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Immigration and Individual Rights

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  • #16
    That could be quite an option, eliminating the bars for people already here so they could go "home" and reapply for the proper visa... Not a bad start and far less controversial that true reform... At least something is better than nothing.


    • #17
      So ... they finally invoked Godwin's Law. It was only a matter of time. /sigh

      One of the things I found completely wrong with the plan to give them free reign to go home and apply was the simple fact that it didn't do anything to address the reasons they didn't do it legally in the first place. This includes the lengthy waits, the extreme cost, and perhaps the fact that they probably wouldn't be eligible in the first place. Why would they turn themselves over to be returned home just to go through years of waiting and uncertainty, while forking out large amounts of money with no guarantee of a visa at the end of it?

      MTG, your plan for overstayers is a little bit extreme. Why let the EWI off so light and punish the overstayers so harshly? That said though, the overstayers do need some form of punishment. They shouldn't get such an easy ride to residency when the people doing it properly in other countries are rocking around on a poorly built roller coaster.

      In some ways, I can understand the tearing apart of families. The immigration process is stressful, and marriages/relationships are put to the test in extreme ways. In the case of illegals though, they know that they're illegal and that there's a chance they could be caught and deported. Their families and loved ones are aware of that fact as well. Perhaps they never expect it to happen to them and delude themselves that it won't, but they and their families should be prepared for the possibility.
      The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch


      • #18
        My opinion from What ive seen, Heard, experienced. I Don't Think It Has Anything To do with race, religion, Beliefs Of any immigrant coming to America. its not the few that come and dont understand the rules. its the majority that come knowing the rules and ignoring those rules because they know they will be forgiven. "TAKING ADVANTAGE"
        of Americans and the system.
        I have heard so many illegal immigrants Laughing at our system and having no respect for it themselves. right after obtaining their status.then they tell their friends how to get through. and they tell their friends/family etc. etc. etc. I Blame the system! not the Immigrants. the system is just telling them its ok to take advantage of American rules, ethics, laws. the information has been passed to so many for so long.


        • #19
          That's the point exactly. That shows how shaky the antis' premise that's anchored on the 'Rule of Law' sound byte. As I said before, the law fails to rule. It's outdated and it's porous. How can you enforce a dysfunctional system? No way! Oh, there's a way. You reinforce the dysfunction further and deeper, as plain and simple as that. The antis just try their best to put various spins into it, by demonizing immigration violators due to their irresponsible nature is the most commonly used one, but, hey, doing that takes us nowhere! It's as simple as the principle of 'cause and effect.' We have a choice - correct the cause or curse its effects? There, my friends, is where our true patriotism lies!


          • #20
            it's not the law that is weak, it is the politicians..who pass laws, but then pass loopholes to boot...I say eliminate all waivers (cost to the taxpayers=$0), eliminate all changes of status (except K1/K3)..cost to taxpayers=$0, admit people for 90 days only, unless they can convince the border officials otherwise..cost to taxpayers=$0, put into place a different penalty for overstays...1 day over = 1 year barred,2 days over = 2 years barred, etc, no exceptions, no waivers....cost to taxpayers=$0...for those who are facing deportation and run out at the eleventh hour to marry some trailertrash, no witholding of deportation, the illegal is barred for ten years, period...cost to taxpayer=$ illegally, barred for ten years, cost to taxpayer=$0...see how simple and cheap this can be?
            Lie to our border officials...5 year bar to readmission, cost to taxpayers=$0...get the point? Zero tolerance for violating our laws...period.


            • #21
              Oh, I'm with you 100% on that Rough Neighbour. I've said for a long time that the first step to fixing immigration isn't amnesty or any of the other band-aid fixes they're touting. Unless they fix the system at the root, people will still try and find ways to circumvent it.
              The whole of life is but a moment of time. It is our duty, therefore to use it, not to misuse it - Plutarch


              • #22
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Someone12:
                it's not the law that is weak, it is the politicians..who pass laws, but then pass loopholes to boot...


                That's my boy. You're on the right track now. You're starting to learn, and you're learning fast. That's a very good sign. Keep it up.


                • #23
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Picture of Michaelthegreat

                  Posted 03-22-2008 05:03 PM Hide Post
                  I would require the following the solution:

                  EWI's; Go back and reapply;no bar; the sneakiness of coming in is a higher crime than overstay

                  Overstays; Eligible if 1) No crimes, felonies, misdemeanors, marriage frauds 2) College educated 3) Employed/Employable 4) Paid taxes annually since here 5) $5000 fine; all others go back

                  This is best and fairest solution that will remedy most cases

                  These people stop at Nothing !

                  Death to IMBRA AND VAWA !

                  God Bless America and no one else !!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Disturbingly I agree with the Devil again on this one.

                  Someone else mentioned 'harshness" of overstay VS the EWI... this is not harsh given it can be overcome with the fine. Currently the bar for overstay is 3 or 10 years which is brutal if there is a mixed status family involved.

                  This seems equitable and more of a 'solution" that would really bring folks out of the shadows.

                  As for EWI coming forward who might otherwise be ineligible otherwise so what is the point...? My main concern is family unity.

                  We have an underground economy of LEGAL US CITIZENS as well as illegal economic migrants.

                  We will never get all of them to pay taxes unless we go with a fair tax.
                  "Being all fashioned of the self-same dust let us be merciful as well as just"
                  Henry Wadsworth Longfellow


                  • #24
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Michaelthegreat:
                    As someone else pointed out, you can not apply the misuse of laws by another country at another time in another area that has nothing to do with the laws in question to make any kind of moral assessment. .......... Again to use the phrase "tearing" families apart is a desperate and failed argument because it's assumption that they are being torn apart at all is false. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    I believe there is Natural Law.. like gravity and you can ignore its consequences at your own peril but you cannot escape the reality of them.

                    People have been migrating for economic reasons since man appeared on earth. You can attempt to "legislate against migration" which is a force of nature or you can manage it intelligently.

                    We claim on one hand we are in favor of "free markets" (except with the case of immmigrant labor")

                    We claim Liberty is a value worth dying for and we export it at the cost of our own citizens. yet those who seek it here are not welcomed..

                    Our constitution and bill of rights was designed to protect our citizens from abuse of power, yet armed ICE agents enter citizens homes to harrass citizens in the name of "rule of law" separating families who have chosen to be together out of their own FREE WILL.

                    USE OF FORCE by the government to separate a man from his wife or vice versa and detain one pending deportation and then making a law that person cannot rejoin the spouse in the county is a cruel and unusual punishment also barred by the bill of rights.

                    There is no other instance in our criminal justice system where a civil crime metes out this harsh of a penalty.

                    Your incorrect in assuming that folks can easily leave this country and enter another or a third country. Its an extreme and ridiculous proposition.

                    The results are weird as well. You foster a system that "favors" marriage fraud through brokered and online relationships, rewarding them for appearing "legal" yet punish severely people who meet and fall in love in the "normal" or at least socially common Western way. They meet and find common ground, court and fall in love and get married.
                    "Being all fashioned of the self-same dust let us be merciful as well as just"
                    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow


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