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  • #46
    Houston- you need to understand that harry reid refuses to let any amendments that he doesnt like, for a vote and republicans are united by stated that unless kyl gets a say on his amendment, then they will not budge and they will not pass any guest worker program.

    Houston- this is a bigger deal then what you are saying...the democrats are also united and not letting kyl "gut" the bill..senator durbin rose on the floor and attacked kyl and some republican by accusing them of trying to muder the bill to make sure that only a few immigrants could apply for the amnesty..kyl's amendment would kill the chance of at least 3 million visa overstayers, basicly, kyl is attempting to muder the entire irish community from applying for any kind of guest worker program and other nationals that came here throught visa waiver and other types of visa and this did not include the 2 millions that have less then 2 years in the U.S which will have to leave with no guaranteed that they will eneter again...so kyl has murdered 5 millions immigrants and im hearing he has more amendments..he has, in fact 5 amendments and my sources are telling me that every single one of those amendments want to cut and gut immigrants from applying.

    this guy, kyl is a dirty human being a dirty politician a dirty lawmaker that uses dirty tactics...the sad part about this is, even mccain and other moderate republicans has taken kyl's side and have told democrats to let kyl have his say on the bill...the problem with this is if reid allows kyl to get a vote, then alkl republicans will vote for his amendments and all 5 of his amendments are design to, slowly kill the comprehensive bill.

    Aslo, my sources are telling me that kyl even have an amendment that would pull out the haguel/martinez guest worker provision that divide immigrants into 3 groups, and subtitute it for his guest worker provision with no path to citizenship and it would have everyone leave the country so that they could re enter legally...this guy is a dirty p u n k...

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    • #47
      The cut off date provisions in the bill are going to lead to rampant fraud. I thought there was going to be a bill wherein all illegals would be treated the same. The reasoning behind the roots concept does'nt make any sense. Such legislation seems to be for only mexicans who jump over fences rather than for people who are visa overstayers. I think all should have been treated equally. New legislation is going to result in rampant fraud "a law for law breakers to break more laws inorder to become legal". Does'nt make sense. This not fair and equitable bill and all the republicans have done is to make the latino voters happy but they have not solved the problem but found a temporary cure for it. After reading the text of the bill will we know what thr new las are but it still has to clear a big hurdle which is the house and if it was so difficult getting it through the senate then I wonder what it will in house.

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      • #48
        im against a mexican-only guest worker program, and it seems like he g.o.p are only interested in this kind of approach...you can not tell a guy that came here under visa waiver that his illegal status is worse then a guy from mexico who crossed the border...again, crossing the border is 10 fold worse then coming by plane and getting inspected whyle, when crossing the border unseen, you can bring in any kind of weapons with no inspectation for border patrols.

        There have been a small irish rally and the irish prime minister attented a hearing with president bush, about a month ago, and told him that irish immigrants should get amnestied along with the mexican, but it seem like kyl wants to eliminate all of them because they overstayed a visa.

        tommorow is a huge day for the senate because senators wants o go home for the spring break, and it is beleived that if the senate goes into spring spring without passing no bill, then immigration will die and they will wait untill next year..but the good news is that a bigger amnesty will be in line once democrats picks up seat in the senate+ house...it is also facts hat republicans will lose seats and the senate will be under democratic leadership after the november's election..the democrats will pass a broader amnesty for all 12 million and everyone will be able to stay no matter how long you been here and everyone will get a clean path to citizenship.

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        • #49
          the bill is divided into 3 parts because they are a lot of people that are in the US because they heard rumours of amnesty, so what they tried to do in the haguel/martinez bill is, to let the ones that have been here for longer, the chance to gain more then someone that came here last night.

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          • #50
            It's going to be tough to get anything through the Senate. First Reid won't let the Republicans vote on amendments. Now Reid is demanding that the Judiciary Committee members be selected as Conferee's to the Senate/ House conference committee and to cherry pick the amendments to vote on or he'll continue his delay tactics and kill the bill. I can appreciate his political strategy. He wants a guarantee that the bill won't get gutted in the Conference Committe with the House, but he's taking a big gamble trying to dictate the process. Even Sen. Graham and Sen. McCain have stated they will vote against cloture for the compromise bill. If this happens then the compromise bill is dead. In retaliation, Frist is going to bring his enforcement only bill up for a vote on Friday. If the Republicans can get 5 democrats to vote for cloture on the Frist bill then they can pass it on an up/down vote. I know that there are a few Democrats who favor enforcement only. Things aren't looking too good for pro amnesty supporters.

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            • #51
              I hate to say it, but it sounds like amnesty 2006 is dead..bad news,very bad news.

              enought is right, reid is taking a huge gamble on this because republican will try to turn this on democrats trying to stop the border from being fix...but i will say that reid plan might be to kill any comprehensive bill because republicans and president bush will get most of the credit because they controll both houses, so they have the most to gain with extremist that want a close border and hispanics that wants some kind of legal status...

              what reid might try to do is kill the entire immigration issue, then blame the republicans for refusing to pass a good immigration bill, and this will guaranty the g.o.p to lose the hispanic votes, but im guessing that republicans will move fast to at least shut down the border by passing an enforcement-only bill, and at least keep their conservative base happy...but they will lose the huge hispanic vote, religious and business vote.

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              • #52
                Even if the House and Senate fall to Democrats, there still will be a problem passing a comprehensive bill until the border and our internal controls are in order. You can already see the ramped up efforts by the Administration. They have already allocated funds for more BP agents, detention beds, technology, U.S. Visit system, and there are plans to bring the employment verification system online nationwide. It would take 18 months for it to get it running. ICE is also ramping up interior enfocement and fraud protection. You've probably also seen the stories of how the Administration is pressuring other countries to take their illegals back. People want to see results on the border, a crackdown on overstayers, and deportations. I know some people don't want to hear it, but it's true. We're not going to see massive deportations, but there will be an increase. Also, when the employement verification system is up and the REAL ID goes into effect it will be difficult for illegals to work. Many will probably go home on their own. All this is possible with the laws already on the books.

