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"A Day Without a Mexican"

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  • IMPENETRABLE
    replied
    Speaking of weak throws..

    Leave a comment:


  • IMPENETRABLE
    replied
    Some info on the founder of anti-immigrant movement is here:

    http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intel...cle.jsp?aid=93

    Leave a comment:


  • IMPENETRABLE
    replied
    Anyone trying to understand where your anti-immigrant sentiments come from for now should visit WWW.FAIRUS.ORG

    Leave a comment:


  • IMPENETRABLE
    replied
    You sound much like kumna, another village genius of this board

    What we really need is not America without Americans, but America without Nazi-"FAIR" type organizations dictating to the rest how to treat American Immigrants

    Leave a comment:


  • macyuhoo
    replied
    What about a day without Americans? Will there be a more peaceful world? As an American myself, I hate to pose that question. But, with the way America is meddling in other countries' affairs, it would be nice to think about this scenario...no American in this world.

    Leave a comment:


  • IMPENETRABLE
    replied
    **** 4now **** and worship your bosses "FAIR" behind while you both keep ****ing

    Leave a comment:


  • 4now
    replied
    Well Well WEll

    Now E is trying to play "hard ball"

    ok playa.. bring it on... show me what u got.

    This was a weak throw, my freind. Try again...
    You have two more b a l l s to throw away.



    But you forget... 4now has a BIG BAT that can hit your ba l l s out of the park.

    Leave a comment:


  • IMPENETRABLE
    replied
    Indeed we don't need X-Ray glasses to see that you are the one behind this 'Punisher' ID as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4now
    replied
    Oh... Mr Penetrator.. oops I mean Punisher

    Tell me something.. you just happened to find this thread while being new to the forum and searching topics right. This worthy thread from last year and just now decided to pull it up to answer... hmmmmmmmmmm


    What do you think folks... can we all say



    hmmmmmmmmm



    Penetrator.. Please dont start doing this c r a p again. We dont need x-ray vision glasses to see what is going on.

    Leave a comment:


  • IMPENETRABLE
    replied
    'Punisher',

    The OP is copy-pasted from WWW.FAIRUS.ORG website ( belongs to organisation* founded by John Tanton - notorious immigrant hater with various links to Neo-Nazis).

    _______________________

    * organisation is called FAIR

    Leave a comment:


  • Punisher
    replied
    Posted by Beth at May 8, 2004 10:58 AM
    I have been to Mexico several times. Yes there are some beautiful beaches. The problem is that you can't step 3 feet without being harrassed by someone trying to sell you some **** or begging for a handout. Why can't Mexico do something about that? Jeff must be a dumbass. Are you telling me that illegal immigrants are getting fake social security cards so that they can pay taxes?!? That is the craziest thing I ever heard. I say, send them all back. I am tired of this country reforming to please the minority. What ever happened to the majority rules? All of you that don't like my comments can kiss my white, American born, hairy ***.

    First thing I want to say about this statement above posted by Beth is that us mexicans, dont like "white, American born, hairy ***" ******, sorry, they are just not our type, so I doubt any desperate mexican would have harrassed you Beth, I really do. Next, you piece of **** cracker! let me just tell you, we might be considered a minority, but we are the majority you dumbass! Now, I'm a U.S. citizen, but that **** that you crackers say is just inhumane, mother*******. I'm doing a project on how the US is dealing with illegal immigration and I just happened to come across this website and find this cracker named Beth talking **** about mexcicans, I was like "oh, no she didn't!" So Beth, you can kiss your own white, fat, hairy *** cuz we are just not going to, **** you! Mexicans are the ****! Hell yah!

    Leave a comment:


  • Epiclaughter
    replied
    noneofyourbusiness in typical Mexican hypocritical fashion says:

    "At least all that Mexican's had to cross was a river or a desert. We didn't have to cross a whole ocean like the rest of you and you call us the "wet backs" I think all of you are the wet backs, none of you are native to this coutry somewhere along the line your family had to have crossed that ocean. I've never heard of a Mexican cross an entire ocean."

    Response: You have never heard of a Mexican crossing an entire ocean huh? Well, I didn't cross an entire ocean either, I was born here you dolt. My family have been in Southern California for longer than probably 85% of the Mexicans that are here now. You say that "some where along the line your family had to have crossed that ocean".

    Now listen, you thick, hypocritical wench. You say that Americans had ancestors that came from over an ocean, so we are all foreigners? Aren't you forgetting something? Yes, approximately 70% of Mexicans are at least partially of Spanish descent!! Get it you hypocritical beast? No? Well, it goes like this. You see Spain is in whats called Europe. Since 70% of Mexicans have Spanish blood, that means that 70% of Mexicans had, as you said an ancestor that "crossed that ocean".

    God Mexicans are hypocrites.

    WHY IS IT THAT NO MEXICANS HAVE YET ADDRESSED ANY OF THE 5 QUESTIONS I POSTED? A LITTLE TOO TOUGH TO ANSWER MAYBE?????

    FORGOT WHAT THEY WERE? LET ME POST THEM AGAIN:

    To any Mexican out there, I have a couple of questions:

    1. Do you really think the southwest would be better off if was part of Mexico?

    2. Do you think that an overabundance of workers (excess supply) drives down wages?

    3. Who do you think treats illegal immigrants better, the US or Mexico? (remember, Mexico gets illegal immigration from El Salvador, Guatemala, etc).

    4. Does Mexico have affirmative action for "underrepresented groups" like full blooded indians and blacks?

    5. Would you rather live in Mexico or the US?

    Posted by feckLuisSanchez at May 18, 2004 10:21 PM
    1. Do you really think the southwest would be better off if was part of Mexico? NO

    2. Do you think that an overabundance of workers (excess supply) drives down wages? YES

    3. Who do you think treats illegal immigrants better, the US or Mexico? (remember, Mexico gets illegal immigration from El Salvador, Guatemala, etc). US

    4. Does Mexico have affirmative action for "underrepresented groups" like full blooded indians and blacks? I DON'T KNOW

    5. Would you rather live in Mexico or the US? US


    MY PARENTS CAME HERE FOR A BETTER FUTURE. AS ILLEGALS THEY LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM. I ASKED THEM IF THEY WOULD GO BACK AND LIVE IN MEXICO AND THEY SAID THEY WOULD NOT BECAUSE THEY INVESTED TOO MUCH HERE AND ARE COMFORTABLE.

    Posted by TOM at May 18, 2004 11:36 PM
    Hey guys lets respect ourselves and each other. Don't be afraid of the unknown and love each other!

    Posted by las vegas at May 19, 2004 03:44 AM
    ****, this is getting more stupid everyday!!!! Why do we have to justify ourselves? Im sorry i got involved with this ****. But it is entertaining none the less. Jajajajaja. RAZA, GO ABOUT OUR BUSINESS AND SUCCEED> EDUCATION IS THE KEY. INFILTRATE FROM THE TOP.

    Posted by changoman at May 19, 2004 04:06 AM
    feckluis sanchez or who ever the hell you are.
    If we don't speak up and defend our selves from racists and sellouts like you, you'll just keep on putting us down, discriminating and using us as scapegoats. So take those five questions and shove them where the sun don't shine you ****in
    sellout racist.

    Posted by friscomex at May 19, 2004 04:18 AM
    I am out of here. This is so stupid. I thought the purpose was to discuss immigration reform. I didn't know it was a dumping ground for people to let out all their complaints and gripes about discrimination, racism, etc. I DON'T THINK ANYONE HERE IS PREPARED TO ENGAGE IN A MEANINGFUL DISCUSSION ON IMMIGRATION POLICY AND REFORM.

    Posted by abby at May 19, 2004 12:27 PM
    I have read all this small bits of each and everyones mind and how they feel about this subject of the movie " A day without a Mexican".
    Its funny to see how many of this people are feeling like "illegals" are the enemy.. " oh they take jobs away" " oh they use our medical facilyties" all i have read is complain after complain. I havent hear no one giving a real good point on how or why the goverment keeps on letting "illegals" or so u called them like that, keep commin in. Tell me why doesnt the USA tell the cubans u know what u came here now u got to go back. Its different then since they are afraid of going back to cuba cuz they get killed. fine. i can understand that, and no im not hating on them, i say this cuz i have hear cubans come and talk bad about USA and they are born here and they are american. now u tell me what makes then n e better then illegals? Yes alot of people come here from Mexico. I did and i am not afraid of sayig i came as and illegal and i am trying to fix my status here. I do pay taxes. I follow the laws u have here in USA. I live in California and i see alot of people that are born here in USA, and they spend their time in a gang or doing some stupid **** with their lifes. How come American borns dont try and make somethign out them self. I tell u why cuz USA has made them weak. I have never seen an American in a sweat shot i havent seen an American clean a toilet. I havent seen and American do a day of work in the fiels strawberry picking i havent seen and American do manual lavor. I feel sorry for American borns talk bad about illegals and stuff with that issue. All u do is complain. Why dont u do something about it? Do something possitibe. Im not perfect i have been paying dues. I havent been in any gang related issues. I have focus my life in my education. But if u really think about it American came to this land and u didnt ask for it u took the land. Indians were here before you. Americans are in a way invating in their own land. I belive california and some other state as far as Texas was mexico and it still is. I stand that we can all come to a point where all can be happy we all need to do is communicate. Communication if the first step of resolving this proble is u think it is. All people that have come here i bet have never work out in the corn fiels and havent done n e hard work with their hands? maybe im wrong but the way u talk give me that point of view. If you feel like u want to get my attention and telling me something i am not scared to hear you out.. this is my email ( x_ecuti0ner_style@yahoo.com,) screen name over at yahoo. ( x_ecuti0ner_style ) aim ( roscografxs ) if u want to say something to me get at me in does ways. yall have a good day.

    Posted by Eric at May 20, 2004 12:38 AM
    Abby,
    I agree with you 100%. THis is nothing more than a chaotic circus act.

    Posted by changoman at May 20, 2004 01:50 AM
    The movie shows what happens when American citizens don't want to see a movie. This movie bombed at the box office. We are told that the economic force of illegal aliens is mighty. Yet when the American citizens demonstrate their economic choices, this movie didn't even make it into the top 50 movies when it opened. I'll never see it.

