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Ronald Reagan's Birth Certificate

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  • #31
    What does the rest of it say? The bottom says, "this serves as prima facie evidence...." What does that mean? Well....

    It is used in modern legal English to signify that on first examination, a matter appears to be self-evident from the facts. In common law jurisdictions, prima facie denotes evidence which – unless rebutted – would be sufficient to prove a particular proposition or fact.



    It's an abstract and not an equivalent to anything beyond the four corners of the document. The actual certificate has not been offered. There is no officiating signature attesting to it's authenticity which would be on an actual birth certificate.

    Plenty of rebuttals have been given and no substantiating evidence offered. Just as things are done prima facie in immigration to be later followed up with supporting documents, this to must be elaborated upon with further proof, like the actual certificate. To date it has not been given. Hence, this alone can not be counted as proof of fact. Objection overruled Brit.
    This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by davdah:
      What does the rest of it say? The bottom says, "this serves as prima facie evidence...." What does that mean? Well....

      It is used in modern legal English to signify that on first examination, a matter appears to be self-evident from the facts. In common law jurisdictions, prima facie denotes evidence which – unless rebutted – would be sufficient to prove a particular proposition or fact.



      It's an abstract and not an equivalent to anything beyond the four corners of the document. The actual certificate has not been offered. There is no officiating signature attesting to it's authenticity which would be on an actual birth certificate.

      Plenty of rebuttals have been given and no substantiating evidence offered. Just as things are done prima facie in immigration to be later followed up with supporting documents, this to must be elaborated upon with further proof, like the actual certificate. To date it has not been given. Hence, this alone can not be counted as proof of fact. Objection overruled Brit.
      Davdah,
      When the police arrest you, it is based on prima facie evidence. It is rebutted in a court of law.

      Prima Facia evidence is taken on the assumption of fact. You can challenge all you want to, waste as much money as you like, but no court is going to argue on the merits that you "merely have questions" based on pure political idealogy. You are going to have to come up with something a lot better than what has been denied again and again and again and again and again and again.
      "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by federale86:
        Again for the nuts who can't read. The question is not if the birth certificate exists, but what is on it.

        What are Obama, Brit, and Hudson afraid of? What information is so dangerous that it must be hidden from pubic sight? What piece of information on that birth certificate is so frightening?

        Sworn in a statement? What sort of statement? A PR release? Before a court of law? Did he swear to what information is on it? Did he identify the hospital that Obama was born at?
        A sworn statement is a statement signed under penalties and perjury FED. You of all peope shoud have known this. ****, even Karl Rove stated the Birther issue will bring down the Republican party. And he is afraid of nobody FED.
        "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

        Comment


        • #34
          Since when does one go to the DMV with a US birth certificate as proof of citizenship to get a driver license and it gets turned down because its only prima facie evidence?

          If that were the case then every USC in HI (and probably most if not all other States) wouldn't qualify for a DL.
          "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

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          • #35
            Hudson, the basis of this is politics. An elected official has questionable credentials based on other prima facie evidence suggesting he doesn't meet the qualifications.

            This should be tried in a court. But to date, the people have not been given their day because of the political hacks on the left denying the constitutional rights of the people. We have a God given right to know the fricken truth and the politicians a responsibility to deliver it. Until then, this is a sham.



            Brit, you're an idiot. A real birth certificate doesn't have the prima facie limitation printed on it. Only a conjured up hearsay document such as the one posted by the obama-maniacs does.
            This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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            • #36
              The certificate might well have the prima facie wording on it but since the fact that 2 high ranking HI Dept. of Vital Statistics officials have publicly sworn they have seen the original one and attest the copy is true and correct, it somewhat dilutes your prima facie angle.

              The only hearsay I see here is from you Birthers davdah. Once again, if the certificate was a forgery and it's all a big lie, then why haven't any of the many court challenges in the past 2 years ever got anywhere? The answer is simple. There's no evidence for these claims. It just makes you far Right Repubs look like sore loosers more than 2 years on. Get over it.
              "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

              Comment


              • #37
                Publicly sworn? What sort of compelling argument is that? Big freakin deal. Any clown can say what ever they want in the public eye. Doesn't make it true. Why wasn't it produced during discovery as was asked a gazillian times? That's where and when it would have counted. The more theatrics and arrogance put forth dodging that one simple act, the more mistrust it creates. Is it any wonder his approval rating are in the toilet.


                What is so difficult about showing it? It's no different than what you, me and anyone else has to do for various things, including immigration matters. A prima facie won't cut it at USCIS. It shouldn't for the American people either. What is so intrusive about producing something that would squelch the nay saying in one fell swoop instead of hiding behind a bogus claim of privacy? He's the president. If he wanted privacy, don't run for public office.

