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  • #46
    Originally posted by davdah:
    Hudson I read what you had to say about psychotic behavior etc. I believe it goes too far. Even if a women turns to jelly when abused it still does not justify making it a one way street. Many women from other countries are tougher so to speak than our home grown versions. They have been dealt more of lifes struggles than women here. Not to say they can take it but I would assume they keep their sanity intact more so than one of our own on average. With that most women here have no problem calling 911 when things get out of hand. An immigrant women would probably be less likely to cower under that kind of pressure. Give women a little more strength credit than that. They are not the weak bowls of mush you described. When was the last time you won an argument with your wife? (lol).

    A couple statistics that jump out are the number of abuse claims are far less with immigrant women and the divorce rate is lower. I haven't seen it but I would bet a womens rights group would explain it as them just tolerating it or not knowing where to turn. It doesn't take any person very long to adjust to our way of life here. For a women to learn how to defend herself via 911 or other avenues would take no time at all. Unless she lived under a rock. There are always other people, neighbors, and relatives who would at least tell them which buttons on the phone to press.
    If not then porky will. Just kidding.
    Davdah,
    Psychotic episodes do happen, generally with a murder-suicide situation where either the husband or wife commits the atrocity. Generally, domestic abuse is at the top of the list explaining the incident. And either the person being abused or the abuser commits the atrocity. But it does happen. And the same goes with cop assisted suicide as an example of a psychotic episode. The difference between a psychotic episode and one who is suicidal is that a suicidal person will generally not harm other people whereas a psychotic individual will harm others intentionally. We saw this with the VA Tech incident of someone who was autistic, bullied, and did not adjust life here in the US despite his parents best efforts.

    Immigrant women are the most vulnerable, not because they are frail, but because of the situation they are in. They are new here to the country, thus, do not have the knowledge of the laws, limited English skills, fear of the police transplanted from their own culture, fear of talking to anyone because of their limited English skills, threat of deportation, totally dependent on their spouse, among other things.

    But it is not a one way street, Davdah. Just because one makes a claim does not mean the claim will be granted. For instance, you can file a tax return with a claim for a refund. The government does not automatically give it to you. Their system do a analysis and if it meets that criteria, the refund is released. However, if a questionable item is found, the refund is placed on hold and you will be sent an examination letter. The same goes with VAWA. The questino is "how to make the process as least traumatic for someone who might have been abused?" Prior to the 2000 rules, there process was very traumatic and simply went underground, illegal. As I said, my challenge to you is to spend time in a domestic abuse shelter as a volunteer. OD you have the guts?
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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    • #47
      Hudson, do you work for or with the VAWA staff of the VSC?`Ever?

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      • #48
        I just wanted to put my 2 cents in.....

        Most of you know by now I am from England, I love my country. And if USCIS approves my filing, will eventually become a US Citizen, but I will not give up my British Citizenship, so I will have Dual Nationality, which is fine as US and UK Government get on pretty well at the moment.

        I only left England, becuase of the love and trust I have in my husband, infact, while we was looking over the I-864 we was having a joke about that he would be responsible fro me for the next 10 years, I told him, if anything happens within our marriage, (I can not foresee anything happening) I would go home, why would one want to stay even I was here 5 - 10 years, I would still go home to England, where I have family. Anyway thats all I wanted to say.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by max-one:
          Hudson, do you work for or with the VAWA staff of the VSC?`Ever?
          No, used to work for a federal agency, one of the most powerful regulatory agency in the Federal system. I have seen more than my share of fraud that you cannot possibly imagine.

          But I have volunteered my time with individuals who are in domestic abuse shelters, generally helping them with tax problems. Additionally, my wife and I know several people who have been abused, including one friend for over 20 years had been abused, not to mention the numerous tax problems the friend had to cope with.

          However, what you are spitting out comes from a group called Mediaradar, which wants VAWA petitions back to prior 1994. It is not exactly the nonpartisan sight one sees.
          "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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          • #50
            Originally posted by davdah:
            I can understand the apprehension of being in a foreign country and the dependency factor. But isn't it the goal of the immigrant to be here in the first place? I'm not saying they are all lusting for a GC only. But the hurdle of moving far away to start a new life requires something beyond the norm. Most of the women that make the trip are of a slightly different caliber than the average of their home country. They would need to have more inherent courage and an adventurous spirit.

            I'm not playing down the fact there are real abused women & men who need protection from their spouses. Courage or not it would not stop them from having the krap beat out of them. My only point with that is they would be less likely to not look for help than someone who was of more frail character.

            In so far as the result of the claims go there seems to be a wide range of experiences given. Some say its a slam dunk and according to your friend its a tough road to hoe. Which is it?

            Being that prevention is what it is perhaps it would be better to implement something up front to stop it before it happens. Have the sponsor and would be immigrant go through a psychiatric examination prior to any visa being granted. The obvious signs to look for would be a propensity to violence or unsavory virtues.

