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Kyl's amendments.

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  • #61
    Another moronic post by you jean. Don't even think about linking illegals with the holocaust. There is no comparison. No one is rounding up Mexicans or any other countries citizens, putting them in camps and killing them. When illegals are caught, they are given a place to sleep, three meals a day and a plane trip back to whatever country they came from. Ya, I'm pretty sure Hitler didn't have the same policy you complete moron. EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY has immigration laws. To you anyone that does not agree with your simple minded thinking is a biggot, and you automatically play the race card. Currently immigration laws read that all illegals are to be deported. A person standing up for their countries laws is NOT a biggot you half wit.


    • #62
      There is no way Agribusiness and big business is going to let a big chunk of their workforce be sent away.


      True, fines and workplace enforcement NEED to be ramped up.

      I believe in the will of the AMERICAN people. I sure do, BUT MONEY TALKS!

      I'm not naive. This has to become a compromise between the "Will of the People' and the "Wallet of the People."


      • #63
        Your comments about me are about as accurate as your prognostications on the outcome of this bill--dead wrong. As I recall, I was the one that said popular opinion wouldn't allow amnesty to get through. The fat lady sang, more quickly than even I had hoped for.

        In fact, people like me are the best hope that illegal aliens have getting any sort of legal status in this country. As long as Americans and American workers are getting sold down the river by corporate interests allied with ethnic and political interests, there will be no tolerance for amnesty.

        IF illegal aliens really want a shot at amnesty some day, then they'd better pray this administration or the one that follows it gets it act together and starts enforcing the immigration laws. The felony business is insignificant in comparison with knowing who enters this country (entry/exit system, biometrics), who is staying, and who is working without authorization (secure SS and ID, interagency cooperation). The best hope for any amnesty for at least many of the illegal aliens currently here is for there to be visible signs that this government will enforce its immigration laws. Only then can we talk amnesty for those here. Business may want cheap labor, but as long as it is not willing to pay to get unskilled workers legally, it may find itself with a major public relations problem. Case in point: Wal-Mart, the most powerful retailer in the world. Look at the public relations problems they've got now. People are realizing that Wal-Mart's poorly paid workers without healthcare end up costing taxpayers, who get stuck with their care. I might also point out that many of those discussing this bill said that it is unwieldy and that the bureaucracy cannot handle it. In other words, given the state ICE and CIS are in now, eventual and gradual amnesties, such as 245i are the best route to go.

        Of course, if you're an illegal alien, you're probably only interested in how all this affects YOU. You, who are illegal, have the gall to imagine that it is YOU telling us what we have to do?!


        • #64
          So Aliba, quick Q?

          Do you support the proposals that pass the progam, but put a temporary freeze on it until the Department of Homeland Security certifies that the border has been made "resonably secured?"


          • #65
            I just heard the Senate "might" get back to work on some sort of immigration deal the thrursday after they return from their break. Will this actually happen? I don't know, but it shows that people demand action on the issue.


            • #66
              What I would do is pretty much that, only include operation of the entry/exit program (after all, about half of illegal aliens are overstays), and workplace enforcement against employers (SS, for example, and heavy fines), certified by the GAO. Also, tougher actions to find and penalize fraud, including marriage fraud. (The GAO found that ICE/CIS are woefully lacking in doing either.) That could take years, depending on how motivated the Administration is. But yes, I'd go with pretty much the kind of program they provided, maybe some variation of 245i. If you have a U.S. citizen or employer who's willing to sponsor you, fine. Otherwise, good bye. I also believe in green cards to allow companies to bring over unskilled labor--subject to labor certification and paying a living wage and healthcare. But green cards allow workers to change jobs the instant they set foot in the U.S. whereas guest worker programs don't. That's the main problem with the latter (and why employers want them)--they keep workers, be they skilled or unskilled indentured in the hope of a green card, which in turns keeps wages down.

              The sticking point in whatever they do is getting the money and the systems in place. Even had amnesty passed, that would still be a problem.


              • #67
                I believe reform should include first and foremost action to adjudicate LPR status to immediate relatives of citizens and LPR's alike. The distinction between an LPR (citizen in the making) and a U.S. citizen when it comes to immediate relatives is cruel and unfair. Then and only then, a guest worker program should be considered but IMHO, citizens and LPR's deserve preferential treatment.
                Still, there's no way the GWP deal is going to fade away, things will get worse and the GWP will be passed without much consideration. What a shame, the country deserves better than incomplete legislation.


                • #68
                  And now Sen. Specter said the SJC will take on the bill after the break... and we keep moving in circles!


                  • #69
                    That depends on what you consider an immediate relative, Houston. I could buy it for a spouse or minor child, but not a parent or sibling.


