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Ronald Reagan's Birth Certificate

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  • #46
    The problem is, the answer given is only prima facie. It isn't actual evidence. If there was nothing but speculation to provoke a question, then it would be just that. In this case, there is substantive circumstantial and other to provoke a legitimate inquiry.

    If this were an office commensurate with a low level bureaucrat, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Being president, it's the biggest deal of all and all cards should be played face up. That's why I have a problem with how it's been dealt with. We've been 'handled' and I'm not comfortable with it.
    This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by davdah:
      How so? A question isn't the lie. When the question to a statement goes unanswered, all the more the statement falls to a darker light. For the last time, I'm not a politician. Do it again and my trusty hound might take a hankerin for some yer hide.
      Here is what my question was referring to:
      The fact is. The people who do know aren't speaking because of the upheaval it would cause. That is why no judge is willing to allow even a cursory examination of the evidence to take place. Once the web begins to unravel all hell would break loose. Christ, look at what's recently happened in other countries over 'politics'. Not a good reason to lie? It's the most common. In this instance, it's picking the lesser of two evils that instills silence in the ranks.
      Is this statement a lie davdah?
      "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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      • #48
        Originally posted by davdah:
        The problem is, the answer given is only prima facie. It isn't actual evidence. If there was nothing but speculation to provoke a question, then it would be just that. In this case, there is substantive circumstantial and other to provoke a legitimate inquiry.

        If this were an office commensurate with a low level bureaucrat, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Being president, it's the biggest deal of all and all cards should be played face up. That's why I have a problem with how it's been dealt with. We've been 'handled' and I'm not comfortable with it.
        This is the legal definition of prima facie evidence Davdah.

        Prima facie is evidence. What you are getting confused is that prima facie does not have to be conclusive to prove reasonable doubt. that is what court and a trial by jury is for.

        However, as previously stated, every birther case has been rejected because it had no prima facie evidence to begin with nor has the case been found in legal standing to be tried in the first case.

        As far as the courts are concerned, the case is closed. Time to move on to something anew.
        "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

        Comment


        • #49
          Again, BritNut can't anwer the question. Why won't Obama release his original birth certificate?

          Comment


          • #50
            OK, BritNut, why don't you post the original birth certificate? Why, because Obama won't release it. Why not?

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            • #51
              For the umpteenth time..HE's ALREADY RELEASED IT!!! What part of that don't you Birthers understand??
              "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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              • #52
                His birth certificate has never been released. What you see on the proceeding page is computer generated receipt of a supposed birth certificate. I just recently had San Diego County send me my birth certificate. It contained my mother's signature and that of the physician who delivered me. Also sorts of details that show a human hand that are missing from Obama's html coded (computer generated) certificate. Remember there were no computers in hospitals in the 1960's. There is no way that this is what was filed out and filed away in 1961. They used printed forms from a printing press and typewriters (remember those things?) to fill in the blank spaces or hand written them in using an ink pen.

                In regard to the word "birther" I had read a book called "Combating Cultic Mind Control by Steven Hassen. One method those use in a cult to limit critical thought is loaded language.

                "Loaded language serves several purposes:"

                "Concepts can be relabeled with emotionally charged words which carry preconceived notions. These can be used to make something seem automatically positive and impossible to argue against, or inherently negative -- impossible to argue for."

                I am sad to say our media is not above using such tactics to manipulate public thought. To risk being labeled a "birther" or "truther" or even a more vitriol version of the later "troofer" is more than some people are willing to take.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Oh boy, another Birther. Yes you're right, computers weren't in use a lot in the 1960s BUT while the certificate he presented isn't the original one, it is an abstract one (a computer generated format which many US States now use) from which details are taken from the original and has been publicly sworn as true and correct by at least 2 high ranking HI officials.

                  Sorry, nothing here to see. Move along please.
                  "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I have to agree with Brittie on this one. This is such an old, dead tired issue. The courts have had their say and people need to move on. If anyone has other issues regarding how Obama is leading the country, freely discuss them, but his birth certificate isn't of substance anymore.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Brit, you would make a good cult member. Glad to see you admit that the original birth certificate has not been released. Why? Why? Why? It would so shut up those annoying "birthers" right? When somebody is trying to stop you from investigating and looking into something there usually is something they are trying to hide. Why did Bill Clinton have his medical records sealed? Could it have something to do with something Roger Clinton said on a police video taken during his cocaine bust? (which I have seen) "I'm going to need a lot of this stuff because my brother has a nose like a vacuum cleaner". Governments and politicians LIE and they coverup and cut deals to remain silent. Both sides are guilty as he.ll doing it.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Maxx, the issue of the birth certificate has been tried and overturned. It's a moot point now. I didn't vote for Obama, but I'm an American and will support him because he is my President. I'm tired of people using this birth certificate issue to try and unravel him. He's not leading the country alone and the Congress is still s.crewed up, so maybe we'll see some light come 2012.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Proudie is right. It's an old, tired issue. It's immaterial that he hasn't showed the original one because the abstract one is produced from it. If there were no original birth certificate, he would not have been able to get an abstract one. The abstract one clearly shows he was born in HI.

                          The courts won't take hearsay evidence and not one Birther in more than 2 years has been able to produce any real evidence against it. Don't you think the CIA and FBI would have investigated it too if it were a fake?

                          As far as the law of the land goes and as far as I'm concerned, he is a qualified USC. End of story. If you don't like it, then change the law. This issue is being used by the far-Right as a way (they think) of undermining his Presidency. If they want to remove him they should be concentrating on finding somebody capable of beating him in 2012.
                          "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Don't you think the CIA and FBI would have investigated it too if it were a fake?
                            You have a lot more faith in them than I do. I remember watching the Church committee hearings back in the 70's and seeing the stuff they pulled. Lying was the least of their sins. I seen Watergate unfold. Nixon on TV saying her was no crook. His Vice President Spiro Agnew resigning because of embezzlement fraud and his replacement, Congressman Gerald Ford, a former member of the Warren Commission giving "Tricky ****" a pardon later. Then some years later Iran contra directed out of the White House basement and overseen by George H.W. Bush, former director of the CIA.

                            The point? It is VERY useful to have something hanging over the president's head. Those that cooperate get promoted. Those that don't take a fall. Obama is a tool for the big bankers and the military/security complex. Besides sealing his school records at the beginning of his administration he kept on Bush's defense secretary Bill Gates then expanded the war he said he was going to end. Then he went along and helped bail out the bankers and kept his regulatory departments from fully investigating them. They got Trillions while he got all their men to layer his administration. Look at his new chief of staff. The former head of JP Morgan and Chase bank of New York. Need I say more on who really is running things? If Mc Cain had been elected president he would have done the same EXACT thing. You have to be a fool to trust any of these people.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              This is the legal definition of prima facie evidence Davdah.

                              Prima facie is evidence. What you are getting confused is that prima facie does not have to be conclusive to prove reasonable doubt. that is what court and a trial by jury is for.


                              That is exactly what it troubling. It isn't conclusive and the steps to prove it one way or the other have been thwarted. That raises even more suspicion.
                              This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                [quote]Originally posted by davdah:
                                That is exactly what it troubling. It isn't conclusive and the steps to prove it one way or the other have been thwarted. That raises even more suspicion.
                                Nothing is conclusive except death, taxes, and insurance, and not neccessarily in that order.
                                "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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