    Posted by Ann Olson at May 20, 2004 09:41 AM
    I feel more American then most Americans feel about themselves. I'm a Mexican. The very idea of freedom of speech and open discussion allows me the opportunity to make my ideas be heard. My life has been a great ride because I have been a Mexican student in Mexico and a Mexican student in the United States.
    I have been a university student and eventhough when my family came to the U.S. I didn't speak English, I got a double major: History and English. There is so much to learn out there, but we must first learn the language, get an education and I don't mean just a high school diploma I mean a university BA, MA, or PhD. Nobody has ever built their dream home from laboring in the fields or holding some menial job. So move out of the fields and relocate your self in a classroom where you or your children can begin to built your American Dream.
    There's plenty of dissention:STOP. Look around you. There are people out there who are feeding us all this garbage: racism & discrimination. We Mexicans should be more attentive to what is being published "Who Are We" by Samuel P. Huntington just out this week in hardback. Read it. This is my challange to all the Mexicans. Read the book first and the we can have a real discussion about Mexicans and Anglos.
    We don't need to justify ourselves to anyone. We are a proud people with a rich past. Let's build on that and make our children benefit from the struggle we are currently facing.
    Nativism is on the rise. All the people who are fooled by what is being discussed on the forum should really consider looking at the BIGGER picture. Are WE in it or Are WE the frame?

    Posted by Carlos Valtierra at May 20, 2004 10:45 AM
    I think this movie is giving Americans a great insight on what Mexicans, and even all latinos do. People can be so misguided. That bit about illegal aliens not paying taxes is bull****. Their papers may not be real, but they are still paying taxes under that name. And you know what? They don't see a dime of it back. Countless "illegal aliens" are in the United States Military, and when they are killed in action, the government refuses to help pay for thier funeral. How is it possible for them to be accepted to die for this country, but not to be accepted as a key role in America today? I am a legal U.S. citizen and a soldier in the Army. I am glad to serve this country, because it is the land of opportunity. It is also as it says, "The Land of the free and the home of the brave." It takes a hell of a lot for someone to sacrifice as much as those people who come trying to better themselves and their families than most people know. Please don't look down on us. We only want to be treated with kindness and respect, as would any other race. We may be different colors on the outside, but on the inside, we all bleed the same. I hope this movie shows our role in the way that it REALLY is, not the typical stereo-type.

    Posted by Jessica Rangel at May 20, 2004 12:41 PM
    1. Do you really think the southwest would be better off if was part of Mexico? We'll never know my friend.

    2. Do you think that an overabundance of workers (excess supply) drives down wages? No.

    3. Who do you think treats illegal immigrants better, the US or Mexico? (remember, Mexico gets illegal immigration from El Salvador, Guatemala, etc). Neither.

    4. Does Mexico have affirmative action for "underrepresented groups" like full blooded indians and blacks? Not that I know.

    5. Would you rather live in Mexico or the US?
    I would rather live in a place where people respect eachother. A place where I will not be discriminated or looked down on because of the color of my skin, my accent, my ethnicity, etc. Unfortunately that place does not exist!

    Posted by at May 20, 2004 02:27 PM
    anonymous writes:

    "1. Do you really think the southwest would be better off if was part of Mexico? We'll never know my friend."

    Response: Come on, just answer the question. Based on where the US is NOW and where Mexico is NOW, who do you think does a better job in guiding an economy? I know, many bleeding heart liberals and non-whites like to think that all wealth in the hands of whites was because of slave labor, etc etc etc. Hello!!!! Switzerland never had slaves. Sweden never had slaves. Canada never had slaves. Norway never had slaves..... Why are all of these countries successful???? Is some bleeding heart gonna come on here and say those countries got wealthy by "oppressing" non-whites? Yeah right! Mexico is a craphole because of it's culture and because of the character of it's people. Period!!! No excuses please. I love how Mexicans think that Mexico would be some wealthy, global powerhouse if they had just had the southwest US. Hahahaha. What a joke. Mexico would still be a craphole.

    "2. Do you think that an overabundance of workers (excess supply) drives down wages? No."

    Response: You are ignorant then. I suggest you take an entry level course in economics. It is undeniable that an overabundance of workers drives down wages. Again, you are either ignorant, or in denial.


    "3. Who do you think treats illegal immigrants better, the US or Mexico? (remember, Mexico gets illegal immigration from El Salvador, Guatemala, etc). Neither."


    Response: Try again. Mexico jails and then deports illegals when they are caught. Yet Mexicans cry like stuck pigs when they illegally come to the US and are denied in state college tuition, drivers licenses, etc. I say we should be more like Mexico, and treat illegals the way Mexico does.


    "4. Does Mexico have affirmative action for "underrepresented groups" like full blooded indians and blacks? Not that I know."

    Response: They don't! Try doing some research before you spout off.

    "5. Would you rather live in Mexico or the US?
    I would rather live in a place where people respect eachother. A place where I will not be discriminated or looked down on because of the color of my skin, my accent, my ethnicity, etc. Unfortunately that place does not exist! "

    Response: Obviously, you are here now! If you don't like it, you are FREE to leave.

    Posted by feckLuisSanchez at May 20, 2004 09:15 PM
    ATT: FECKLUIS SANCHEZ
    here are some answers.
    1.The southwest wouldn't be better of if it was
    MEXICO. Because the Mexican government is so corrupt, they steal and they discriminate against
    poor Mexicans just like yourself.
    2.Yes it's true, but that's only because your beloved rich white man would rather pay an undocumented Mexican less money than pay a U.S. citizen more money so he can have more money. And don't forget the U.S.lets undocumented Mexicans
    cross the border to do the jobs people as yourself won't do. Who do you think is gonna pick the veggetables you eat, is it the white *** in the street corner or is it an educated racist like you gonna do it.
    3.The U.S. treats the undocumented better or they'll get sued, and remember the Mexican government is corrupt and racist like you. And
    don't compare the Mexican government with the average mexican or the culture, you probably don't know what culture is because you don't have one.
    4.Don't forget what I said about the Mexican government.And the only reason why there's affirmative action here is because racist pigs like yourself won't give non-white people equal opportunities.
    5.I rather live here because I grew up here,
    because all my family is here and some of it goes back to many generations and they fought for this country in the military so your ungrateful *** could be free.
    I also love this country because of it's diversity. And I do like white people because fortunately not all of them are like you.
    And yes the white man did benefit from slave labor or are you in denial. And don't compare Sweeden or Norway to the U.S., this is a much richer country and more powerful than those two combined.
    So next time you eat veggetables remember who picked them. And if you have so much hatred towards Mexicans why are you going by the name of feckluis sanchez are'nt you worried ignorant racists might confuse you with a Mexican even though not only Mexicans have spanish names.
    Or is it that your a coward and you don't wanna show your real name.
    So be afraid racist pig, be very afraid because Mexicans are here to stay and more and more are crossing the border right now and some are arriving legally. And we are coming up in this country. We're everywhere, maybe you should move to where there's no Mexicans like Norway or Sweeden.

    Posted by FRISCOMEX at May 21, 2004 02:30 AM
    ABBY

    IT IS SAD TO SEE THERE IS NO PROGRESS IN THIS DIALOGUE. WE HAVE TO MANY DOGMATIC PEOPLE. IF I DO NOT HERE ANY ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION OUT THERE I WILL HAVE TO DROP OUT AS WELL.

    I WOULD RATHER SPEND MY TIME WITH COMMON SENSE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE LOOKING FOR ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS RATHER THAN WASTE MY TIME WITH SO CALL EDUCATED INDIVIDUALS TRYING TO JUSTIFY THEIR RHETORIC.


    Posted by TOM at May 21, 2004 07:57 PM
    FECK IS NOT A RACIST AS SO MANY OF YOU CLAIM HIM TO BE. hE IS JUST ASKING SIMPLE QUESTIONS DEMANDING TO BE ANSWERED, BUT EVERYODY JUST GIVES THE DUDE BACK TALK AND WON'T EVEN ANSWER HIS QUESTIONS. THE ONLY REASON WHY THE US IS SUPERIOR TO MEXICO IS BECAUSE OF THE US CONSTITUTION. WHENEVER THERE IS INJUSTICE IN THIS COUNTRY, WRONGED PEOPLE ALWAYS TURN TO THE ENSHRINED WORDS OF THE CONSTITUTION WHICH EVENTUALLY MAKES US A FREER SOCIETY. MEXICO HAS NO SUCH DOCUMENT WHICH ALWAYS RESULTS IN THE OLIGARCHS CONTROLLING ALL ASPECTS OF MEXICAN LIFE. I AM APPALLED AT ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO SAY HOW ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE SUCH A BENEFIT TO OUR COUNTRY! THE MOVIE NEEDS TO POINT OUT HOW MUCH CHEAPER IT MIGHT BE TO LIVE IN CALI IF TAXPAYERS WEREN'T ALWAYS FORKING OUT TAX DOLLARS TO PAY FOR ALL OF THE SERVICES THAT THE ILLEGALS USE. THEY PAY VERY LITTLE, LET'S BE HONEST. THE LAWN PEOPLE GET PAID IN CASH. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THEY DECLARE THEIR WAGES? I'M TIRED OF AMERICANS OF MEXICAN DESCENT REFERRING TO THEMSELVES AS "MEXICANS". WE ARE AMERICANS WITH A MEXICAN IDENTITY, BUT SHOULDN'T BE LUMPED IN WITH THE ILLEGALS. WHENEVER THE IGNORANT WHITIES ASK "WHAT NATIONALITY ARE YOU?", WE SHOULD PROUDLY REFER TO OURSELVES AS "AMERICANS". THIS WOULD SURELY BAFFLE THEM AS THEY SEE THEMSELVES AS THE ONLY "TRUE" AMERICANS. BUT I FEEL THAT OUR DISCRIMINATED ANTECEDENTS PAID THE HIDEOUS PRICE FOR THE RIGHT TO BE CALLED AMERICANS, AND NOT CITIZENS OF THAT ****HOLE COUNTRY TO THE SOUTH, FOR IT IS DOOMED BY THE RACIST CRIOLLOS THAT RUN THE SHOW DOWN THERE. LET'S BE HONEST. IF YOU AS A 3RD,4TH OR 5TH GENERATION MEXICAN AMERICAN WERE TO GO LIVE THERE, DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT YOU WOULD BE ACCEPTED MUCH LESS REAP ALL OF THE FREE SERVICES THAT THE WETBACKS GET OVER HERE? BE THANKFUL THAT YOU LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY (RELATIVELY FREE AT LEAST) AND THAT WE HAVE A CONSTITUTION TO PROTECT OUR RIGHTS NO MATTER WHAT WHITEY THINKS. MOST OF ALL DEMAND TO BE CALLED "AMERICAN". THIS WILL DRIVE WHITIE CRAZY!

    Posted by ERIC at May 21, 2004 09:32 PM
    Ann Olson,
    this movie wasnt made to be a box office hit. It was made to make a point. Of course you wouldnt see it because you think its obsurd to picture a California without Mexicans. Right? The movie is just meant to put a thought in your head and make you wonder "What if?" I can almost guarantee that we wont see this happening in our lifetime but makes some people put things into perspective.