                Sore losers my a$$. The dimbuld leftwing numbskulls sold their souls to the devil and they're too maliciously blind to see it.
                This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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                • #38
                  Ok then davdah, spend some of your money and start a lawsuit to prove his birth certificate is a forgery. If you claim the 2 HI officials are lying but offer no real evidence against it other than "Any clown can say what ever they want in the public eye", I guarantee you will loose.

                  As for approval ratings...

                  Nonetheless, Obama's 53 percent approval rating at the start of his third year in office is six points better than Bill Clinton's at the same time in his presidency and 16 points better than Ronald Reagan's figure in January of 1983.

                  CNN.com

                  The GOP should concentrate on picking a leader who could beat Obama in 2012 instead of quietly encouraging the diversionary Birther freakshow.
                  "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by davdah:
                    Hudson, the basis of this is politics. An elected official has questionable credentials based on other prima facie evidence suggesting he doesn't meet the qualifications.

                    This should be tried in a court. But to date, the people have not been given their day because of the political hacks on the left denying the constitutional rights of the people. We have a God given right to know the fricken truth and the politicians a responsibility to deliver it. Until then, this is a sham.
                    Your wrong Davdah, It has been tried in court and never met the basic requirement to go any further. Several Republican judges have ruled against this including the current US Supreme Court.

                    Second, since when is the director of the Bureau of Vital Statisics an elected official?

                    BTW, if you are going to question the authority on this, then so must the accuser, ie you Davdah and which you have questionalbe credentials as well.
                    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by davdah:
                      Publicly sworn? What sort of compelling argument is that? Big freakin deal. Any clown can say what ever they want in the public eye. Doesn't make it true. Why wasn't it produced during discovery as was asked a gazillian times? That's where and when it would have counted. The more theatrics and arrogance put forth dodging that one simple act, the more mistrust it creates. Is it any wonder his approval rating are in the toilet.


                      What is so difficult about showing it? It's no different than what you, me and anyone else has to do for various things, including immigration matters. A prima facie won't cut it at USCIS. It shouldn't for the American people either. What is so intrusive about producing something that would squelch the nay saying in one fell swoop instead of hiding behind a bogus claim of privacy? He's the president. If he wanted privacy, don't run for public office.

                      Sore losers my a$$. The dimbuld leftwing numbskulls sold their souls to the devil and they're too maliciously blind to see it.
                      Whether you like it or not, the fact remains there is no evidence, none, zilch, zero, to indicate the statement is false. Simply stating it on AM radio or if Rush Limbaugh says it also does not make it false. There is no motive for the director to lie. Politics is not a motive to lie at all, in most cases, and those cases are the extreme

                      You are venturing from fact into the conspiracy arena Davdah. In order for your theory to be true, then everyone msut be a willing participant to lie simply because of politics? What those who never voted for Obama and still do not see this as fact? Going to question them? That is scuttlebutt Davdah.

                      There are two dimbulbs on this forum right now, You and Fednut. Both are incapable of stating the truth and never will have the intellect or the integrity to face public scrutiny of anything. Congrats Davdah, you make it to the dumbest person on this earth list.
                      "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hudson, here's FedNUT and davdah in an outdoor mock trial preparing for their court hearing to prove that Obama's birth certificate is a forgery. FedNUT's in the foreground and davdah and his third wife are in the background

                        "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Politics isn't a motive to lie Hudson? You must be kidding.

                          The fact is. The people who do know aren't speaking because of the upheaval it would cause. That is why no judge is willing to allow even a cursory examination of the evidence to take place. Once the web begins to unravel all hell would break loose. Christ, look at what's recently happened in other countries over 'politics'. Not a good reason to lie? It's the most common. In this instance, it's picking the lesser of two evils that instills silence in the ranks.

                          Brit couldn't care less because obama promised him a free lunch bought and paid for by someone else.

                          Brit, Whether is be pictures or facts you've once again demonstrated the depth of your blindness. From what I gather, your most recent marital demise involved a women (loosely stated) more akin to a troglodyte than human. Of course, that might be why you need a free lunch. Your wife eats everything in sight leaving you nothing but crumbs in the carpet to scratch for.
                          This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by davdah:
                            Politics isn't a motive to lie Hudson? You must be kidding.
                            Does this mean you are lying now Davdah because of your politics?
                            "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              How so? A question isn't the lie. When the question to a statement goes unanswered, all the more the statement falls to a darker light. For the last time, I'm not a politician. Do it again and my trusty hound might take a hankerin for some yer hide.
                              This message brought to you by the vast right wing conspiracy.

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                              • #45
                                That's all fair and well if you don't answer the question however Obama has already answered it.

                                It's you Birthers that won't stop asking the question even though you offer up no real evidence to the contrary because his answer wasn't to your liking.
                                "What you see in the photograph isn't what you saw at the time. The real skill of photography is organized visual lying."

                                Comment

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