            As it is now the sponsor's position is left to the honesty of the claimant. Until a person has been in that corner and been taken advantage of it may be difficult to understand they need some level of protection too. Since these are usually a byproduct of divorce it becomes obvious what will probably happen. Hence the reason for the outcry of foul.
            Davdah,
            We are not talking about USC who have lived abroad for 3, 5, or 10 years and are now bringing their foreign wife into the US or USC marrying foreigners who are now on a F, J, G, H, or other visa and the foreign wife is currently living in the US. We are talking about USC who go on the internet to find a wife. And given that process, it is very difficult to determine whether that person can be good to the future spouse or not. Thus, part of the problem is the immigration process. I would recommend marriage counselor as part of the visa requirement and extend the time frame from 90 days to 180 days for marriage if the person came on a K1. And the other "prevention" was the passage of IMBRA, which was for marriage brokers to make sure no pedophile or convicted domestic abuser can go after the most vulernable.

            I agree that the VAWA claim and divorce go hand in hand; however I disagree with the added protection. First and foremost, the USC spouse already has an advantage in divorce because the USC can generally afford an attorney while the immigrant spouse generally have to rely on legal aid or a lawyer doing pro bono. There may be circumstances with either friends or relatives paying for the lawyer, but that also can go with USC spouses too. But the immigration VAWA petition is just that, a petition, But to allow outside influences to determine the validity of the petition, which the outside source has an ulterior motive, is also unfair. How would you feed if certain family members do not want you to marry your fiancee and they send "evidence" showing she should be rejected. You would feel upset too, probably that the system is unfair to allow you happiness? The opening up of outside sources, that generally cannot be independently verified, is a hardship to the petitioner and USCIS, who have to sort out the evidence in the first place.
            "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by davdah:
              We have one to ask. Are you a bowl of jelly incapable of making a rational decision if things got crazy at home? I doubt it. A lot of men have the opinion that women are so physically/mentally weak they need constant protection and guidance. You do have the brains and intelligence to carry on in life, don't you?

              You made a perfect point. I would imagine most people if they had a bad marriage in a foreign land would want to go back home. That is if their intentions for being here were to only be with their significant other.

              How long did it take for you to acclimate yourself to our way of life here? I realize it isn't too different than England. There are some challenges like learning how to drive. However, no country is so far backwards that adjustment isn't possible.
              No I am not like a bowl of Jelly, infact my husband and myself make joint decisions on whatever comes up, so we both "wear the trousers" in our household.

              The driving was a bit of an issue, after driving for nearly 20 years on the opposite side of the road, I use to drive around our little village for the first few days, then got my neighbour to come out with me everytime I drove into town, just for a week or two, although I will not drive in the big cities, and I do infact say to my husband if American drivers went thru the English driving test, at least 50% of them would fail, especially when asked what are the breaking distances between each vehicle. LOL, but even after being here for a few years now, I sometimes return to my car from the shop and go to the passenger side.

              The weather here in Oklahoma is alot hotter!!!
              The people here are much friendlier,

              But you know what Dorothy said in the wizard of Oz, "there's no place like home"

              In another thread we were talking of healthcare, in England taxpayers pay for the healthcare, we pay each week/month into NHS depending on what we earn, so it isnt exactly free, but we do get more for our buck. we do have an excellant healthcare system.

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              • #52
                Yes it is a payroll deduction, but if you are self employed you also have to pay into it. (its very much like your state taxes) but our payment goes to NHS, (National Health Service), also this payment gives us a pension at the age of 60/65, but this has changed and if you was born after a certain date you now have to get your own private pension.

                to give you an idea, if I was to keep paying into NHS while I am here, which most people do, of around $500 per year, thats why they have the dual citizenship, because I paid into it for the last 20+ years I am entitled to a state pension, probably equivalent to $150 - $200 per week, I also have a private pension, which I need to find out if I can have it transferred over to here at a later stage. Anyway hope that gives you a clearer picture of the NHS

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                • #53
                  I wasn't going to post on this thread but I feel I had to.
                  No one can assume what it is like for someone who has been abused unless they have been themselves.

                  Its even harder when you are living in another country, as you don't know the laws or what rights you have unless you find that information, and really the only way to find that information is by talking to the right people.
                  The thing is when you are abused and scared, you are too frightened to call those people in case your abuser finds out especially if he is a controller too.

                  Any domestic violence professional can tell you that its harder for immigrants than people from this country.
                  When you don't have your family or friends around, you basically feel alone and scared of what is going to happen to you when you do eventually leave your abuser.
                  For women its harder then men, and its even harder for women with children.

                  There are also many rules for immigrants where you do not have the same rights as a USC.
                  For one as some of you know where I have posted before on this subject, if you have not had your Green Card for 5 yrs, you are not allowed to have any government assistance whatsoever.
                  The immigrant will have to make sure they have lots of their own money to be able to get away and get legal help.
                  If you do not have money or low income, you have a fat chance in finding a lawyer to help you.
                  It will be very hard to find a lawyer to do pro bono work in a divorce case, as most want a retainer of at least $1500 or more.
                  If you can't afford a lawyer, no a USC is not made to pay for one for you.
                  You can try at the end of the divorce to see if you can ask for lawyers fees if the judge awards it.
                  If you have an immigration issue you need to pay for an Immigration lawyer too, mind you some of those will do pro bono.