    Posted by Mary at May 23, 2004 04:48 PM
    Hello...mary i totally agree with u..this movie was made to make a point...however,i wish the point was little bit different...The whole point of this movie is to say "look how gringos really need us" and " stay there doing all these jobs" instead of something like " look mexican how hard workers you are, you can get educated and have a greater impact in this country"...I just did not like this movie because i feel like the message is stay in ur knees because they need us like this.....

    Posted by Lilian at May 23, 2004 08:38 PM
    ..AGAIN I SAY READ SOME HISTORY AND YOU WILL SEE
    THAT MEXICO GOT SOLD OUT TO EUROPEANS A LONG
    TIME AGO. IS MEXICO CORRUPT...YEAH...BUT LOOK WHO'S BEEN IN CHARGE FOR THE LAST 400 YEARS.
    IT WAS TAKEN OVER BY SPANIARDS, FRENCH, GERMANS,
    IRISH, BELGIANS, ITALIANS ETC.
    I HAVE BEEN TO THE COASTAL RESORT TOWNS AND CITIES ON BOTH SIDES AS WELL AS THE INTERIOR.
    THE LIVELYHOOD OF THE NATIVE MEXICAN IS LONG
    GONE...IT IS NOW HOTELS, DISCOS, CRUISE PORTS OF CALL,CHAIN STORES....CHAIN RESTAURANTS BLAH
    BLAH BLAH..MEXICO IS AS CORRUPT AS THOSE WHO
    CONTINUE TO INVADE IT.
    ...AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE
    REAL NATIVE..

    Posted by Flo at May 24, 2004 11:37 AM
    CONT:...NATIVE OF MEXICO

    Posted by Flo at May 24, 2004 11:39 AM
    Stop! This B.S. act like reasonable humans. We all need each other. The Mexican needs Whites. Whites Need the Mexican. Ok!!!!!!!!

    Can't you see it.

    Without them Mexicans would not be the same. Vice versa.

    This movie would not exist if it was not for Whites.

    And all of you stop talking about Capitalist Mexico, which was indeed created and is controlled by Europeans.

    Cancun and Puerto Vallarta are the worst of beaches.

    You know why?
    Because it is a tourist area.

    In Mexico tourists are never going to be treated good as Mexicans are. Why Because you tourist do not care about us.

    Thats why.


    If you cared a bit about the culture and at least tried to speak Spanish then you will be respected.

    **** its all logic.

    ..........Think...

    you know how many Cal Republicans I hear all the time saying the same **** !!!!!!!!!! Many.

    They can't think for some reason.

    Go to Veracruz or Yucatan if you want a real beach.


    And you know what before Europeans came indigenous people did not have so much hatred in their hearts.

    We did not even know about racism until the White man came to America.

    And you so called "Americans."

    Stop it.

    You aren't. and you know why because most of you have never have shown heart and love for this country or its brothers (Latin America and Canada).

    So you are not trully an American.

    Find another name for this country.

    You do not deserve the name American. OK.

    When you get to that point then call yourself an American.

    And Mexicans are more Americans than Whites technically speaking. We have been here longer and have fought longer for this continent[America]. More Mexicans have died for this land so please stop trying to put us down.

    we learned to be corrupt, racist, alcoholics, etc. from Europeans. So please stop putting yourself down and have some dignity.

    I barely was admitted at UC Berkeley. Because racists ****s always keep us down. And no its not that we do not try hard enough to make it in school.

    It's about U.S. Americans not giving us our rights as humans.

    We always are obtaining their scraps and a sub-standard education along with them.

    Most Mexicans and other Latinos although we compose about 40% of California are not treated accordingly.

    Mexicans in college are always look down in college.

    It ****s.

    We get racism out of college but in college we get even more.

    But I do not care the U.S. Constitution protects us.

    I love it.

    Looking at Mexico's natural resources. Yes, it can become a great succesful country. Latin America can be the greatest power but racist ****s always have to exploit us.

    Get out ****s and you will see great changes.

    Look at Argentina: perdomintaly White. It's the Latin American nation that is in the worst state currenlty.

    Why?

    Because wealthy ****s take everything.

    The U.S. and other European countries always abuse our beautiful nations.

    Taking all the wealth like the Spanish Conquistadores did back to Europe, figuratively speaking.


    If U.S. corporations live Latin America it will be just fine and better economically.

    The U.S. is like a Vampire, but instead of ****ing blood its ****ing oil like in the Middle East, esp, Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Stop it alright!!!!!!!!1

    We can barely hang and you coming in ****s us up even worst and thus we have to immigrate to your supposed owned nation "U.S."

    Mexicans migration is incresed once corporations invade.

    Read. Get Educated homies.

    Live in rural Mexico and you'll learn that being Mexican is actually being human. a peaceful happy one that is.

    We are one of the few nations in the world were people actually come and visit because they want to. Not because they need to in order to make enough money to survive. That is as Mexicans come to the U.S. to become economically superior but it turns out to many of us that we were better in Mexican or other Latin AMerican nations.

    We can speak Spanish, dance to banda, merengue, salsa, etc. in Latin America.

    Another thing do not try to say that Mexicans treat indegenous and other minorities bad because its not Mexicans its mostly the White ****s running the Government.


    Most Latin American governments were put there by the U.S.

    remember most Mexican Presidents went to Harvard.

    So they actually know how to run the nation but they are greedy like you.

    Individual.

    It was until I got to the U.S. that I learned to be an individual in my small pueblo in Mexico I was always treated as a real human being with love.

    This is the only nation that has all the hatred of the world fools.

    Think.

    Watch "Bowling for Columbine" maybe that will help you.

    Marry a Mexican and lets see how your people will react to your act.

    have brown kids with Spanish surnames then tell me what it means to be Mexican.

    More importantly ask your 1/2 Mexican kids.

    A Mexican is not only a Meztizo
    but also really someone who loves the culture and loves his brothers and sisters.

    Thats a true Mexican its all about human kindness fools.

    Live in rural Mexico without your credit cards or American money. Without your desk job. Work in the fields and then tell me how it feels to be liberated of those chains that these country keeps you in.

    I feel Mexican you'll say.


    I bet or "Human really"

    Mexico has Blacks and you know what we love our black brothers.

    Even my black friends have told me that Mexico is so much better. Why?

    Because they are not discriminated nor put down as much.

    Love your brother and thank your mother that you are here.

    peace and love to you all,

    and stop labeling people, we are one[humans] ok.

    Unless some of you ****s are animals. Very smart animals capable of typing and thinking and speaking, you know the rest.


    "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives."- Jackie Robinson


    Con amor y respeto,

    Luis E. Sanchez
    Uc Berkeley Undergrad for life
    "Unity creates Power"


    Posted by Luis E. Sanchez at May 25, 2004 04:35 AM

    Leave a comment:


  • Epiclaughter
    replied
    There are so many ignorant people out there hating on us, I don't know what their problem is. But I do know that Mexicans (as well as all Hispanics) are hardworkers who have what they have because of their strenght to do so. One day they'll see that we're worth so much more what they think. Those who cross the border are so courageous in risking their lives to help their families. Thanks to our parents we have the opportunity to be educated and speak out and prove those ignorant wrong. A teacher has told me it is rare to see hispanic students in honors classes and here where I am I see it. I'm one in two mexicans in my classes that have thirty kids. And I'm gonna make something of it to prove them wrong. We don't just work in fields, there are so many of us who are what they consider "successful", but don't get recognized.
    It's really awesome to see our people here trying to make better but sad to see discrimination out of pure ignorance. You know what I hope to see too? Us getting our education and major then going back to Mexico and help out and improve it there, make it as strong as the US. Because like someone here said it is a beautiful country that has everything.
    (sorry if I ran off)

    Posted by Mexicangrl at May 17, 2004 03:04 PM
    mexicangrl says:

    "But I do know that Mexicans (as well as all Hispanics) are hardworkers"

    Oh, is that right?? ALL Hispanics are hardworkers? Is that any less of a stereotype than saying "all Jews are cheap", or "all whites are rich".

    What a load of **** mexicangrl. I have never met such a self-congratulating race of people in my life. Let a Mexican wash dishes and they will end up telling you that the world would not function without their efforts. What a bunch of arrogant, self-important, braggarts.

    Posted by feckLuisSanchez at May 17, 2004 05:22 PM
    I am starting to become concerned about the spelling, grammar, sentence structure, and general writing skills of those writing the opinions expressed here. I don't want to knock anybody but it seems really obvious that our schools are failing us. If honors students and college graduates are writing at this level, we are doomed.

    Posted by at May 17, 2004 05:52 PM
    oscar,
    I applaud you that you are going to college and that you have good computer and writing skills. Are you paying in-state tuition, out of state tuition or international tuition? If you're paying less than international tuition rates, I'd say that you are a drain on our economy by taking away tax dollars that should go to american born citizens.

    Posted by eric at May 17, 2004 06:14 PM
    I am sorry that you fell this way.
    I apologize if the truth offends you but its true. I cannot erase the truth. However, I do respect your opinion. Because without it I cannot prove myslef to this world.
    That is because I need challenges to overcome.


    For your info: Joe "American."

    A true American would not use the word "Ignorant" to put another person down.
    But I guess you do not believe in the true principles and ethics of the word "liberty."


    Affirmative Action does not exist in California.
    It was banned in the 90s.
    Michigan does have Affirmative Action.

    Segregation still exists read.
    Even the SF Chronicle now acknowledges the fact that Brown v. Board of Ed did not do anything to desegregate public schools.

    I went to a low performing school in the Mission and I am still doing better in UC Berkeley than a student who went to Lowell.

    Also better than students from Orange county and LA.


    Currently, I have a 3.33 GPA at UC Berkeley.

    How can you explain the fact that my Mexican American friend who does not even speak Spanish at all, failed his college writing class at UC Berkeley. That is while an asian passed and can barely speak English or write it. Some of my asian friends passed but I do not even understand their writing.

    Their sentences are very confusing and grammatically incorrect.

    I see this currently happening in the CA University system. How do you think I feel when whites and asians ignore me because of my skin color?

    How do you think I feel when the police does not do anything to solve my case but just write a report?

    How do you think I feel when at a restaurant or store I am told to leave?

    How do you think I feel when someone like your self tells me that I do not deserve to be at CAL?

    Currently, at Cal I have been working with Boalt school of Law and you know what they think? They think that if I keep it up and **** it up and don't quit that I will get very far.


    Far as in achieving a high degree of education.

    I would want to see you graduate from Cal and get a Ph.D and write books to encourage your people.

    Well, that's what I am going to do and I will not stop there.

    How many people have you helped gain their self esteem?

    Right! You just tried to put me down.

    It did not work!!!!

    I dealt with people like yourself throughout my life and found out that your inside is empty.

