...talking about National Healthcare...!

[MakeItRight!]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kollerkrot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MakeItRight!:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kollerkrot:
I got to take a shower! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holly Smoke s!!! what a Coincidence!! i need a Shower Also! what are the Possabilities??? same time!!!

LOL!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK MIR! It is now 23:19 lets do it at 23:30. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Baby Let Us do this Soon!!! Mir Is with Holding nuclear!!! Not yet!! not Yet!!! not Yet!!!! Yikes!!! Please god make Her Understand I Am only Human!!! LOL!!

[MakeItRight!]

No brass Pole????

I Been Waiting Long time!!!

[4now]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
Ok, lets look at some of these alternative forms of medicine. Why is it the FDA and other research centers have found that most of these provide at best only a placebo affect?

Have any examples where real scientific studies here were far different than elsewhere on the same drug. Let's limit the results to those where it was a double blind test.

I can think of a few things. Accupuncture was once thought to be able to cure anything. Once it came under exacting scienific study it failed in nearly every touted claim.

Another one is hair loss. There as many so-called medicines world wide that prevent it as there hairs on your head. However, only here are they limited to a narry few that actually perform. Again, a function of unbiased testing.

Another is bigger b00bs. How many creams and so called potions exist out there in foreign countries claiming to enhance those mellons. A lot. But over here they can't be sold. Why, cause they don't work. They are sold to the desparate and willing fools willing to pay for it.

Personally, I don't take anything. I know most drugs only mask the pain. And that pain is to keep you from hurting yourself the more. It's why its there. [/b] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Davdah

I am speaking of and discussing medicine/alternative healing here... not infomercials/ snake oil etc. They do not belong in the same sentence. And BTW, many of these "so called" snake oils were around and used as the accepted cure at one time before they were replaced by something alledgedly new and improved by the leading pharmacuetical. ex

Silver was the accepted antibiotic long before pennicilin took over for infections. Sulpher also was used to treat people until the pharmacy witch docters tried to destroy it's use with scare tactics. The list is too long to even really to begin.

You should not confuse yourself.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
The body will usually heal most things on its own without anything being taken. But, for those other things, like high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, etc. I would much rather take my chances in a hospital here than some witch doctor in the amazon.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_RED">Oh really.....? I would much rather a "witch doctor" figure out what was causing the high blood pressure, etc and treat the cause, rather than be in a hospital and have someone give up a dangerous drug like zocor that will just mask the symptoms and let the numbers read normal while you just hang around and eventually die because the cause of your condition has been left untreated... This my friend is typical american medicine outlook.</span>

[MakeItRight!]

Read Back, technology and MIr Can Help.
accupuncture Can extend, relieve, Many Ailments!

[Brit4064]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The repubs were never the ones carrying the health reform banner. It's a democrat issue </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You just proved my point. The Repubs weren't interested in changing anything. They thought 87% increase in medical insurance over a 10yr period was perfectly acceptable.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The McCain tax credit. It isn't taking money to give to people. I think your'e confused. It was based on the idea of NOT taking people's money. Letting them keep it. Wow, what a novel idea. I get to keep more of my money, can't have that now, can we? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No I think you're the one confused. It was a Tax Credit...

McCain health plan includes $2,500 tax credit

It was to be paid for by taxing the employee healthcare benefit contribution for the first time ever. It would have worked much like EIC.

[Kollerkrot]

The Ultimate Healthcare!

I am the biggest proponent of chiropractic care in conjunction with soft tissue bodywork - and here is why:

When humans develop in the womb, sometime after the first cell divisions, the nervous system develops. The spine and all the nerves - it's not the brain - it's the spine with all the nerves that is firstly develope! These nerves supply "necessary life" to all of our organs throughout our life. If either by mere gravity, due to us walking upright or due to postural or trauma to the spine these nerves are suppressed or pinched, the necessary supply to the organs is diminished by a percentage 1-100%. If nerve function is diminished, survival instinct kicks in and your body reacts protecting what is left to protect - muscle tightens up trying to take over the load tension develops. This can go on for years without you knowing it, because at first there might not be pain but I guarantee you, that in your entirety you are diminished, fatigued and stressed, because life's demands do not let up, you have to work harder to combat the fatigue. It becomes worse: The nerves that are pinched originally, might have been the ones that supply your liver or other major organ causing the function of that to be diminished throwing that of balance. Again your body reacts – survival instinct kicks in. There is not one part of our body that is more important than another and everything is designed to work in harmony to sustain life.