                  Its not easy to come to a decision whether you should stay here or go back home after you have been in an abusive marriage.
                  To start with you can't just leave the country without going through the normal legal procedures unless of course you don't care what you leave behind or care to ever come back to the US in the future.

                  Personally I am still in two minds about what I am doing in the future, but I am keeping in mind what my son wants too.
                  He has made a home here, doing extremely well in this schooling system and is working hard to getting into a fantastic university here.
                  He said he doesn't want to leave his friends again like he did when we left UK.
                  We gave everything up to move here, so we will have nothing to go back to, except start all over again.
                  UK will always be my home and where my heart is, but I mentally over the years tried to make this State my home and tried hard to fit in and adapt to the American way.
                  Part of me thinks I will be a quitter by leaving the US, or letting my stbx have the satisfaction in running me off.
                  I can't keep running and giving in to him, I have to do what is right and do what is best for me and my son, regardless of what anyone thinks.

                  Believe me its very hard leaving your own country and moving to somewhere thats very alien to you. Well to those that love their country rather then wanting to get away from it.
                  Its a very confusing issue to someone who has been through that and abuse.

                  I know there are many people who claim abuse when they haven't been, but I have met many who are immigrants but even more who are USC's.
                  I guess some people want to use that in hoping that they could get more out of the system or divorce.
                  If I was illegal, I would get more help, not bashing illegals here,its bashing the system here.
                  I am legal and married for right reasons and went through hardships in waiting to get green card. Never thought I would be in a situation where I need help, yet its very hard to get it.

                  I could write a book about my experience, and many would be shocked. For true victims, its a nightmare no one wants to ever relive.

                  Sorry for long post
                  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  God Bless America - God Bless Immigrants - God Bless Poor Misguided Souls Too

                  National Domestic Violence Hotline:
                  1.800.799.SAFE (7233) 1.800.787.

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                  • #54
                    "If you have been falsely accused you are being abused by your own Gov."

                    Amen, lives get shattered and the men suffer post tramatic stress syndrome. Many develop medical conditions from the stress. Some are so severe they die from it. I know one fellow age 39 who died of a stroke another now undergoing chemotherapy. Healthy all their lives. Was it the stress of being pursued by a legal system that assumes they are guilty? Of course they are men so they should take it.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Well Hudson for the second time I've agreed with something you've spoken out strongly for and against.

                      I think everyone here has missed one factor in the equation. I was never harmed or abused all my life. My life as a born USC did not prepare me for such a real horror.

                      He was so NICE, apologetic, would wait on me hand and foot for days, promise never to do it again. I believed because I wanted to believe.

                      After years of being mom, wife, friend, I was doing something for me and had gotten accepted into nursing school.. He begged after me having 3 miscarriages to have a child.

                      I wanted to believe he was the nice man he could be not the man he was. My life experiences did not prepare me for the fact that men do beat women.

                      No one can hate me more than me. I was a strong women before him. Was it fear/love or the combination that made me allow this abuse. I'll go to my grave wondering how I allowed this to happen to me.

                      Maybe for being so trusting, forgiving, Stupid, I deserve what I am going through. But do my children?

                      I have thought many times of suicide over the years and even now.

                      So don't be so sure that American women know how to call 911, even when we have been taugh to do so. Until your living in such a situation don't be so certain of how you will react.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Robin Horton:
                        Well Hudson for the second time I've agreed with something you've spoken out strongly for and against.

                        I think everyone here has missed one factor in the equation. I was never harmed or abused all my life. My life as a born USC did not prepare me for such a real horror.

                        He was so NICE, apologetic, would wait on me hand and foot for days, promise never to do it again. I believed because I wanted to believe.

                        After years of being mom, wife, friend, I was doing something for me and had gotten accepted into nursing school.. He begged after me having 3 miscarriages to have a child.

                        I wanted to believe he was the nice man he could be not the man he was. My life experiences did not prepare me for the fact that men do beat women.

                        No one can hate me more than me. I was a strong women before him. Was it fear/love or the combination that made me allow this abuse. I'll go to my grave wondering how I allowed this to happen to me.

                        Maybe for being so trusting, forgiving, Stupid, I deserve what I am going through. But do my children?

                        I have thought many times of suicide over the years and even now.

                        So don't be so sure that American women know how to call 911, even when we have been taugh to do so. Until your living in such a situation don't be so certain of how you will react.
                        YOU ARE USC!!!! Do not ever think of the S word!!! Your children Need you!! Again, You are not Alone!! More than you can Imagine are in Similar situations suffering because of fraud! Always Darkest Before the Light!
                        USC and Legal, Honest Immigrant Alike Must Fight Against Those That Deceive and Disrupt A Place Of Desirability! All Are Victims of Fraud, Both USC and Honest Immigrant Alike! The bad can and does make it more difficult for the good! Be careful who y

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                        • #57
                          car reverse parking camera with display price in india

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