    I find no Heart!

    You throw out 60 yr stereotypes.

    You Plaigiariser!

    Wheres your original work. It seems as if you really can't think. At least your email is telling me this.

    you generalize too much.

    Thus, you steal others arguments. That is since you did not "cite" the tons of Republicans and few dems that perpetuated all the stereotypes you mentioned.


    How can you even argue, if you do not even speak for yourself.

    Come on you are human right! Then use the analytical skills that you have for good.

    Stop making remarks! Stop perpetuating the lack of knowledge that some Whites have.


    and about Mexicans not emphasizing education:

    you are wrong.

    That is because I bet there isn't anybody brighter than Mexicans, other Latinos, AFrican Americans, and other poor Ethnic groups (inculding poor Whites) in the U.S.

    We are capable of surviving by barely making ends meet.

    Can you live with 17,000 annually in a family of 8?

    If you can congrats.


    We are tired of learning eurocentric ideals and history.

    That is why many of us do not like U.S. public schools.

    Let us learn our history and culture.

    Plus we cannot afford expensive Univeristies.



    I currently have a full scholarship at UC Berkeley.

    You see.

    Many Latinos are at community colleges and CSU's. (17-30% or so)

    But not in the UC's were like 10 or less.


    Many college students of middle class and upper class background would not be able to survive in the inner city with just a few dollars.


    And for Capitalism:

    Read: Karl Marx's book and learn.


    About Latin American governments

    Most Mexican Presidents have graduated from Ivy league Universities such as Harvard.

    Don't you think this is funny. How can the country be so screwed up. Maybe they are sell outs to the U.S. gov


    Are you aware of what is going on in Afghanistan and Iraq?

    Did you know that the U.S. is planting and maintaining oppium in Afghanistan.

    Oppium is Afghanistans greatest economic interest.

    What about the U.S. War on Drugs?

    The gov. has not done anything to stop drug traffiking.


    There are so many drugs that are easily accessed.


    Sorry, about generalizing about the U.S.. I meant to speak about California.

    Because the reality is that the gov. has the ability of educating its people but it rather builds prisons and imprisons them.

    In the past decade there has been more prisons built than schools.



    So on what side are you on?



    Are you ready to fulfill America's promise.

    "No Child Left Behind"


    Why does the rest of world dislike the U.S.?

    Good question. Think. "A mind is a terrible thing to waste"

    "Where's our Country"-Michael Moore

    Bowling for Columbine.

    Now, there is a man I give credit to.


    Peace,

    Luis E. Sanchez
    UC Berkeley
    Undergrad
    "The Golden Rule:"
    "Treat others like you want to be treated"

    Read and educate yourself.
    Put some Heart into your writing.



    "A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives"
    -Jackie Robinson



    Posted by Luis E. Sanchez at May 17, 2004 06:36 PM
    for all you haters out there, Mexicans are here to stay, like it or not.

    We have much deeper roots in these lands than all of you, so stop whining!!!

    Compatriotas no les hagan caso a estos gringos they don't know any better.

    Posted by Adelita at May 17, 2004 06:56 PM
    Are we really going to solve any problems with a "who has deeper roots in this land (Mexicans or white people) contest"? Does it matter who has deeper roots? Isn't racism and social injustice what we are trying to eradicate? For all you white people who are racist towards Latinos, I have no respect for you. And guess what!!!! Hey all you Latinos who are throwing the racist comments right back, I have no respect for you either.

    People, realize that Latinos are here. Some are documented and legal, some are not. Either way, they are a fast-growing population and are not going away.

    Latinos, educate yourselves!!!! Don't live up to the stereotypes, do something to change them!!!!

    It is cool to remember and honor your culture, but you are in the U.S.! It makes me mad to read comments about reading and learning "our" language, history, and culture. We all live in the same nation and share a national identity- we are Americans, our national language is English. We should learn English and American history and learn about American government in school BECAUSE WE LIVE IN AMERICA!!!!

    That's not to say that we shouldn't learn about other cultures too or study other languages. To receive an education is a privilege. DON'T USE EDUCATION TO BUILD A WALL AROUND YOURSELVES. You are living in the U.S. so learn its language, learn about its history, learn about its government- make an effort!!!! You don't have to forget your past. A lot of us have parents who are immigrants but we still think of ourselves as AMERICANS.

    It just saddens me to read these ethnocentric comments (meaning those comments that seem to put down anyone or anything that isn't Mexican). I feel bad for those people who really want to be in the U.S. but unfortunately are represented by a bunch of haters. THIS IS NOT MEXICO. THIS IS NOT CHINA. THIS IS NOT ENGLAND. THIS IS NOT GERMANY. THIS IS NOT ANY PLACE BUT THE U.S. SO LET'S TRY TO EMBRACE IT!

    Posted by abby at May 17, 2004 07:46 PM
    We forget who california, texas, and arizonas true Native Americans were, Mexicans. We are a native people who have been rapped and robbed of our heritage and name by white society. We find ourselves looking for this so called foriegn American dream working backbreaking work for below minimum wage. Doing the jobs that many whites would shun and consider " a mexicans job". We live in slums along the borders, working for big businesses who love to exploit us. Our women are used as sexual stereotypes in your hollywood, our mothers watch your anglo children then return home to raise there own in substandard housing and send our children to substandard schools. You exploit us for the very dollar we spend on your goods! Yet still we advance! Sending our youth to college, becoming doctors, lawyers, police, teachers! This is what they fear! Not the fact that we crowd our own impoverished schools and clinics! We are soon to be the majority, no longer minorities! We are natives in this country filled with Eruopean immigrants! We cross no border, but try our hardest to survive in this, Old Mexico! Survive against the gready, selfish society that sees the need to exploit the poor, ravish our natural resources, drive polluting SUV's, spead disease, promote violence and wars! Remember, we didn't cross the border, the border crossed us!

    Posted by lisa at May 17, 2004 08:30 PM
    LETS STOP PLANNING THE BLAME GAME AND THINK OF SOLUTION TO HELP ILLEGALS BECOME LEGALIZED.

    AS I STATED EARLIER, I AM LATINO. I BEEN ACTIVE IN MY COMMUNTIY NOT FIGHTING THE SYSTEM BUT EDUCATING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATES ABOUT THE SYSTEM. WE HAVE HAD IMMIGRANT RIGHTS WORKSHOPS, HAD WORKSHOPS FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS TO OBTAIN THEIR GREEN CARD, AND OBTANING A HIGH SCHOOL DIPOLMA.

    TODAY, I AM IN A HIGH SCHOOL DOING A STUDY ON LATINO ADOLESCENTS AND ACCULTURATION. MY CONCERN IS TO STOP THE HIGH DROP OUT RATE OF LATINOS.

    YOU COULD ARGUE ALL YOU WANT. AS FOR ME I DON'T HAVE TIME TO ARGUE, I AM TO BUSY WITH MY COMMUNITY TO EDUCATE AND COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS.

    Posted by TOM at May 17, 2004 09:11 PM
    I JUST WANT TO APOLOGIZE ABOUT MY WRITTING SKILLS. HOWEVER, IF I CAN GET MY CONCEPT OUT THERE I KNOW PEOPLE ARE EDUATED ENOUGH TO MAKE SENSE OF IT.


    Posted by TOM at May 17, 2004 09:16 PM
    Has everyone forgotten that Mexico was colonized by the Spanish before any Anglos ever had anything to do with the southwestern U.S.? There was only a very brief period of time between when the Mexicans won their independence from Spain before they sold their land to the U.S.

    Aside, from that, what I am hearing in a lot of the postings is that this whole conflict has everything to do with wealth and poverty, a class struggle: people with little or no money hating those with money. Guess what? These sentiments are not specific to Latinos. Poor white people resent and hate wealthy white people. Poor Mexicans resent and hate wealthy Mexicans. It is human nature to have disdain for the people who have what you want.

    Further, I applaud all Americans, including Latino-Americans, who are hard workers and are trying to educate their children so they can live better lives. But, guess what? Latinos are not the only immigrants who have ever come to America and worked hard. Latinos are not the only people who have been discriminated against. My own parents and grandparents left communist countries and came here without any money, without speaking English, and without any friends or family. My grandmothers worked in factories, alongside my grandfathers,- they did not have the luxury of staying home. They sent their kids to school and made them work hard so they could become doctors and lawyers.

    I am not asking for special sympathy or recognition. I just think that a lot of people have overcome conditions that seemed insurmountable. We can all do it if we try hard enough. We are our own oppressors.

    Finally, I must say that I do not agree with this idea that white people and the American government fear the rising power of Latinos and use the so-called fiction of overcrowded, impoverished schools as a scapegoat. I really think that the government is concerned about impoverishment: not having enough resources to provide adequate education, roads, sewers, clean water, police/fire/safety and public assistance, in the form of healthcare and food to the truly destitute, to the legal citizens of this country. No government does or could ever purport to guarantee these benefits to people illegally wihtin its borders. It is a tough choice to make and one that is not made easily, but this truly is not land of endless resources. It only makes sense that the government wants to provide for the people who obey its laws.

    Posted by abby at May 17, 2004 09:30 PM
    Keep up the good work Tom!!!!!

    Posted by abby at May 17, 2004 09:31 PM
    I understand how the topic of illegal immigration can trigger extreme responses, but many of your arguments are destroyed by irrational outbursts (not to mention terrible spelling and usage). Hasn't there been irrefutable proof that the indigenous people of the Americas migrated here from Asia over the previously-frozen Bering Straits? Really, everybody just needs to get over who's on first.
    Can I understand why people come here illegally (from everywhere)?. Of course. Is this unchecked illegal migration going to overload, and subsequently sink, our tax/benefit structure? Of course. Arguing about the superiority of ANY group is an exercise in futility. Everyone is to blame. Stop bragging about who picks whose vegetables, or who invented a calendar, or atomic bombs! Who gives a ****?

