."

                    Immigrant-rights advocates were dismayed by the setback but vowed to find other means to pass the legislation, which they have sought since 2001.

                    "There is no question that this issue doesn't stop here," said Cecilia Muñoz, senior vice president of the National Council of La Raza. "The longer we wait, the more talented young people we close the door of opportunity to."

                    The DREAM Act would allow illegal immigrants who entered the U.S. before the age of 16, and have lived here at least five years, to receive conditional legal status if they have graduated from high school and have a clean record. After six years, they could become permanent legal residents if they serve in the U.S. military for at least two years or complete at least two years of college. As with most green card holders, they could apply for citizenship after five years.

                    The non-partisan Migration Policy Institute estimates slightly more than 1 million high school graduates and children still in school could gain legal status under the legislation.

                    The bill is officially the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act.

                    With conservatives being barraged with calls, faxes and e-mails from anti-illegal immigration groups that view the DREAM Act as a form of amnesty, some Republicans who supported the measure in the past have been reluctant to do so now. Durbin needs 60 votes to surmount an expected filibuster.

                    "We will try to block it," said Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss.

                    Some Senate Republicans, including Texans Kay Bailey Hutchison and John Cornyn, object to the immigration measure being brought up on a defense bill.

                    "Putting extraneous things on this bill isn't helpful," Hutchison said.

                    Other Republicans aren't ready to revisit an immigration debate that imploded in June when the Senate scuttled a sweeping overhaul endorsed by the White House that would have given most illegal immigrants a chance for legal status.

                    "People, I think, want to let the immigration thing cool off a bit before we jump back in," said Sen. Jeff Sessions, an Alabama Republican who helped derail the comprehensive immigration bill.

                    Josh Bernstein, federal policy director for the National Immigration Law Center, predicted DREAM Act supporters eventually will prevail.

                    "The politics is right and the commitment is there," Bernstein said. "We're not giving up."

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by explora:
                      A dog knows when to run when the dog catcher is coming. A man is stupid, he'll stand there and fight and get his as$ whipped.Basic philosophy.

                      DARTHFORCE ASKED:
                      - Speaking of stupid... look at this quote explora wrote; does it make any sense to anyone? ! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


                      Hello Darkforcedher

                      Maybe this analogy will help you to understand Explora's statement..you being a military man commander type....

                      KOREA

                      VIETNAM

                      SOMALIA

                      IRAQ


                      Ruff

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by explora:
                        A dog knows when to run when the dog catcher is coming. A man is stupid, he'll stand there and fight and get his as$ whipped.Basic philosophy.

                        DARTHFORCE ASKED:
                        - Speaking of stupid... look at this quote explora wrote; does it make any sense to anyone? !



                        Hello Darkforcedher

                        Maybe this analogy will help you to understand Explora's statement..you being a military man commander type....

                        KOREA

                        VIETNAM

                        SOMALIA

                        IRAQ


                        Ruff tank

                        Posts: 1716 | Registered: September 27, 2003 Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
                        Ignored post by 4now posted September 26, 2007 12:18 PM Show Post
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                        Repl </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



                        Hey-I get it and I'm not a PhD either.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          4now and chuck,

                          Thank you both!

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Give young immigrants way to earn right to stay

                            By Ruben Navarrette Jr.

                            Article Launched: 10/10/2007 01:32:33 AM PDT

                            Since the demise of comprehensive immigration reform earlier this year, I've been looking for another idea that would give illegal immigrants the chance to become legal but require that those who receive such a privilege give back quite a bit in return.

                            For a while, I thought this sort of thing would never materialize. In fact, you could say, I thought I was dreaming. But now comes the DREAM Act (for Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors). The idea needs adjustments, but it's a step in the right direction. The measure - proposed by Sen. **** Durbin, D-Ill. - would give U.S. citizenship to individuals if they had come to the United States before age 16, graduated from high school or received a GED, and completed two years of college or military service. Durbin tried to insert the idea as an amendment to the defense authorization bill, but Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid nixed it because there wasn't enough support. Reid did promise to bring the DREAM Act to a vote next month.

