...talking about National Healthcare...!

[Kollerkrot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robin Horton:
Koller I wish you well but you sound like your making fun of other people's opinions and choice in this nation you wish to call your home.

Some might call you ignorant for not taking care of your mess in Germany before it escalated to the situation your currently in. But I've not seen anyone make fun of you all other's have done is offer you support and help. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's called Schadenfreude....and, fair and democratic as I am, I'll grant the opposition Schadenfreude if they have a valid reason to experience it the way I have here.

Tootle-loo!!

[federale86]

Not as hansome as you are beautiful.

But here is more wonderful info on the NHS:

Pakistani Terrorist Doctors In The UK

Muslim Doctors And Nurses Refuse To Wash

[Brit4064]

Koller: fedNUT-E86 after a night on the town. Attractive eh? LOL

[ProudUSC]

LOL, talk about not being able to walk a straight line. Too funny!

[Brit4064]

Long live the NHS Those poor State-owned doctors right? Think again:

NHS doctors from Sicko

Note the emphasis on preventative healthcare.

[Brit4064]

I knew "no limits" davdah would come back on that! So predictable. In other words doctors are in it for the money only according to him. Forget the healthcare part - their job that's just a nuisance to them. I'd rather have a dedicated "poor" doctor working on me than a highly paid slouch of a doctor. The highly paid slouch is probably why medical malpractice lawyers are needed here LOL

Doctors are supposed to take an oath to do what's best for you the patient, not what's best for them in $$$

[Kollerkrot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
Why not? Why should there be limits? If a person is good enough the market will determine what they are paid. That is why we got to where we are.

Would it be fair to set the pay on pilots at a certain level that can not be exceeded. You are not paid any more than the clown who trashes half the cargo they carry or beats the krap out of every plane they fly. No matter how good a job you try to do there is never going to be a reward for more effort. How long would you stay motivated to do a better job? About 5 minutes once you figured it out.

This is why the soviet union collapsed. It is why any socialist country never grows, it slowly dies. People want to be directly rewarded for the effort given. No one clings to the far flung aspirations put out by the government that everyone must work together for the collective good. The amount of faith you or anyone has in that philosophy is demonstrated by the amount of charity you do. How many give their 10%? Not many. If people won't even muster that how can anyone reasonably expect people to put forth 100% when it will not benefit them directly?

Bottom line. The paycheck must be allowed to mimic the effort. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...in Germany it does! I am not that familiar with the British-system I think it is different in Germany. The doctors dont work for the Government there. They are in private practice, but do accept patients insured by the government and so do hospitals. So, for every practice, it is only a certain percentage of patients, that would come from a government funded insurance. In Germany, (unless it is an emergency) a practice even has the right to not accept Government Insurance at all. It's completely up to the doctor and they do live really good!

Oh, I have to update/edit this: In Germany the insurance funds, are actually not government money either, they are self-funded by the insured (umbrella organization - with the government at the helm.). So, there are several funds to get into, which are usually structured according to profession, guild or union, however, there are others also, which are run by the counties or cities - these are considered "General Funds" and are classified the cheapest. A company over 1000 employees can have and manage its own fund.

The government only function is to make it mandatory that every employer makes sure that every employee is insured and it is his duty to take the money out of gross pay and fund the proper insurance.

It's been so long, I don't really remember all the details, but I'll look into it. And, I never really had time to have a detailed look over what Obama is proposing.

The German system is obviously different than the British.

[Brit4064]

Well take a look at the Philippine system. Despite being a "developing country" they do have an NHS of sorts. The way it works there is the hospital and regular staff are paid for through general taxation but the doctors are private. That way the carrot remains for the doctors to earn more (and supposedly better quality?) but the overall cost to the patient is kept under control. Maybe the US should take a look at it?

[Brit4064]

Well come on then Mr "no limits" davdah..what do you on the Right propose...or do you?

(and please no more less taxes, less government bit!)

[4now]

I think most people would be ok if they had the same plan/options as the senators healthcare plan

I havent had chance to read entire, but does anybody know if dental is included and to what extent?

Brittie... how does UK handle the dental.. or do they not address it all... ? (No, I am not trying to be funny)

[Brit4064]

Before you argue for medical malpractice caps only as a way to reform healthcare davdah...read this:

Cap Malpractice Awards - Does It Work?

Texas was the first state to cap malpractice awards. This occurred in 2003 when Texas lawmakers passed a statute limiting malpractice awards at $250,000. The Bush administration urged passage of similar laws in each state. Subsequently, states found strong opposition by consumer and legal groups and strong support by hospital and medical groups.

Proponents argue that laws which cap malpractice awards help reduce health care costs. They purport that physicians must pay malpractice insurance premiums which increase when courts grant large malpractice awards. These premium increases are passed on by physicians to patients.