Our body allows for only so much of that to happen before it rings the bell and issues pain symptoms. Pain is a symptom of a sickness it's not a sickness itself. You go to your M.D. - he puts you on a prescription drug because he was promised special privilege by one of the drug companies if he produces a certain quota or you might have heard on TV or saw an add in a magazine of a newly established drug and go to your M.D. to ask him for that drug. It said, after all the side effects subside (which is after your body made yet more adjustments to the off-balance that the drug now causes) the ad said it enhances Quality of Life (QOL)!

If QOL means taking drugs on a regular basis, it means drug addiction.

Wouldn’t it be better to just go to a chiropractor to have him relief the pressure on that nerve and your soft-tissue therapist the tension in the muscle? It’s just gravity, postural issues like driving, sitting, standing for extended periods of time that can cause nerves to be pinched and as a result of that the muscle to tighten.

We have become so accustomed to live with tension, that we think it is normal. It is not!

[Kollerkrot]

I think this is the preventive care that insurance companies ought to cover.

[Brit4064]

I agree with the chiropractic stuff. Last August I had a strange muscular/lower back joint problem sparked off by an accident earlier in the year where I fell on my back. I couldn't bend more than about 2" without extreme pain. Did the pain meds etc. It was so bad I had to end up having a steroid shot to release it. Since then I've been seeing a local chiropractor regularly which has helped a lot. Although I've had a couple of relapses, these days it's pretty much back to normal

Many years ago I also had bad knee problems developed from a childhood muscular knee problem the docs could never figure what it was. Again the chiropractic stuff worked and I haven't had problems with it since. That was in 1987!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">We have become so accustomed to live with tension, that we think it is normal. It is not! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true.

[ProudUSC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
Commuity shower? Count me in! Sorry for the flg pole, couldnt't help it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol, I did more than community shower today - so embarrassed!!!!!

[Brit4064]

Going back to davdah's statement about alleged lower quality of medical standards in the UK and NHS I think this will very quickly prove this is junk talk. Taken from another Immigration board (thanks BE.com and "made of kent")...

"I have worked as a nurse in Oxford,Leicestershire and Kent and all people who needed Harefield got transferred also Stanmore, Glenfield in leicester which does ECMO. Guys and Tommys, trying to think of other places I have done transfers to?
I had my own heart surgery done at Guys, brilliant, I had had the problem since age 21 but it was an intermittent thing so GPs and hospitals never could find it (Supera Ventricular Tachycardia) I got diagnosed at 27, during handover on a night shift, I ended up in the bed opposite my patient! who was also 27 (Karen died 2 weeks later) and I was seen by a cardiolist the next day (1997) obviously I was sent home when my tachycardia went as it is not a life threatening condition, unless you have clots to throw round your system!
it disappeared at 30 when I got a day job! only to reappear at 34 when pregnant spent a week in hospital IN CCU (forgot to say I was offered surgery in 1997, I declined, flecanide was brilliant) the problem with flecanide is that it is untested in pregnacy, so I stopped taking it under doctors care, I can't take the safe alternatives as even unfit and 39 now my resting rate is 58 at 34 it was 54! I was fainting all over the place on atenalol.
what inpressed me and this is the point of the story, I was sent to Guys, the week after my boys birth, during the pregnacy the pharmacist was constantly talking to me and a place in newcastle I think it was? which collates all the drug info for pregnant women, they in the end said fecanide.
I took it, just as I had for all the years I had been taking it, as in rubbish at taking meds but realised that if I got an attack within 30 seconds of taking it I was back to normal, only failed twice in all those years.
but here is the thing I refused surgery right after my boys where born as they obviously needed a lot of care, and I did suffer SVT a lot, due to my tiredness but Guys had said if you want the surgery just phone.
so just before christmas 2005 i did, pre clarking took less than an hour! saw nurse, consultant (30 mins) ECG, weights ect brilliant very slick, I am an RN so know they didn't cut corners. got my surgery on the 8th Jan they at their surgestion did me in the afternoon as that would mean I would be definatly in overnight, as a mum of twins they thought this was important they knew I would go into mum mode once home. second on talking to the consultant a year before I knew I would be on Stephen Wd which is where unfortunately my dad had his 1000 to one risk of stroke during angiogram, and strangle the nurse who phoned me to tell me, I knew! as she was the set above me at nursing school she said she had worked there 5 years and it had not happened in her time, just a freak!.
anyhow (SIC) they make sure when allocating my bed that it was no where near my dads bed when he was their, and the girl I knew had left years before, so it wasn't her
then here isthe other thing, a year after the boys where born I got a phone call from the pharmastist I had in CCU wanting to know for the place in Newcastle what doses of flecamide I had taken, how often, if they had any problems with the boys happy to report none.
I had moved house! and telephone number!
I suspect as I was going to the hospital for checkup he just looked it up on the computer.
I am willing to bet that the USA has a central database, but due to the amount of companies ect, it is fairly unmanagable"