    Posted by CG at May 17, 2004 09:47 PM
    In response to Abbys comments:
    "U.S. win the land from Mexico in a war, and didn't Mexico win it from the Spanish in a war, and didn't the Spanish pilfer it from the indigenous peoples? And didn't the indigenous peoples fight over the lands and didn't the indigenous people come from somewhere else, oh I don't know- maybe they migrated from Mesopotomia through the Bering Strait?"
    Dear Abby, I don't mean to be rude, or to insult you for that matter. This just needed to be said. I really don't think you have the insight, nor the right to make such comments. Your comments might make sense for someone looking for a general, simple, yet nevertheless slightly ignorant answer. I assure you it's no panacea for this controversy as you might lead one to believe. To truly understand the impact of this war one must understand, even if only slightly, the Mexican mind set. One must first take into consideration the mixed heritage that comes with being Mexican. As a Mexican, I know that I am Spanish, Indian, and even of those who crossed the bearing straight to come here. I am of all those nationalities, including African, and many more. I share my heritage and traditions from many people. You need to understand that even though we've come from a country of seemingly endless wars and takeovers, there is one huge difference from those wars prior, and the Mexican American war. The prior wars ended with assimilation, they made an attempt to assimilate, (even Indian wars usually ended with the conqueror marring into the defeated leaders family) and it was so successful (especially with the Spanish and Indians) that the majority of Mexicans today are mestizo (of mixed heritage). This was wide spread, not only in a few cases. On the other hand, the Americans, for the most part, had in mind to extinguish the Mexicans all together. They had no desire to assimilate, join, cultures, languages, traditions, they had there own ways of life which they considered superior, even when they were gusts, or squatters in former Mexico. To this day people are still weary of Mexican culture penetrating the "all holy" American culture. The United States may have won the land in war, but it did so in a way that is reminiscent of a police officer beating a confession out of a suspect. But this little explanation is still insufficient in describing how we Mexicans truly feel, how we perceive injustice, and pride, at least that's true for me. I hope know you better understand, even if tinged with ignorance, why some Mexicans are so angry over the American takeover, thank you.


    Posted by magdalena cruz de guadalupe jimenez at May 17, 2004 10:17 PM
    First of all, the United States wouldn't be what it is today w/o illegal immigrants, whether you're Mexican, Chinese, Japanese, Irish, or African etc etc etc. Bottom line is immigrants have made the United States what it is today. If you look back at our countrie's history immigrants shaped the United States.To be quite honest with all of you we're all immigrants to this country, not one of us is a native. Somewhere down your family tree your family immigrated from another country whether they were one of the first colonists on this continent, an African forcefully brought to America on a slave ship, or one of the Mexican's trying to cross as we speak in hopes of a better life. Even the Indians came from Asia as they followed game across the Bering Strait (when it had frozen over) into the North American Continent. So we all need to realize where we came from before we critisize others for hopes of a better life. Somewhere in all of our families our family struggled and worked hard to make this country what it is today and making a good life for their family to come. All I know is I'm glad to be an American and I'm sure as hell even happier that my family came to the United States, otherwise who knows where I would be or what I would be.

    Posted by Someone at May 17, 2004 10:45 PM
    HEY GREAT DEBATE.

    BUT I THANK GOD MY PARENTS WHO CAME TO THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALY DID NOT HAVE THE EDUCATION THAT WE HAVE. SOME TIME AT LEAST IN MY EXPERIENCE IN COLLEGE, WE GET TOO ANALYTICAL AND TOO PHILISOPHICAL BUT NOT PRATICAL.

    I AM SURE GLAD MY PARENTS TOOK THE PRACTICAL APPROACH AND HAD ENOUGH SENSE TO TELL ME TO LIVE LIFE AND HELP ONE OTHER WITH THEIR BASIC NEEDS.

    ABBY WE ARE DEALING WITH THE SOCIOECONOMIC CARD NOT THE RACE CARD.

    IT SO HAPPENS THAT WE BLAME THE WHITE MAN IN THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE MONEY. BUT ARE NOT MEXICANS OPPRESSING MEXICANS IN MEXICO BASED ON SOCIOECONOMICS.

    Posted by TOM at May 17, 2004 11:09 PM
    At least all that Mexican's had to cross was a river or a desert. We didn't have to cross a whole ocean like the rest of you and you call us the "wet backs" I think all of you are the wet backs, none of you are native to this coutry somewhere along the line your family had to have crossed that ocean. I've never heard of a Mexican cross an entire ocean.

    Posted by none of your business at May 17, 2004 11:57 PM
    Putting aside all the discussion about who was here first and who has greater claim to the lands comprising the United States, what does everyone want? I don't think anyone has made that clear yet. Mexican-Americans, realistically, what can be done to make all the wrongs right: greater awareness and deference of the history of Mexican-Americans in our schools, additional efforts to combat discrimination by law enforcement, opening the borders to all who seek entry, etc.? I am not trying to make light of this debate. I really want to hear some ideas so we can discuss potential solutions.

    P.S. Did anyone read that article by Steve Lopez in the LA Times on Sunday on illegal immigrants and Rohrabacher's legislation? I think that you can check it out at www.LAtimes.com/Lopez.

    Posted by abby at May 18, 2004 02:32 PM

    Leave a comment:


  • Epiclaughter
    replied
    oh and one more thing...THOSE LARGE CORPORATIONS
    THAT ARE LEAVING THE U.S. END UP GOING TO PLACES LIKE MEXICO BECAUSE THEY CAN GET TAX BREAKS (NO TAXES). THEY PAY $4.00 A DAY AND THEN RAISE THE RENTS IN TOWN. (SO WE ARE LOSING JOBS TO MEXICAN
    PEOPLE MORE THAN YOU KNOW)WHY DOESN'T ANYONE
    COMPLAIN TO THE CORPORATIONS???DO THEY CARE IF
    AMERICAN PEOPLE WITH EDUCATIONS HAVE BEEN LOSING
    THEIR JOBS IN THE LAST FEW YEARS BECAUSE THEY
    HAVE ABANDONED THE AMERICANS?
    THE MEXICAN PEOPLE HAVE TO GO LIVE OUTSIDE OF
    TOWN WHERE THEY HAVE NO PLUMBING. THEY HAVE TO
    LIVE IN SHACKS. WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH $4.00
    A DAY?

    Posted by Flo at May 15, 2004 10:22 PM
    I just want to say two things:

    1- Keith is just an ignorant idiot who is mad because he has all the benefits an American citizen has but yet an illegal Mexican is driving a better car and living in a better place than him. Get over it.

    2- Mexico is the greatest country in the world.
    It has everything gold, silver, exotic animals, some of the best beaches in the world, petroleum.
    And on top of all of that it has amazing culture. Too bad US has no culture at all they don't even have traditional dishes ohh! Wait they do sloppy joes. Tell me something what are you so proud? You like most Americans are mutts you don't even know where you come from. Mexico might not be a rich country but we are rich in family values. We don't go and stuff our elderly in some nursing home till they die. Even though we struggle we live a happier life because we are better people. I hope you rot of cancer in some nursing home Keith.

    VIVA MEXICO!!!!!!!!!


    Posted by MEXICO#1 at May 15, 2004 10:47 PM
    I said scapegoating is what happened to the Jews in Germany NOT that illegal Mexicans are being involved in genocide.

    Scapegoating is exactly what is occuring with illegal immigrants. If you would understand the various processes of genocide, you would see that scapegoating is at the inception of the process. Being perceived as sub-human is another. Like I said, earlier, educate yourself before stating your ignorant comments.

    Posted by at May 15, 2004 11:23 PM
    You guys who bark so loudly about immigrants being legal or illegal.
    Granted illegal workers come to seek work, break the law by entering undocumented. What about those anglo employers who break the law when hiring illegal workers to increase their bottom line profits? What happens to the employer when INS officials come to a place of work and find illegals? Who prosecutes the employer? Are they fined? Are they put in jail? THEY BROKE THE LAW AS MUCH AS THE WORKERS THEMSELVES !!!!
    But noooooo, We don't want to disturb them. The truth is that our government DOES NOT WANT TO STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION because this would **** up the economy, and by the way, most of illegal workers who get jobs with fake documents and fake social security cards are deducted their taxes with each paycheck, and for fear of being caught, they never apply for tax refunds!!! So who is the winner in this game? You tell me.


    Posted by El mocorrol at May 16, 2004 12:07 AM
    Eric,
    I'm sure u know the difference between a Mexican American and a mojado but do you know how to tell them apart? Cause I dont. How sure are you that none of those people working the fields are legal? I do. Cause I have family members who are legal and do that, only because they havent learned the language or obtained the skills,(sadly). I agree there are way too many illegals in this country that benefit from my taxes. But I see it everyday, working in the medical field, a middle to upper class person carry their medi-cal card while flashing their Mercedes,BMW, etc. car key. And that really pisses me off. These are the people who really cheat the taxpayer. If all of you who complain of illegals hate it so much, why dont you do something about instead of complaining?

    and i dr gramlich agree with mary 100%...

    Posted by Mary at May 16, 2004 01:01 AM
    To clarify the last comment. Dr. Gramlich is my husband and he's a white boy from Germany.

    Posted by Mary at May 16, 2004 01:03 AM
    I JUST GOT BACK FROM WATCHING THE MOVIE ABOUT 5 MINUTES AGO. I GOT TO THE THEATHER EXTRA EARLY SO I CAN OBSERVE THE DEMOGRAPHIC MAKE-UP OF THE POPULATION.

    THIS IS WHAT I OBSERVED. NO AFRCAN AMERICAN, 6 ASIANS, 3 WHITE MALES WITH THEIR LATINA GIRLFRIENS AND THE REST WERE LATINOS.

    THIS MOVIE CAN BE CORRELATED WITH THE MOVIE "PASSION" THE MAJORITY OF CHRSTIANS WATHCED THE MOVIE WHILE OTHER PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITHS CRITIZED IT AND DID NOT WATCH THE MOVIE

    I GUESS THAT OPEN MINDED PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE A RARETY.

    WE NEED TO VIEW THE SIMILARITIES IN PEOPLE AND HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THAT.

    Posted by TOM at May 16, 2004 01:34 AM
    I KNOW THAT AFTER WATCHING THIS MOVIE. WHITE CORPORATE AMERICA CAN REPLACE LATINOS WITH OTHER 3RD WORLD PEOPLE WHO ARE OPPRESSED. FOR EXAMPLE AMERICA TELECOMMUNICATIONS HIRE INDIANS FROM INDIA. CHINA HAS AN ARMY OF PEOPLE THAT WHITE CORPORATE AMERICA WANT TO EXPLOIT.

    Posted by TOM at May 16, 2004 01:48 AM
    Many "illegal" immigrants have in the past and are currently serving the war. The U.S. has promised to give them citizenship if they fight the war. Accept this everyone: illegal immigrants are marginalized and are objectified. They are thus are blamed for the economic troubles in the U.S. although there is no data to support this notion. It is a result of one's biases and stereotypes, and a function of one's inability to critique the media. The media does not tell the truth, it tells a story, so do some research and find substantial evidence that inidicates why the U.S. has economic troubles, I can assure you that immigration is not on the list.

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 03:14 AM
    We CAN NOT say that this land belongs to those who conquered it. That is insensitive & cruel. Have you people not heard of Native Americans!!!! This is their land, but they are seen as invisible (just like other minorities) in many of your eyes. I'd like someone to respond to this and to the true notion that you attacking illegal immigrants is nothing but a scapegoat! Be responsible & know your history.