Opponents argue that laws which cap malpractice awards are unjust for patients who suffer at the hands of medical personnel and that the awards should be related to the extent of the injury to the patient. Patient injuries can range from temporary but painful medical problems such as surgical instruments erroneously left in the patient to permanent lifetime injuries, such as quadriplegia, resulting from treatment error. Therefore, a capped malpractice award may be inadequate.

NOTE:

Industry and consumer analysts found that stock market gains and losses had a greater impact on insurance companies overall financial results than malpractice claim payments and therefore premium increases were more directly related to stock market results than malpractice awards. Further, GE Medical Protective, the largest malpractice insurer, argued argued for a rate increase in Texas stating that malpractice caps did not reduce premiums.

goarticles.om

[Brit4064]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4now:
I think most people would be ok if they had the same plan/options as the senators healthcare plan

I havent had chance to read entire, but does anybody know if dental is included and to what extent?

Brittie... how does UK handle the dental.. or do they not address it all... ? (No, I am not trying to be funny) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dental is included as are vision and hearing. Much like the medical area, they moved towards preventative healthcare. An example, at one check up some of my rear teeth were getting a risk of cavities so they applied a permanent paste that "glazed" them to prevent further decay. To this day I've never had any problems with them and that was done in the early 90s.

[Sprint_girl07]

RE: Dental under the NHS..

For those on low income or unemployed etc.. dental is free at a dental surgery that accepts NHS patients. There are less these days because dentists are seeing $$ and are either going private or just refuse to take over an x amount of NHS patients.

If you see a dentist under NHS, then basically you can only get what they say you are allowed to have, for example, gold/silver fillings, but not white ones at back. White you have to pay yourself for or the extra.
In fact that is pretty much what they do here isn't it under Medicaid or whatever it is.

Now for those that work and go to a NHS dentist, then you have discount. You have option to be a private patient of NHS one and costs differ. Same Dentist but your choice of materials maybe and work to be done.

Dentists used to remind you to come in for check up once every 6 months, but it may be 1 yr now, not sure.

Under NHS, opticians work pretty much same. You get discount under NHS, free if you don't work (except if you want to upgrade glasses to better cooler ones) and usually they remind you to come in once a year for check up.

NHS also cover wigs, mental health and loads more things. Whether discounted or free for certain people, like the eldery and children under 16 or 18 in some cases.

Prescriptions, if you are long term sick and need those meds, they could either be free of at discount too. For example my friend who takes meds for depression, even though she is working, she gets a discount as long term. When she was on low income, she had the prescriptions free.

Prescriptions are one price, regardless how much the medication costs.

All services call you in for check ups. Even my physician used to call me in every year for full medical. Checks my immunizations, my blood works (chloestrol, diabetes etc).
Women were always called in for their yearly Pap smear, breast check and all those things. Nurse would do that, so no need to bother the doctor unless there was a problem.

We also have well women clinics that are part of the NHS. That is a God Send! Prevents women getting cancer and all the usual things that most women tend to not check.

[Brit4064]

Again notice the emphasis on preventative care? This could be so easily done over here too IF there's a will AND the system is changed to remove the profit motive from treatment to prevention. Obviously there will always be a need for treatment too.

[Brit4064]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by davdah:
My idea is very simple. Remove punitive damages from any medical based litigation. All legal issues would be settled via binding arbitration only. Those two steps would eliminate most of what drove the cost of medicine through the roof. With that we would see 100 a month premiums for entire family coverage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem with this is what happens if a catastrophic medical event happens because of malpractice or mistake rendering one unable to work again or worse? Do you just say "sorry it's one of those things"? An example:

WOMAN DIES AFTER BREAST-CANCER MIX-UP

A young woman died after surgery to remove both breasts - all because of a horrendous blunder by Mercy Medical Center.

She didn't even have cancer. Her lab results were mixed up with someone else's, officials said.

The unidentified woman's left-breast biopsy tissue had been "interchanged" with another patient's at the Rockville Centre, LI, hospital in May, says a state Health Department report obtained by The Post

Told she had cancer, the woman, who had a family history of breast cancer, chose to have a double mastectomy and breast implants inserted.

She died a day after surgery.

The state faulted the hospital's lab director for failing to have staff properly identify and label specimens.

Mercy Medical Center said it "profoundly regrets the consequences of the tragic error" and has taken steps "to ensure that a such an event will not occur in the future."

NYpost.com

While the money won't bring back the person, it would send a signal to hospitals and doctors these mix-ups just should not happen..ever. Unfortunately they continue to do so.

I noticed during my blood transfusions recently they had to have 2 nurses present, one to read the blood group type on the unit of blood to be transfused and the other to double check it. I made sure it was the right type too!