[Brit4064]

Interesting statistics on bankruptcy filings and medical bills. Makes for scary reading unfortunately:

"Using a conservative definition, 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these
medical debtors had medical debts over $5000, or 10% of pretax family income. The rest met criteria for medical bankruptcy because they had lost significant income due to illness or mortgaged a home to pay medical bills. Most medical debtors were well educated, owned homes, and had middle-class occupations. Three quarters had health insurance. Using identical definitions in 2001 and 2007, the share of bankruptcies attributable to medical problems rose by 49.6%. In logistic regression analysis controlling for demographic factors, the odds that a bankruptcy had a medical cause was 2.38-fold higher in 2007 than in 2001"

Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007: Results of a National Study

[federale86]

$1.9 Trillion Deficit. That is how you pay for Obamacare.

[MakeItRight!]

Community Shower?????
Was There a notice? meeting??? post It????
Not fair!!! Predjudice involved somewhere? i just know it!!!!!!!!

[ProudUSC]

A witness's account of the President's town hall meeting in Bozeman, Montana. This was sent to me via email, so I don't have a link, but this was an eye-opener for me.

Edit: Found a link to a similar account of the event here:

http://atr.org/happened-outsid...-hall-meeting-a3757#


Hello All,

By now you have probably heard that President Obama came to Montana last Friday. However, there are many things that the major news has not covered. I feel that since Bill and I live here and we were at the airport on Friday I should share some facts with you. Whatever you decide to do with the information is up to you. If you chose to share this email with others I do ask that you DELETE my email address before you forward this on.

On Wednesday, August 5th it was announced locally that the President would be coming here. There are many groups here that are against his healthcare and huge spending so those groups began talking and deciding on what they were going to do. The White House would not release ANY details other than the date..

On about Tuesday Bill found out that they would be holding the "Town Hall" at the airport. (This is only because Bill knows EVERYONE at the airport) Our airport is actually located outside of Belgrade (tiny town) in a very remote location. Nothing is around there. They chose to use a hangar that is the most remotely located hangar. You could not pick a more remote location, and you can not get to it easily. It is totally secluded from the public.
FYI: We have many areas in Belgrade and Bozeman which could have held a large amount of folks with sufficient parking. (gymnasiums/auditoriums). All of which have chairs and tables, and would not have to be SHIPPED IN!! $$$$$
During the week, cargo by the TONS was being shipped in constantly. Airport employees could not believe how it just kept coming. Though it was our President coming several expressed how excessive it was, especially during a recession. $$$$$

Late Tuesday/early Wednesday the 12th, they said that tickets would be handed out on Thursday 9am at two locations and the president would be arriving around 12:30 Friday.