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 04:06 AM
    After reading so many different comments, I have come to the conclusion that there is a lot of ignorant people out there that like to hate just because they have nothing better to do. My parents came to the United States when I was only 10 yrs old, withouth knowing the language or anything else about this country. My mother started taking ESOL (English as a second language) courses back in 1990, she now has a masters degree in Social Psychology and has a very high position at a local Psych hospital here in TX. I am now 22 yrs old and am only a semester away from obtaining my B.A in Psychology. My point here is that not all the Mexicans are dirty, thiefs, prostitutes or bad people, there's good and there's bad just like in any other race. My parents have worked really hard to provide my two sisters and me with a better life. I am extremely proud of all they have accomplished. Because of Mexicans such as my parents I now have a better future. I am proud to be a Mexican just as I am proud to be an American.
    People, don't hate..be realistic and accept the fact that Mexicans are pretty much everywhere. By giving negative statements you will not fix anything instead you will just degrade yourself as a person.

    Something to think about: Last summer I visited England and France...I learnt being American is not the best thing!!! Many people treated rahter rude only because of my American English... After that sad experience I opted to speak only Spanish and to say I was Mexican...The treatment that I received was fantastic...

    To every American living in this country wheather you're from Europe, Asia,Central or South America or anywhere else let's focus on being people rather than "arrogant americans" as a French woman called me.. lol
    GOD BLESS AMERICA and VIVA MEXICO!

    Posted by David Soto at May 16, 2004 07:48 AM
    DAVID SOTO

    YOU ARE A BREATHE OF FRESH AIR. IT IS ABOUT TIME THAT SOME GOT AWAY FROM US AGAINST THEM MENTALLITY. I JUST WANT TO CONGRATULATE YOU FOR ACADENIC ACHIEVEMENTS.

    I GRADUATED FROM PITZER COLLEGE WITH A PSYCHOLOGY DEGREE IN 1999. I HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR A LAW FIRM EVER SINCE. I ALSO HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH A PROFESSOR FROM UCLA AND PITZER STUDING BICULTURAL CONFLCT AMONG LATINOS.

    AS A LATINO, I BEEN ACTIVE IN MY COMMUNTIY NOT FIGHTING THE SYSTEM BUT EDUCATING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATES ABOUT THE SYSTEM. WE HAVE HAD IMMIGRANT RIGHTS WORKSHOPS, HAD WORKSHOPS FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS TO OBTAIN THEIR GREEN CARD, AND FOR THEM TO EVEN GET A HIGH SCHOOL DIPOLMA.

    IN THE BIBLE IN THE BOOK OF 2 TIMOTHY 2;23 IT STATES "BUT AVOID FOOLISH AND IGNORANT DISPUTES KNOWING THAT THEY GENERATE STRIFE."

    I AM NOT A RELIGIOUS FREAK BUT I HAVE LEARNED THAT WHEN YOU ARE AM IGNORANT PEOPLE YOU HIT THEM WITH LOVE.

    Posted by TOM at May 16, 2004 11:58 AM
    I teach kindergarten in public school, and ESL in adult school at night. 100% of my students are either from Mexico or another country in Central America. Obviously, without students, I would be working in another profession. My life is better because people come here from Mexico. I am a white person who appreciates the contributions made by "Latinos". I hope that everyone realizes that most Americans do not share the racist opinions that some people have expressed in this forum. Please don't judge us based on the outdated notions that a minority of people have. My students are bright, hard working, and are an asset to our nation. My adult students work all day, and then come to class at night to learn English. My Kindergarten pupils can read, write and do math. To be honest with you, I'm sick and tired of all the race hate that goes on between adults. If you were in my Kindergarten class, I'd give you recess detention! The wonderful children in my class don't even know that I'm white. I'm their teacher! So, can we please remember what our parents and teachers have taught us about being nice to each other? We all live here together. No one is leaving, and every group contributes to our great nation. We're in this together, so let's put aside the ancient hatreds, and learn to live together in peace.

    Posted by Ben at May 16, 2004 12:21 PM
    ...unfortunately some Mexican people still need to distinguish themselves from "dirty Mexicans."
    My father was a dirty Mexican because he did hard labor out in the fields. He also managed a
    large Ranch for many years and many times came
    home with dirt rings around his eyes. The Spanish
    word for dirt is "Tierra." It is our MOTHER and
    that which yealds the bounty that we all live off
    of..."Dirt..Tierra is sacred"
    MY FATHER came here in the 40's to fill a void
    when American men went to war. It was our own
    government that welcomed people like my father.
    FYI...if you read history you will also note
    that Mexican Immigrants were drafted into the 1st
    world war. My uncle was one of those.
    I have education and have traveled much in my
    life time and I hate to admit that when in Europe
    I had to speak Spanish to get better service.
    There are so many people in this country that
    haven't been treated right by the conquerors.
    Mexican, Japanese, Africans, Chinese...the list
    goes on. Now unfortunately we have a President
    who is putting some final touches on our bad
    reputation.
    Flo

    Posted by Flo at May 16, 2004 03:37 PM
    TO David & all of the other Latinos who have struggled through oppression & still managed to receive an education, Congratulations! Unfortunately we are still not immune from racism because of the country we live in. I think what the film failed to recognize was that educated Latinos also make the economy work. Being a doctoral student in a psychology program, the stereotypical & racist comments in this forum have driven me to find the subject for my doctoral project & thesis. I am proud to say that I came from a traditional Mexican family & that my father worked in the fields for 12 years.

    I am proud of my culture but I am also proud that I have been learning about many different cultures. There is so much to learn out there and one of the best ways to do it is to educate yourself and immerse yourself in activities within cultures (i.e. through an AME church or an Indian temple). I would also suggest reading books from different cultures.

    For the purpose of this forum, here are some books I know from the Latino culture:

    One Hundred Year of Solitude, by Nobel Prize winner, Gabriel Garcia Marquez

    The Labyrinth of Solititude, by Nobel Prize winner, Octavio Paz

    Selected Poems of Gabriela Mistral, by Nobel Prize winning author Gabriela Mistral


    As for Ben's comment, yes it is true, not all white people are racist and I admire when the majority culture comprehends the struggles of the minority cultures. There are those of us humans who hold PRIVILEGE because we are White or Men or those from upper class or hetereosexual or those who are able bodied (that is we don't have a disability) or all of the above.

    Then there are the oppressed groups such as all ethnic minorities (i.e. Mexican men), women, Jews,
    Native Americans, those with a disability,the poor, and the GLBT populations.
    Also, here is a book that can serve to teach us something about multicultural issues, oppression etc.:

    Readings for Diversity & Social Justice by Adams et.al.

    Have fun!


    Posted by viewer of film at May 16, 2004 03:51 PM
    FLO
    I agree with you! It is quite cruel to say that humans are "dirty"!!! Dirty is an object not a person!!!

    Posted by viewer of film at May 16, 2004 03:54 PM
    Is it racist to expect illegals to undergo legalization and live as citizens in this country? Expecting so is no form of scapegoating. And it is hardly scapegoating to point out the travesty being inflicted on our state hospital systems, education and welfare systems every day. But this both a socio-economic and a human rights issue. The dilemma is that you can't treat the former with the ideals of the latter, which seems to be lost in many of the comments previously made.

    There isn't a single nation on the planet, including Mexico, that doesn't thrive on scapegoating. This isn't a comment about individual intelligence or integrity in any way, but a realistic view of geopolitics. The more power you have, the more you exploit; it is human nature. When we extrapolate from individual moral precepts to collective socio-economic functioning, we can easily confuse the national machinery for racism and other inequites. This stuff has been going on for millenia, and if it were really a matter of individual moral terpitude, then we would have solved it centuries ago. What we criticize as the dysfunctional relationship between national, state and local planning and individual freedoms is a deeply embedded tendency in all ideologies. There are virtuous aspects to many of them, including communism, socialism and capitalism. But each flounders when you expect moral correctness.

    A case in point, which I saw some months ago. A city council has taken decades to relocate poor black and hispanic citizens from a flood zone to areas of town that are free of this seasonal threat. It was a travesty that it took so long, and many have been quick to point out that had the the wealthier part of town suffered this threat action would have been swifter. I agree. But the action taken, or not taken, is driven by fiscal possibilities, where "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." It is, from an individual standpoint, selfish and destructive, but from an urban-economic point-of-view mostly a matter of funding. The rich area of town brings in a thousand-fold more in city revenue, and this alone compels city councils to maintain such an imbalance. But it would be equally wrong to say that most of the coucil members were selfish or mean-spirited. In fact, many are non-whites, but recognize the economic pitfalls in urban planning that appear as cruelty at the individual level.


    Posted by at May 16, 2004 07:54 PM
    And to continue . . . . the comment made by Ben re: his ESL students. I taught ESL too, for several years. I never felt racist toward my students, but at the same time could see the problems being created by illegal immigration, especially in the south. Maybe it seems so much more like racism down here because of white southern history. But it isn't racist to point out some of the very real problems. One such problem was with ESL itself. At the primary and secondary levels, I no longer believe it should even be taught on an ongoing basis. When children are immersed into the english language cirriculum, with only a few years of language classes to facilitate the process, they are in a much better position to transcend the largely lower-socio-economic restraints of their mostly Spanish speaking parents. A problem with this, of course, is that it begins a process of strain between generations, but that much is inevitable if the ensuing generations are going to surpass the limited success of their parents in this country.

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 08:03 PM
    Those of you who trash the U.S. wouldn't be doing so if it didn't give Mexicans an opportunity out of their native plight. We wouldn't even be having these exchanges. Anybody see any illegal immigrant flooding of the Canadian/U.S. border? If your going to criticize the U.S., at least be more than blindly loyal to Mexico.

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 08:09 PM
    And for those that have the stomach to study the data behind the concern with illegals, here's a web link:

    http://www.cis.org/articles/2003/back903coverage.html

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 08:19 PM
    I just posted a new message announcing this compilation of articles:

    http://www.jasonsimms.com/archives/2..._articles.html

    I know the author, Victor Davis Hanson. He is a well-respected author and fellow classicist. His research on this subject is fairly exhaustive. Bottom line: he seems to feel that immigration is destroying the infrastructure of California, but anybody who opens up the topic for discussion is labeled, as he puts is, a "racist."

    Just from the comments on this topic, I can understand what he means...

