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  • #16
    "Illegals lower wages for others. Supply vs Demand. If people will work for cheap, employers will seek them out and hire them.

    Who suffers -- americans."

    Don't get me wrong, I believe that illigal immigrants are criminals, and must be arrested and deported.

    BUT, I have to disagree with this point - you are forgetting, that the "employers" are americans too, and they are the ones who very much benefit from this, not suffer.
    Besides, it makes it possible for them to lower their costs, and make the prices lower, and let other americans benefit from that as well.

    Illegal immigrants are not the only ones who compete with american wages. Lots of jobs are being outsourced lately.

    And my opinion is that this is happenning not because the foreigners are so cheap, but rather because americans are so **** expensive.

    You are right - this is a "Supply vs Demand." issue. Some stupid envelope stuffing job just isn't worth 8 bucks per hour, and no employer in the right mind will want to pay that kind of money for it... as long as he can find any way to get it done cheaper.... And when he can't, he'll have to, but then your 8 bucks will become like 80 cents.


    • #17
      It's a freaking epidemic I tell you ! Get out now !!


      • #18
        Weasel--You claim Americans are expensive. If that's so, why are we expensive?

        --Because the cost of living here is high in comparison with the rest of the world. The "American" employers who benefit don't pass on the savings from using illegal aliens to consumers, but pocket them or invest them overseas these days. They want to pay third world wages here, but charge first world prices.
        You might also note that these same employers lobby against the importation of cheaper goods made overseas. Just why is it so dangerous to import pharmaceuticals from Canada? It's not. But the pharmaceutical industry wants American consumers to pay for the research and development costs of products it produces and sells worldwide.

        --It was actually Henry Ford who started offering the $5 day to his workers in the early 19th century, very good wages for the day, because he realized that in order to support the mass production of his automobile, he needed a mass market of consumers as well. Remember, workers are also consumers. And to be a viable market for many goods, especially cars, computers, etc., you need not only people but people with money.

        --Unlike some countries, such as Europe or Canada, we have to pay for our own health insurance or the employer does. If we use public aid such as Medicaid, the taxpayer pays for it. Of course, illegal aliens view this as a "free" good for them.

        --Again, unlike some countries, we provide a minimum level of security for our elderly or disabled, instead of requiring them to beg in the street. Even then, however, most Americans are expected to set aside their own funds for retirement because they'll need them (SS is only a floor, not a comfortable life) and most companies no longer provide pensions. Americans also have the great good sense not to produce large numbers of children that they can't support in the hopes that said children will support them in old age.

        --We provide "defense" for most of the world at our cost. Again, the taxes to do this come from taxpayer dollars.

        --Public education. College costs are rising far faster than inflation in general. Public schools K-12 have to pay for ESL and special help for immigrant children. Perhaps we should do away with these "free" programs?

        --The U.S. infrastructure (interstate highways, airports, telecommunications, etc.) that immigrants take for granted, and which help commercial interests as well. All paid for by tax monies, taxes paid on wages Americans earn.

        --I've no doubt omitted a number of benefits (home mortgages, clean sewer and water, libraries, etc.) that get suuported by gov't. or paid for out of taxes, and therefore out of wages. Immigrants, especially illegal aliens, are only too willing to view these as somehow falling from heaven. They don't. They're part of a decision we as a nation made about what a civil society provides and needs to pay for.

        I think you'll find that legal immigrants find out in a hurry just how expensive life is here. In fact, even after years and years here, they disproportionately live below our poverty level. Of course, that may still be better than what they've left. But those high wages we ask for support the lifestyle they came here for--the "American Dream".


        • #19

          You only want her so you can avoid paying regular wages, social security taxes and benefits. You don't want to "help" anyone; you just want cheap labor to do YOUR housework and are taking advantage of an ignorant and desperate human being. You are breaking the following laws and you have been reported to the authorities 1) Harboring an illegal alien 2) Trafficking of human beings for a slave market 3) Tax Evasion 4) Paying less than the minimum wage 4) Perjury before this court; GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY NOW YOU FRAUDSTER !!!


          • #20
            "If that's so, why are we expensive?"

            -- Ummm... Because we can, maybe? :-)
            I think, it's a mentality issue, and a little of getting used to more than anything else.
            We are used to a certain level of luxury in our lives, and we don't want to give it up. That's pretty understandable, isn't it?