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                • #53
                  I really feel that Sen Kyl can debate his ammendment until he is blue in the face. McCain and REPUBLICANS who support the Hagel/Martinez proposal say they have the votes to defeat him and any other ammendments that water it down.

                  Let Kyl have his say. He won't win. To much is riding on this for Sen Reed to be so stubborn.

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                  • #54
                    Now, just why are you all so upset about Congressmen "lying". They lied to us about the 1986 amnesty, promising it was going to be one off, and that the laws would be enforced. This entire bill puts the lie to that.

                    IF you get any amnesty at all, be thankful. The bigger lies are the ones that have been and are being told to the American people, not to illegal aliens.

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                    • #55
                      I don't think Kyl or Sessions are lying. They are doing what Senators are supposed to do; presenting rhetorical speech in an attempt to pursuade and defend.

                      Do I agree with Sessions and Kyl, no... But I sure do get a kick listening to them debate and spin! IMHO, Sen Sessions, Sen Kyl and Sen. Durbin are first class entertainment! :lol:

                      McCain says he has the REPUBLICAN votes to defeat any Kyl, Isackson or other ammendment that would water down the proposal.

                      Deabate and vote on Kyl/Cornyn and Isackson's ammendments. Let them have their debate time. Them watch the vote go against them.

                      Harry Reid's heart may be in the right place, but it's time to MOVE on this. Stop being so stubborn!!!

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                      • #56
                        These bills are creating disparities in the illegal population. Maybe some of this is required but I wonder how dangerous this is going to be. I have knowledge of at least two individuals who have reached the pinnacle in immigration, they're able to adjust as immediate relatives, also qualify for the guest worker program (in either version), have businesses and degrees. These people will be able to adjust with a big smile on their faces. But what about that famous two-year group? Are they really going to leave, why? How is this bill going to change their minds?
                        This disparity may cause problems, believe it or not, it could create an underground class of individuals within the illegal alien population itself.
                        Why do people believe that a complicated solution is going to work better than one simple, uniform approach?

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                        • #57
                          I also feel like sen.harry reid should've let, at least, the kyl amendment be voted on because ive heard mccain and other moderate republicans say that they would have easily defeated his amendments and many other anti-guest worker amendments.

                          I hate to say that, but i dont think the democrats wanted to pass any immigration bill this year, because they know if the sensenbrenner ani-immigration bill stands alone as the G.O.P bill, then there is no doubt that it will hurt them the most, specially with the hispanic votes which is important.

                          Also, lets not forget that the borders are still open, so the republicans will take the hit from both side of the specter, amongs hispanics and among people that wanted the border to be completly blocked.

                          There is no doubt that harry reid pictured a scenario where the borders are still open and hispanic demonstrating against h.r4437 by the million in the streets, will do nothing more then to hurt republicans, so he felt that helping kyl and the other extremist to kill the bill, would be better for them then passing a bill that could get gutted out.

                          I hope this strategy works for harry reid, because this is a big gamble, and i just cant believe that harry reid would rather kill the entire immigration debate, then let kyl's amendment get voted down and move on.

                          what im saying is that, it seem like harry reid knows that kyl's amendments could have been easily voted down, but he decided that killing the bill will be more beneficial for democrats then having a good comprehensive immigration bill where republicans would also get the credit because they controll bothe houses.

                          if the consensus is that those anti- amendments was easily defeatable, then shame on harry reid for playing political gain on this subject..this subject is too important for democrats to play those kind of games.

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                          • #58
                            I hate to say that, but i dont think the democrats wanted to pass any immigration bill this year, because they know if the sensenbrenner ani-immigration bill stands alone as the G.O.P bill, then there is no doubt that it will hurt them the most, specially with the hispanic votes which is important.
                            That's closer to the truth than many folks would like to believe. Just another example on how politicians operates. They rather push their own agenda that what's good for this country.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Hispanic votes are not THAT important yet. They may be swing voters, depending on the election, but any group can be that on any issue (such as *** marriage). Republicans have their best chance with assimilated Hispanics, such as my niece and her Anglo husband. He's doing well, and THEIR interest in immigration, if any, is on getting cheap labor, not ethnicity. The illegal aliens Dubya wants to legalize would need tremendous helpings of social services and expanded government, which is counter to the traditional Republican agenda--and what our country can afford, thanks to "his" war.

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                              • #60
                                ALIBA-i know where you stand on this immigration issue, you are a biggot that want to cut off any type of immigration inside the U.S, legal and illegal.

                                Now i violently disagree your ideology, but as an americans, i know you have the right to state your view and i guess you have the right to demand someone that has no legal status in the country, to leave your country because you was born here, and the person is not legal in your country..

                                now i know where you stand on this immigration issue, but you need to understand that you will never get enforcement-only because this country can not, should not let mass deportation happen..this will brin the pictures of jews being rounded up and put into train en route to alshoute germany in concentration camp, to be killed...this image will never be part of america where we rounds 11 millions people and just ship them out.

                                so, you need to understand that enforcement-only will not happen, and the goverment will never, nevr, never,never follow the rules that are NOW in the book because it would hurt huge companies that depends on those guys that you love to hate...so remember the border are still open and more mexican and other nationals will now try to get to america as soon as possible now that the immigration debate is delay and it will be a rush to america and the 12 millions will now become 24 million next year.

                                so now we will have 24 30 million that will get amnestied instead of maybe 9 million, so you will have more people to hate on.

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