                            It's the mention of military service that concerns those on the extreme left, who fret that students who can't afford college might be so eager for citizenship that they could wind up in Iraq. Meanwhile, the extreme right thinks that the idea will serve as a magnet for illegal immigration (as opposed to say, jobs) and rejects it as nothing more than - wait for it - amnesty.

                            As usual, both extremes are wrong. But to assuage some of those concerns, I think the DREAM Act should be tweaked so that students have to complete a four-year degree or four-year military enlistment before qualifying, and then they would qualify only for legal residency - not citizenship. Once they become legal, they should have to follow the same steps anyone else does to obtain citizenship. We might also add a third option besides college or the military. How about two years of national service in a poor community within the United States? If the point is to find some way for these young people to contribute to the betterment of a country that is about to grant them legal status, that would surely do the trick.

                            The specifics can be worked out, but let's not lose sight of the real strength of the DREAM Act. It's the quid pro quo of offering illegal immigrants a path to legalization but not making that path a cakewalk. It offers something precious - the right to stay in the United States legally - but it isn't bashful about demanding certain things in return.

                            Every single piece of immigration reform that comes along should strike the same sort of bargain. Those who don't want to accept the terms and take the deal can go about their business, and bet their chances with immigration authorities. But those who do will have demonstrated that they're willing to make an investment in a country that has already given them a lot and stands to give them much more. In return, the rest of us get a higher-earning, greater-producing legal resident who can contribute to society for many years to come.

                            Speaking of a contribution, there are those who don't seem to be making much of one in this debate. Far and away, one of the shrillest and most alarming arguments against this bill is coming from conservative Republicans who insist that enacting this sort of reform would somehow reduce educational opportunities for native-born U.S. citizens by forcing them to compete with illegal immigrants for admission to colleges, scholarships and the like. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Huntington Beach, glibly labeled the DREAM Act "a nightmare" that would drain scarce resources.

                            It's official. The protectionists have no shame. We now have members of Congress who - after years of arguing that Americans are threatened by trade deals, high-tech workers and low-wage laborers - are trying to protect native-born high school students from the embarrassment of competing with illegal immigrant students and losing out.

                            It just hit me. What Americans really need is a domestic DREAM Act for our own kids - something to remind the little darlings that, if you want something out of life, you have to put something back in. If they learn that, they won't need protecting.


                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              For those posters that are anti-immigrant, Now don't do like Lou D. and say this is an absurd statement-"I love immigrants, it's illegal alians I hate." I thought a article I read tells the real story.

                              I copy----



                              Migration of Mexicans Can't Be Stopped, Says Felipe Calderon
                              Mexican President Talks Exclusively to Diane Sawyer About Immigration Issues


                              The question of how to deal with the hundreds of thousands of illegal Mexicans entering the United States each year has become a divisive issue across the country.



                              President Bush signed a bill last year that authorized the construction of a 700-mile fence along the U.S.-Mexico border, which would cost billions of dollars.


                              Mexican President Felipe Calderon has called the idea of building the fence "deplorable," and said today on "Good Morning America" that he wanted to strengthen the Mexican economy to keep Mexicans there.



                              "Let me tell you, I think that the only way to stop migration is to provide to the people opportunities here in Mexico," Calderon said in an exclusive interview with Diane Sawyer.



                              The Pew Research Center estimated that about 6.2 million undocumented Mexicans lived in the United States in 2005.


                              A majority of the Mexicans who cross the border are young and male. And while many of the immigrants come to the states seeking jobs and security, a large number of them already were employed in their native country.



                              Their goal is to make money in America and to send it back home and into the Mexican economy. The transaction is a huge boost to Mexico's economy, providing $20 billion a year in additional funds.


                              Calderon said having the youngest, strongest and bravest leaving the home country and their families take a huge toll on Mexico.



                              Calderon told Sawyer that some of his own relatives live and work in the United States"” "some of them in the vegetable fields, others in restaurants and others in construction," he said.


                              Immigration to America is a "natural phenomenon," Calderon said, because Mexico has a large, young labor force that is needed by U.S. businesses, a sentiment that some politicians and business leaders across the country agree with.
                              Help Wanted
                              New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg has said his city would "collapse if they were deported," referring to Mexican immigrants.


                              The agriculture and the food service industries across the country are especially reliant on Mexican workers. A recent report out of Washington said that apple growers don't have the workers to harvest the fruit.