                    • #70
                      Immediate relatives are defined by INA and they only include spouses, minor children (not married) and parents. Parents however cannot obtain some of the relief and benefits available to other immediate relatives. If the Senate was willing to adjudicate benefits to admissible aliens under the GWP (remember the "shall adjust" wording?) then that same wording should be used for immediate relatives. A guest worker or a business cannot take preference over the LIFE of a U.S. citizen.
                      BTW, the "shall adjust" language is currently used for some people from central-america seeking adjustment. Is this fair? I guess NOT!


                      • #71
                        The only reason amnesty 2006 was delayed is because minority leader harry reid felt like it would be better for democrats to murder the entire debate untill next year and use the november election to pick up seats in the house and senate, where the americans people are very upset at the republicans.

                        The consensus is that the democrats will undoubtedly pick up seats, the question is, would they pick up enought seats to take over one congressional house or possibly both...My sources are telling me that it was widely expected that the democrats would make a push to take over the senate after the election is done because a lot of stuff are on their side right now.

                        the president approval ratings are at its all time low, the war in iraq is getting worse, our borders are still open and you have the dubai port issues and fresh reports that suggest the president leaked classified information to hurt individual that was against the war in iraq..and lets not forget about the hive dropping on americans with no permission.

                        So, now, with the american people blaming the republicans for failing to block the border and find a way to handle the 12 million people, there is no doubt that the democrats will take over the senate and pick up huge amount of seats in the house.

                        Now, you need to understand , any gain by the democrats in the house and senate, means that a broader amnesty will get enacted...just remember that the democrats will use this immigration issue against the republican and once they take over those chambers, they will undoubtedly amnesty everybody, including the one that came last doesnt matter, so its whther you get the amnesty for 9 million, or you wait after the election and get an amnesty for 24 to 30 million.

                        i really beleive there will be about 30 million undocumented immigrants by the end of the year because the rumour of amnesty is going across the globe and everybody will try to rush to america in the hope to beat the cut off deadline before amnesty2006-07 is enacted.. so either way, there will be an amnesty.

                        democrats arent for enforcement, democrats are for amnesty every 10 years, just ask clinton about this..the immigrants that democrats are going to amnestied will fall on their voting block and it always went to their voting block and this is the reason why democrats are pushing hard for a broader amnesty...

                        So all you biggots, mister kyl, cornyn, session can pick their poison...either you take the amnesty of 9 million now, or you wait after the election, have the democrats pick up huge amount of seats, and pass a broader amnesty that would legalize 30 million..meaning an additional 20 million will enter because of rumour of amnesty.

                        beleive me this is what will happen.


                        • #72
                          And why did Democrats think it would even matter if the debate was held now or later? Because they know this is a sensitive topic with the American public, and generates a lot of opposition. As I've told you before, Jean, I'm a lifelong Democrat, albeit a moderate one, and I can promise you, Democrats' traditional base including the working man and woman do not want an amnesty or guest worker program as long as their jobs and their futures are insecure. THAT won't happen as long as companies continue to lay them off or hire mainly illegals. You might also note a WP story this morning how most jobs are going to immigrants, legal and illegal. Not a trend to make American workers willing to support amnesty.

                          As for the numbers, well, Jean--as you've pointed out, Americans are concerned with Border Security (probably second only to job security). Any party that doesn't deliver on that will have a hard time getting votes, which means they'd better come up with some plan to do it independent of amnesty. It's too important an issue. Just imagine if there's another terrorist incident, maybe by an illegal alien. Just what do you think about the chances for amnesty then?

                          You can almost bet--after this fall's election, they'll be planning on 2008's, if they aren't already. THEN, it will be a matter of positioning themselves for the Presidential elections that influences the debates.


                          • #73
                            This was the chance for Congress to pass a very compromised legalization program. If the Senate does not pass a bill that includes a GWP right after the break (and does so quickly), a full blown amnesty will be passed without difficulty. The issue is NOT going to go away, it's here to stay and we all know that.
                            Also, the INA needs to evolve into a more realistic and enforceable statute, I could at least name a couple issues that make no sense with the Act we have today. Reform is needed, and it's vital to the security of the U.S.


                            • #74
                              The issue is not going to go away, but neither is the opposition. Any bill that wants a guest worker program or legalization without first proving that the government CAN and WILL handle enforcement of the laws will have a very tough time passing. We had the proof after 1986 that Congress will promise the moon and deliver nothing, which is how we came to this pass.


                              • #75
                                I agree that enforcement is required, but the GWP could have an enactment date that's different from the border protection provisions in the bill. In fact, there was an amendment to the Specter bill that provided just that but it was never considered and we all know why...


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