    Posted by Jason at May 16, 2004 08:56 PM
    Has there been scientific research that has validated the economic effects of immigration with an amount of "concensus"? With reliability & validity taken into account? I don't know but I found this in an article from that website that was just posted:

    Fiscal Effects

    The report does not contain any new research on the fiscal impact of immigration; instead, the chapter on the public sector summarizes the authors' previous study of the issue (Vernez and McCarthy, 1996), which explored the relevant questions and reviewed findings from a number of different studies. As in their earlier work, the authors conclude that there is NO consensus regarding the budgetary consequences of immigration in California, as different studies have produced a wide range of estimates. The reason for the divergent findings stems from a number of factors: In many cases there is no agreement on how to estimate immigrant and native tax revenue and public service use from existing administrative and survey data. There is also a disagreement on whether to count public services, such as welfare, used by the U.S.-born minor children of immigrants as a cost attributable to immigration.

    -------
    Why do you think the INS doesn't deport every illegal immigrant in the U.S? They have the means to do it.

    As for "trashing the U.S," it is not a matter of trashing, it is a matter of REALITY of the prevalence of racism & oppression in the U.S. It is a matter of understanding the social problems that exist.

    Posted by at May 16, 2004 09:19 PM
    I agree that teaching primary and secondary classes in English to students who speak another language is the best way to assimilate them into our society. When I teach ESL to adult students, I rarely use translation as a teaching strategy. The best way to learn English is to speak it. Also, I agree that pointing out problems that may exist in our communities isn't racist. We need to have reasonable dialogues between groups of people to address problems. What I don't agree with are the mean spirited generalizations that some people use to advance their particular agenda. Every group has "good, bad and the ugly". I'm surprised that after all this time we need to keep repeating this statement. It seems that educators need to redouble their efforts to teach the values of tolerance and justice to our students. Then MAYBE, we can take steps to have the kind of society that reflects the values put forth so eloquently in documents such as the Decleration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.

    Posted by Ben at May 16, 2004 10:22 PM
    sa a chicano i'm proud of my mexican history and also proud of the future that me and my future family will have in this country. I don't even worry about ssn because by the time i.m at least 50 that program will be over and not because of us latinos but because of baby boomers, wich white people that means that you.re parent.s are in totall a greater # that what you.re grandparent put into ssn while they wore young. By the way, if all you 20-30 old white guys are worried that you.re dream job can't be fullfield because an immigrant that never finish 3rd grade "stoled" you.re job, please just shut up and do something about it in school. Stop acting like you wish you wore black or latino. Soon, not only would we dominate labor work, but we will also take over all the other jobs. Later,you will be pumping my son.s car.

    Posted by victor at May 17, 2004 04:59 AM
    **** all the sellouts, **** my big mexican ***** you ****en pochitos.

    Posted by pochokiller at May 17, 2004 06:00 AM
    Eric

    You are one stupid mexican-american
    Noone take anybody's job you get what you fight for. i am an illegal alien and were i work the people that work the hardest are the ones that recieve the best money and treatment from their employerrs. And guess what there is not one white person in the store i work in. I think i am the only illegal alien. And they all treat me with respect.

    One more thing i am going to college and the government does not pay a penny for my tution. While my girlfriend a mexican american with the same GPA as me gets two grand a year for school when she only spends about 1,300 a year. Immigrants are not to blame for the US poor economy. Stupid mistakes the government makes are the cause

    Posted by oscar at May 17, 2004 12:21 PM
    In order to better understand and solve the problems associated with immigration and racism, we really need to focus on economic policy and government. The majority of the postings are really caught up in expressing opinions on equality, superiority and inferiority of race and culture, and pointing fingers. Does it really matter who is to blame for our shortcomings if we are not going to examine their cause and find a solution to the problem? Receiving words of validation of one's cultural, ethinic, or racial identity feels great but does not address the problem. Social problems are often driven by economic problems which are most expeditiously cured through changes in government. Like it or not, the government is the machine which controls our destiny as a nation; if you don't like something, become active and seek political change. Please let's stop our *****ing and moaning and realize that placing blame accomplishes nothing without actual change. Let's examine the hard facts; speculation is meaningless until it is substantiated with fact.

    Posted by abby at May 17, 2004 01:29 PM
    LUIS SANCHEZ, SAYS:

    "This Forum is filled with very racist comments."

    Then he goes on to say:

    "America is plain racist and it has always been. Accepted. "(nice generalization there buddy)

    AND...

    "Another thing if you do not like Latinos get out because Whites are a minority here. I hope you are getting your ship ready because in 2050 or so the U.S. s probably going to be as the population growth says" 50% of the U.S. will be probably Latino
    Pack your bags and get on the Mayflower.
    That is back to Europe or else where.
    But not the U.S."(and he bellows about Americans being racist)

    AND...


    "YOU CANNOT LIFE WITHOUT US.

    THUS, SHUT UP.

    OR YOU WILL BE TREATED ACCORDINGLY." (thinly veiled threats to "non-latinos". Again, a racist comment/threat).

    Then LUIS says:

    "And please do not say that Americans do not like undocumented immigrants equally.

    Wake up if you are a certain color, you are going to be treated differently."

    MY RESPONSE: HAHAHAHAHA. This is funny. Listen LUIS, you mestizo ****. Mestizos and criollos back in Mexico treat full blooded Mexican indians like dogs. Admit it. They are treated like second class citizens in Mexico. They get no affirmative action, no "assistance for the underrepresented, etc." If you say they do, then you are a LIAR LUIS!!!!

    Then LUIS says:

    "I am a U.S. born Mexican attending UC Berkeley and I still get the same **** as an UNdocumented Mexican.

    Why do you see so many Asians getting accepted into College? Think!!

    Really this time use your brain!!

    Well, racism duhhh!!!

    Asians are no better than Mexicans
    They just happen to adhere to the U.S. system not American because the U.S really just stole that name from the continent.

    Learn. Go to school and get an education.

    Many educated Mexicans in the University are degraded. And you know why because racist do not like the fact that we are strong people who do not like kissing ***.

    Yes. Thats the reason why you do not see that many Mexicans and other Latinos in the Nation in colleges and Universities."

    MY RESPONSE: The reason you don't see so many Mexicans in college is because they don't emphasize education the way that whites and Asians generally do. Mexicans emphasize breeding like rats, not education. I read a story about a Mexican girl in Oregon recently (15 years old). She had to quit school temporarily to help support her family. Was her family 2 children? Was her family 3 children? Hell no, she had 16 brothers and sisters. Her parents were sacrificing her EDUCATION in order to support the herd of children they had. Asians and whites generally have 2 kids a piece. Thats why they are able to provide for a better future.

    I also read a story about a Korean family that came to America. The mother and father had 2 children. They sacrificed working long hours at menial jobs so their kids could succeed. Eventually, there son attended and graduated from Harvard Medical school with honors. So there you have it. Generally speaking:

    Successful whites and Asians sacrifice for their children to provide for their education and future.

    Mexicans sacrifice their children's future by having too many kids. They don't emphasize education. Why do Mexicans have so many kids??? They do this not to help their kids, but to help themselves. Mexicans breed like rats because they think that if they have many kids, the kids will support them when they get old.

    Listen LUIS, if Mexicans want a better standard of living, start using birth control and emphasizing education. The reason you are in college is most likely because of affirmative action. I would bet my left pinky finger that there was a more qualified white or Asian applicant that didn't get accepted because they needed to make room for your stupid ***. So stop biting the hand that feeds you MORON!!!!


    NOW LUIS BRINGS UP SOME WORN OUT "LA RAZA" PROPOGANDA BULLSHIITE. HE SAYS:

    "bECAUSE REMEMBER YOU ARE THE IMMIGRANT WE WERE ALREADY HERE.

    yOU STOLE OUR LAND NOT US.

    REMEMBER CALI, COLORADO, NEW MEXICO, TEXAS AND PARTS OF UTAH WERE OWNED BY MEXICO AND THE U.S CAME AND STOLE IT. rIGHT YOU REMEMBER NOW.

    MY RESPONSE: LUIS, you are obviously not a history major. First of all, the land was not "stolen". The US PURCHASED the southwest from Mexico. They paid Mexico more for the southwest than they paid to France for the Louisianna Purchase.

    Additionally, Spain STOLE the southwest from the native americans. Spain did not pay one peso to the indians that lived (and still do) in California, Texas, Nevada, New Mexico, etc. When Mexico won it's independence from Spain, it felt it should have "rightful" ownership of the southwest. Well guess what LUIS, Spain, nor Mexico was or were ever the rightful owner of the southwest. The native americans that live there are the rightful owners. If you say that the US "stole" the southwest from Mexico, then I say it was stealing from a thief!!! Mexico (via Spain) stole the land from the indians. And don't try to say that the Aztecs, Maya, etc are the same as the native tribes of the southwest, because they are NOT!!!!

    SECONDLY, there were only 80,000 Mexicans in Texas, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, and Utah when the US PURCHASED the Southwest. Eighty thousand is nothing.

    Mexicans like LUIS make me laugh. They think that the southwest would be better off if it was part of Mexico. Do you really think that LUIS??? Do you really think that the southwest would be some sort of utopia if it was still controlled by Mexico??? I believe it would be a run-down, impoverished, corrupt, craphole just like most of Mexico. Blame the character of your people LUIS, don't blame Americans. What would happen if the US were to sell the southwest back to Mexico??? Well, in fifty years or so, the Mexicans would have screwed the place up so badly, that Mexicans would have to flee again to "white/asian" areas just to find work. Again LUIS, blame the character of your people, not whites or asians.

    NOW LUIS SAYS:

    "DON'T WORRY CAPITALISM WILL COME TO AN END!!!!
    I BET THAT THERE WILL COME THE TIME WHEN YOU WILL BE BEGGING TO A MEXICAN TO STAY BECAUSE YOU CANNOT SURVIVE ALONE.

    THUS, CALIFORNIA MIGHT BE ONE OF THE FEW STATES STANDING WHEN THE U.S. ECONOMY COLLAPSES."


    MY RESPONSE: This is just more propaganda pawned off by the pro-illegal immigration lobby. Dont believe it. Go to Missouri. Check it out. White and black americans clean hotel rooms, mow lawns, wash dishes, act as nannies, etc. All the jobs that the pro-illegal immigration lobby claims Americans won't do. The truth is that Americans don't want to work for slave wages. To a Mexican, $5 per hour is riches. It is like paying an American $40 per hour. Mexicans will gladly work for $5 per hour or less and then live like pigs. They are used to it. Americans would prefer to be paid a fair wage. Big business just wants cheap labor, so they claim that americans won't do these jobs. My grandfather was a migrant farm worker in the midwest - he was white. Americans have always done these jobs, its just that in the past, the wages were better, because there wasn't the flood of excess workers from Mexico driving down wages. It's simple supply and demand. Too many workers= low wages.

    Unfortunately most ignorant Mexicans just don't get it. That's why they continue to breed like rats. Eventually, when their kids grow up, there will be too many workers and not enough jobs. Face it, they are going to create the same situation here that they created in Mexico.