                              "If you took away Hispanic labor from agriculture and from dairying in Wisconsin, we'd be in crisis," said Wisconsin Secretary of Agriculture Rod Nilestuen. "There's no two ways about that."


                              Calderon said that Mexico needs to attract more American capital into the country to create more jobs and provide comprehensive regulations about immigration.



                              Finding a common ground in the United States on those regulations has proved difficult. Congress failed to pass an immigration reform bill in June that would have allowed a guest worker program.


                              Now the White House is reportedly rewriting regulations that restrict foreign workers in order to save farmers' harvests across the country.



                              But not everyone agrees that the influx of immigrants is a positive thing. While the majority of immigrants pay taxes totalling billions of dollars, it still costs American taxpayers to subsidize the health-care and education costs of illegals.



                              The issue has become so polarizing that angry protests across the country have occasionally erupted in violence.



                              Calderon said that he knows there is an anti-immigrant sentiment in the United States, and he said that is fueling anti-American feelings in Mexico.



                              The Mexican president says he can envision a prosperous North America "” the United States, Canada and Mexico working together to become an economic powerhouse.



                              "I can see that the world is open, new ways, new bridge, and we are building fences, instead of bridges," Calderon said. "So we need to, to recover the rational discussion about this matter, about this issue, because otherwise at the end of the road both countries and both societies will make a lot of mistakes."



                              Copyright © 2007 ABCNews


                              http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3701738&page=1

                              ==============================================================================

                              Bloomberg.com

                              Calderon Says Mexican Immigration to U.S. Can't Be Stopped

                              By Brendan Walsh



                              Oct. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Mexican President Felipe Calderon said the illegal immigration of Mexicans to the U.S. can't be stopped because of the strong demand for inexpensive labor there.



                              ``It's impossible to stop that by decree. It's impossible to try to stop that with a fence,'' Calderon said today in a taped interview with ABC News' ``Good Morning America.''



                              A lack of job prospects prompts more than 400,000 Mexicans to enter the U.S. each year seeking work both legally and illegally, according to the Pew Hispanic Center in Washington.



                              The U.S. Senate this month voted to spend $3 billion for more fences, patrol agents and surveillance along the U.S.- Mexico border. Calderon said he's seeking to improve economic conditions in Mexico so that citizens don't have to leave the country for work.



                              ``In the future, I can't imagine a Mexico without enough economic growth to provide for them,'' Calderon said during the ABC interview. ``I want to build the conditions in Mexico to provide the opportunities here.''



                              To contact the reporters on this story: Brendan Walsh in New York at Bwalsh8@bloomberg.net



                              Last Updated: October 8, 2007 08:35 EDT



                              http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...ZcKsU&refer=us

                              ======================

                              Reuters

                              Mexican leader critiques U.S. border fence
                              Mon Oct 8, 12:35 PM ET


                              WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Mexican President Felipe Calderon criticized the planned U.S. border fence designed to stem illegal immigration, saying countries should be "building bridges, not fences" in an interview broadcast on Monday.


                              On ABC television's "Good Morning America," Calderon lauded President George W. Bush's failed attempt to get the U.S. Congress to approve comprehensive immigration reform, and said the way to stop illegal immigration is to build economic growth and opportunities in Mexico, not fences.
                              "The world is open in new ways," he said. "We are building fences instead of bridges."



                              The U.S. Congress last year authorized construction of 700 miles of fences along portions of the border, although it has not yet given final approval to all construction costs.



                              Asked about estimates that Mexicans in the United States illegally send home $20 billion to their families, Calderon said the exodus is not a boon to the Mexican economy because the country is losing ambitious young people.



                              He mentioned complaints by U.S. farmers that the crackdown on migrants meant they did not have enough workers to harvest their crops, and said "capital and labor are like right shoe and left shoe."
                              He predicted the flow of Mexicans illegally crossing into the United States would decrease, possibly within a decade, as Mexico's economy grew. "I want to build the conditions in Mexico to provide the opportunities here in our land."



                              He said he hoped the United States and Mexico could see each other as allies as they confront challenges from Asian economies.



                              "I hope that one day the people in America could see the Mexican people as friends, like allies."

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