            We also have so many government programs and private charities and what not, that make it possible to so many of us to live decent (if not luxurious) lives without ever having to work at all.

            And, yes, the cost of living too ... but, think about it - is it really the cause of americans being expensive or is it rather a result of it?

            What is our cost of living comprised of? The mortgage (tied to inflation, caused by the prices going up, caused by us being expensive), insurance costs (think about these ridiculous figures you see on a doctor's bill after a routine physical), taxes (the givernment oficials are americans too - no reason to expect them to be any less expensive), etc., etc....

            "Because the cost of living here is high in comparison with the rest of the world."

            -- Not really. The cost of living here is only high when you want to live in a nice house, drive a cool car, have fun vacations... that is expensive.
            The basic food here is cheaper then in many not-so-rich places of the world. The apartement rental is cheaper too, if you live in conditions, comparable to those they live in in the "rest of the world". Etc.


            • #21
              Sure, we have become accustomed to lots of goodies in our lives. But don't kid yourself--many if not most immigrants and illegal aliens are here not to provide the basics for themselves but to get all they can. Why else would someone who in a few years can earn enough here to live comfortably in their homeland stay? To buy the fanciest house in their hometown in China. To buy their mother in Mexico 6 TVs and several VCRs. To buy the SUV to show off for the neighbors on the visits home. To get a better dowry from their bride's family in India. About the remittances which often go to buy these nonessentials rather than build infrastructure. So please, don't blame Americans for being "expensive". The only reason people in other countries aren't is because of a lack of opportunity--a lack that usually comes from circumstances largely of their own making, such as their political/economic system or their choice to have 12 kids (yes, a poor Mexican woman who had 12 living kids blamed the U.S. for Mexico's problems) which creates too many workers competing for too few jobs and too little education.


              • #22
                I had my 10 gallons of kerosene, but I used it on one fraudster already
                I burned basdard alive!

                Now I have a gasoline!!!
                Come help me burn those Mexican GRINTS!!!

                No, they won't get ITIN, 6set TV or house here!!! No way!!!

                Because me and you, we will organize 'Burn the Mexican alive, Light the Streets, Save Taxpayers Money' movement !!!

                We will burn all those Mexicans at night! IMAGINE how much electricity can be saved!!!
                We will lit the streets, and if we burn all 8 million Mexicans that are here illegally, imagine how many nights and how many streets and towns we can bring the light into! Not to mention significant savings to taxpayers who otherwise have to pay into budget for city lights!!!

                BURN, GRINTS,BURN!!!


                • #23
                  Uh - excellent E !!!


                  • #24
                    "But don't kid yourself--many if not most immigrants and illegal aliens are here not to provide the basics for themselves but to get all they can."

                    -- Is it really any different from the most of us :-)

                    Let me say it again - I am not defending them - they are violating the law, and must be punished for it.
                    I am only arguing with you on that "undercutting minimum wage" issue...
                    My point is that we are not just expensive - we are really overpriced. And this fact will come and bite us in many ways...

                    "Why else would someone who in a few years can earn enough here to live comfortably in their homeland stay?"

                    -- I am not sure what you mean by this.
                    If we are still talking about those, undercutting our minimum wages, I don't see how you expect them "earn enough in a few years" for the rest of their lives...
                    Or are you talking about something else now?

                    "To buy the fanciest house in their hometown in China. To buy their mother in Mexico 6 TVs and several VCRs. To buy the SUV to show off for the neighbors on the visits home."

                    -- You seem to have kinda naive view of "comfortable living"... but anyway...
                    Let's just see... Take an SUV for example.

                    Let's pick some cheap one, for about 30K. If you earn 4 bucks an hour, you have to work 7,500 hours to earn enough money for that SUV. That is, if you do not eat anything at all, and live on a public beach... i.e., if you do not spend ANY of that money at all.
                    7,500 working hours is a little more then 3,5 years...
                    And, remember, that is how long it would take you to get an SUV, if you did not spend any money. And if you also have to eat, and live somewhere, and all that for 4 bucks an hour...
                    well, I guess, you could still pick uyp 6 VCRs out of the garbage... but that's about it.


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