Thursday morning about 600 tickets were passed out. However, 1500 were printed at a Local printing shop per White House request. Hmmmm......900 tickets just DISAPPEARED.
This same morning someone called into the radio from the local UPS branch and said that THOUSANDS of Dollars of Lobster were shipped in for Obama. Montana has some of the best beef in the nation!!! And it would have been really wonderful to help out the local economy. Anyone heard of the Recession?? Just think...with all of the traveling the White House is doing. $$$$$ One can only imagine what else we are paying for.

On Friday Bill and I got out to the airport about 10:45am. The groups that wanted to protest Obama's spending and healthcare had gotten a permit to protest and that area was roped off. But that was not to be. A large bus carrying SEIU (Service Employees International Union) members drove up onto the area (illegal)and unloaded right there. It was quite a commotion and there were specifically 2 SEIU men trying to make trouble and start a fight. Police did get involved and arrested the one man but they said they did not have the manpower to remove the SEIU crowd.
The SEIU crowd was very organized and young. About 99% were under the age of 30 and they were not locals! They had bullhorns and PROFESSIONALLY made signs. Some even wore preprinted T-shirts. Oh, and Planned Parenthood folks were with them.....professing abortion rights with their T-shirts and preprinted signs. (BTW, all these folks did have a permit to protest in ANOTHER area)

Those against healthcare/spending moved away from the SEIU crowd to avoid confrontation. They were orderly and respectful. Even though SEIU kept coming over and walking through, continuing to be very intimidating and aggressive at the direction of the one SEIU man.

So we had Montana folks from ALL OVER the state with their homemade signs and their DOGS with homemade signs. We had cowboys, nurses, doctors you name it. There was even a guy from Texas who had been driving through. He found out about the occasion, went to the store, made a sign, and came to protest.

If you are wondering about the press.....Well, all of the major networks were over by that remote hangar I mentioned. They were conveniently parked on the other side of the buildings FAR away. None of these crowds were even visible to them. I have my doubts that they knew anything about the crowds.
We did have some local news media around us from this state and Idaho . Speaking of the local media...they were invited. However, all questions were to be turned into the White House in advance of the event.. Wouldn't want anyone to have to think off the top of their head.

It was very obvious that it was meant to be totally controlled by the White House. Everything was orchestrated down to the last detail to make it appear that Montana is just crazy for Obama and government healthcare. Even those people that talked about their insurance woes........the White House called our local HRDC (Human Resource and Development Committee) and asked for names. Then the White House asked those folks to come. Smoke and mirrors...EVERYTHING was staged!!!!!!!!!!!

I am very dismayed about what I learned about our current White House. The amount of control and manipulation was unbelievable. I felt I was not living in the United States of America , more like the USSR !! I was physically nauseous. Bill and I have been around when Presidents or Heads of State visit. It has NEVER been like this. I am truly very frightened for our country. America needs your prayers and your voices. If you care about our country please get involved. Know the issues. And let Congress hear your voices again and again!! If they are willing to put forth so much effort to BULLY a small town one can only imagine what is going on in Washington DC . Scary!!



K. in Bozeman , Montana

[Kollerkrot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProudUSC:
A witness's account of the President's town hall meeting in Bozeman, Montana. This was sent to me via email, so I don't have a link, but this was an eye-opener for me.

Edit: Found a link to a similar account of the event here:

http://atr.org/happened-outsid...-hall-meeting-a3757#


Hello All,

By now you have probably heard that President Obama came to Montana last Friday. However, there are many things that the major news has not covered. I feel that since Bill and I live here and we were at the airport on Friday I should share some facts with you. Whatever you decide to do with the information is up to you. If you chose to share this email with others I do ask that you DELETE my email address before you forward this on.

On Wednesday, August 5th it was announced locally that the President would be coming here. There are many groups here that are against his healthcare and huge spending so those groups began talking and deciding on what they were going to do. The White House would not release ANY details other than the date..

On about Tuesday Bill found out that they would be holding the "Town Hall" at the airport. (This is only because Bill knows EVERYONE at the airport) Our airport is actually located outside of Belgrade (tiny town) in a very remote location. Nothing is around there. They chose to use a hangar that is the most remotely located hangar. You could not pick a more remote location, and you can not get to it easily. It is totally secluded from the public.
FYI: We have many areas in Belgrade and Bozeman which could have held a large amount of folks with sufficient parking. (gymnasiums/auditoriums). All of which have chairs and tables, and would not have to be SHIPPED IN!! $$$$$
During the week, cargo by the TONS was being shipped in constantly. Airport employees could not believe how it just kept coming. Though it was our President coming several expressed how excessive it was, especially during a recession. $$$$$

Late Tuesday/early Wednesday the 12th, they said that tickets would be handed out on Thursday 9am at two locations and the president would be arriving around 12:30 Friday.

Thursday morning about 600 tickets were passed out. However, 1500 were printed at a Local printing shop per White House request. Hmmmm......900 tickets just DISAPPEARED.
This same morning someone called into the radio from the local UPS branch and said that THOUSANDS of Dollars of Lobster were shipped in for Obama. Montana has some of the best beef in the nation!!! And it would have been really wonderful to help out the local economy. Anyone heard of the Recession?? Just think...with all of the traveling the White House is doing. $$$$$ One can only imagine what else we are paying for.

On Friday Bill and I got out to the airport about 10:45am. The groups that wanted to protest Obama's spending and healthcare had gotten a permit to protest and that area was roped off. But that was not to be. A large bus carrying SEIU (Service Employees International Union) members drove up onto the area (illegal)and unloaded right there. It was quite a commotion and there were specifically 2 SEIU men trying to make trouble and start a fight. Police did get involved and arrested the one man but they said they did not have the manpower to remove the SEIU crowd.
The SEIU crowd was very organized and young. About 99% were under the age of 30 and they were not locals! They had bullhorns and PROFESSIONALLY made signs. Some even wore preprinted T-shirts. Oh, and Planned Parenthood folks were with them.....professing abortion rights with their T-shirts and preprinted signs. (BTW, all these folks did have a permit to protest in ANOTHER area)

Those against healthcare/spending moved away from the SEIU crowd to avoid confrontation. They were orderly and respectful. Even though SEIU kept coming over and walking through, continuing to be very intimidating and aggressive at the direction of the one SEIU man.

So we had Montana folks from ALL OVER the state with their homemade signs and their DOGS with homemade signs. We had cowboys, nurses, doctors you name it. There was even a guy from Texas who had been driving through. He found out about the occasion, went to the store, made a sign, and came to protest.

If you are wondering about the press.....Well, all of the major networks were over by that remote hangar I mentioned. They were conveniently parked on the other side of the buildings FAR away. None of these crowds were even visible to them. I have my doubts that they knew anything about the crowds.
We did have some local news media around us from this state and Idaho . Speaking of the local media...they were invited. However, all questions were to be turned into the White House in advance of the event.. Wouldn't want anyone to have to think off the top of their head.

It was very obvious that it was meant to be totally controlled by the White House. Everything was orchestrated down to the last detail to make it appear that Montana is just crazy for Obama and government healthcare. Even those people that talked about their insurance woes........the White House called our local HRDC (Human Resource and Development Committee) and asked for names. Then the White House asked those folks to come. Smoke and mirrors...EVERYTHING was staged!!!!!!!!!!!

I am very dismayed about what I learned about our current White House. The amount of control and manipulation was unbelievable. I felt I was not living in the United States of America , more like the USSR !! I was physically nauseous. Bill and I have been around when Presidents or Heads of State visit. It has NEVER been like this. I am truly very frightened for our country. America needs your prayers and your voices. If you care about our country please get involved. Know the issues. And let Congress hear your voices again and again!! If they are willing to put forth so much effort to BULLY a small town one can only imagine what is going on in Washington DC . Scary!!



K. in Bozeman , Montana </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Proud,

What was the eye-opener? The lobster being shipped in, so they can offer fish with the beef? They don't have any seafood in Montana - do they? The comparison that US will turn USSR? The rallies going on in a democratic nation?

I don't get the eye-opener? They are talking about and being scared of loosing freedom, when it is actually that more choice would be offered. These people don't know what they are talking about. They are afraid of their own speculations!

As far as forwarding this message - the buck stops right here on my PC.