    To any Mexican out there, I have a couple of questions:

    1. Do you really think the southwest would be better off if was part of Mexico?

    2. Do you think that an overabundance of workers (excess supply) drives down wages?

    3. Who do you think treats illegal immigrants better, the US or Mexico? (remember, Mexico gets illegal immigration from El Salvador, Guatemala, etc).

    4. Does Mexico have affirmative action for "underrepresented groups" like full blooded indians and blacks?

    5. Would you rather live in Mexico or the US?

    Posted by FeckLuisSanchez at May 17, 2004 02:03 PM

    Leave a comment:


  • Epiclaughter
    replied
    I also thought that the billboard was offensive because California is made of many immigrants that are Latinos and they do the job other people do not want to do. They work in the field and their are a lot of Americans that would not want to go work in the field. I hope this movie would show the government that California does need
    the MEXICANS and other LATINOS. There are many people that treat them bad just because they come to the United States. They do not come here because they want to. They come to this Country the United States because in Mexico they get paid very little for these poor people give everything their family needs. I hope this movie makes the people realize that the Mexicans and the Latinos that come from other Country that they are needed and if something happens this whole Country will be in a lot of trouble because other people that are not Latinos or Mexicans will work in the fields. They do work very hard to be able to survive, but their are people that do not understand they are needed in California and other states in the United States. The people that are here in the country illegally are not here for free and they pay taxes when they pay rent for an apartment or in other things they buy so in my perspective reason these people should not be treated bad with a harsh respect against these poor people that do work very hard to give their family what they think.

    Posted by vanessa at May 14, 2004 07:11 PM
    I have read the comments posted. Some have angered me and some have made me laugh. Mexicans or any other groups of people regardless of legal status are just cogs in this wheel. We all suffer from those who bring down our wages, who take away our jobs, who have it all and we have nothing, who don't have to pay for their education ( legacy students) who sit in houses that we will never have, the POWER ELITE. The transnational corporations are the real problem, hello did everyone forget about ENRON, WORLDCOM, & other American Corporations that robbed employees and cheated the government millions of dollars. Come on people look past color & race and open your eyes. The Wealthy are the one's cheating everyone. Not Mexicans.

    Posted by Angie at May 14, 2004 07:14 PM
    All the racist people here make me sick, get off your ******* computer and go work on the fields to earn your living! after that come back and keep complaining how mexicans are taking your so precious jobs away

    Posted by at May 14, 2004 07:33 PM
    All I see in these comments is ignorance from both sides. The ones who say that this country would be nothing without Mexicans, I highly doubt it. But I do believe that most illegal immigrants pay their way one way or another. Many of them do get taxes taken out of their already pathetic paychecks. Whether they pay federal or local tax,it doesnt matter which one they pay it still goes to services for everyone. And just a bit of information, whites dont lagg far behind in the use of welfare. Yet you see more white people begging on the streets than you see any minority. At least the minority are out there trying to better their lives. For those of you who cant stand illegal immigrants, Sorry, Get used to it!! Its a never ending circle that gets worse because of absent minded people like some of you. You need to learn to live together and work with each other to make this country, OUR COUNTRY A BETTER PLACE!!!

    Posted by Mary at May 14, 2004 07:52 PM
    Quetzalcoatl, your way of thinking makes you just like them. You are as ignorant as they are by expressing such anger. That type of thinking will only make things worse. Abby is right, the land belongs to the people who conquered it...thats how history evolves. For all of you who cant seem to get over the fact that this is not Mexico anymore, you need a reality check. Work with what we have now, not with what happened a long time ago. Be proud of your heritage but also realize that you are evolving into a new society. People need to open their eyes and minds. It is sad to say that Mexicans are the least educated minority in the country. And instead of making unsupported comments, like a lot of you are making, try to educate yourself and others to make those statistics a thing of the past.

    Posted by Mary at May 14, 2004 08:53 PM
    HATE! HATE! HATE! is all I feel here. Before I am Mexican, I am African, European, Asian, Indian. Its time to move on fellow humans, after all half the people you hate don't know it & the other half don't care. Life is way too short to burden yourself. PEACE BE WITH YOU ALL

    Posted by the 2nd coming at May 14, 2004 09:52 PM
    I think americans don't really realize that one they they were immigrants to and this was our land they just took it away from us so strat to think better who is the immigrant who is th one that should be out of california. Also they wouldn't pay more for the products came on they are complaining about the price in the gas. Also they are kind of lazy white people would'n work in the plantations let's be real they love us the mexicas salvadorean uruguaian and any latino or why do they always eat at taco bell or acapulco? why they sing so happy la bamba? why do they celebrate 5 de mayo? Just think every time you eat that an immigrant might be the one who pick that lettuce.

    Posted by A proud mexican at May 14, 2004 11:02 PM
    Anybody that lives in so cal knows that illegals don't just take the " field" jobs that this board talks about so much. they have also taken many construction jobs, factory jobs that used to belong to americans. I can't remember when the last time was that i saw an actual american doing apartment repair (painting, installing floors, etc), yard work, etc. they're always illegalss that are hired. They have successfully destroyed what was profitable for american born people. I don't believe that the people who hire the illegals always pass the savings down to the consumer either. For example, my friend next door owns an apartment building and regularly hires illegals to do the property improvements. He does NOT pass on the savings to his tenants. So how do we as TAXPAYING americans benefit from their being here, not to mention all of the freebies that they tend to get on account of being poor and breeding so many unruly chillun. I believe that the "owners" pocket the savings to make themselves richer than if they had hired american born people to do the work. I personally would love to see proper enforcement of our borders to keep out all of the breeding freeloaders.

    Posted by eric at May 15, 2004 12:46 AM
    Come on people! Do your homework . . . No doubt this is a heated issue, but the real risks don't directly involve, or require, racism. Just look at the data, and see the limited ways it can be interpreted. We have a major fiscal crisis . . . this is bottom line stuff that preempts every other consideration. If we continue to undermine primary economic securities, then all the other fair-minded notions are useless.

    Please read this article carefully. I'd be interested in some exchanges based on its claims.

    http://adnetsolfp2.adnetsol.com/ssl_.../gsp/gsp18.htm

    Posted by at May 15, 2004 02:10 AM
    Eric, first of all your friend next door who owns an apartment building is the cheating ******* who takes the money from his tenants and pays illegal immigrants for cheap labor. Why dont you have a talk with him, since he's your friend? Second of all WE as TAXPAYERS benefit by paying less for our food. And third of all nobody is keeping the white man from getting these jobs. I've seen plenty of Mexican Americans doing these jobs, because you seem to forget that just because you see someone who looks hispanic doesnt mean they are illegal.

    Posted by Mary at May 15, 2004 02:50 AM
    Jeff Torres, I see you got my point. I still see hope as an option but its in a very dim light right now.
    What most have failed to realize is that whenever this country or a state is in a dire deficit, it's time to blame the immigrants. Look at this country's history with the Irish and Chinese and see how they were also used as scapegoats. Who knows maybe when US Mexicans have super-populated, not to mention taken over California, there will be another group of immigrants to blame our problems on. What many have also failed to see is that there are not only Mexican immigrants here. Yes, i agree Mexicans do make up the majority of immigrants but then there are our brothers from ****her south that come here too. And, they have to cross through Mexico as well.
    So whats my point? Im a first generation immigrant that was lucky enough to come here during the early 70's when it was easier to get a "greencard". My parents came to this country for the better of my and my brother's future. I have a University degree now and can say for the most part it's good to be a Chicano in the United States.
    All this hateful replies by some stem from ignorance. I bet if all Americans had the opportunity to have at least a college degree with a diversified campus, all this hate bull**** would diminish eventually. Education is the key to our success.
    But if all else fails, this planet must go through an Evolutionary Makeover.
    Thank you and have a wonderful day!

    Posted by changoman at May 15, 2004 03:11 AM
    Unfortunately, HATE for humanity is extremely prevalent, (as was concluded after reading some of your comments)! As for those of you with the blatant "anti-Mexican & anti-immigrant" view, I suggest you get educated. We need to face the following fact: Minority groups (or groups not in power)in the United States, such as African-Americans, Latinos, Asians, Middle Easterners, Jews, Women, people with disabilities,homosexuals, and those of low SES, face hate and discrimination every day. As for White people, men, all those able bodied, AND also those who face any "ism" it is important to understand the concepts of "PRIVILEGE , MARGINALIZATION, DISCRIMINATION, OPPRESSION, SCAPEGOATING,PREJUDICE, RACISM,ANTISEMITISM, CLASSISM, ABLEISM, & SEXISM." These are highly studied concepts you may consider studying prior to stating your comments. We live in a country where slavery dominated for hundreds of years and where the "isms" continue to be a detrimental part of all of our daily lifes (wether you use denial is another). One thing that distinguishes us from animals is our ability to think critically and emote right? Well it would be wonderful to put our brain to use prior to our impulses.WE MAY WANT TO LISTEN TO THE WORDS OF PAIN FROM PEOPLE BEFORE YOU JUDGE! When someone calls you a racist, they want to tell you "I am angry and hurt because I want my feelings and my experiences to be validated, I am invisible in this country, and I want you to understand that you hold White Privilege."

    Posted by viewer of film at May 15, 2004 05:05 AM
    these movie goes out to all the pilgrims that immigrated from england. so who is the real immigrant.california is mexican land that is why its so great, we will never leave, so love it or start swimming. to all you chicano's educate yourselves , because the truth is that if we want change we need to start with ourselves. change comes from the bottom, don't expect anything from this greedy political system.
    all they want us for is to be pleasants, but are history is greater than that. are ancestors were better than all that. we need to demand more from are selves and stop being grateful to this racist white people. we need to stop thinking about labor working, and start looking at a higher education.

    Posted by emiliano zapata at May 15, 2004 06:54 AM
    One of my major problems is validated by many of these messages. While it is unfortunately true that many typical "white" people are ignorant of their own history and take much of what they have for granted, that stereotype certainly doesn't fit for everyone. No group wants to be stereotyped, labeled, or anything similar, nor should they be. Not all "blacks" are lazy and violent, not all Jews are greedy and cheap, not all Southerners are poor trailer trash, and certainly not all illegal immigrants from south of the border are ignorant, uneducated workers who leech off the system and breed twleve children.

    Yet, on my Forum here, I see so much hate from both sides. I see "whites" saying that all imiigrants are bad and should get out, but I also see immigrants saying, essentially, that it is "our turn now, since you stole our land, soon we will be the majority and then watch out!" Both views are sadly naive and do not further the cause of equality and justice.

    I just simply don't like the fear and resentment I see from many of the non-immigrants here, and I don't like the sense of entitlement and revenge I perceive coming from many of the immigrants.

    Posted by Jason at May 15, 2004 10:21 AM
    Someone wanted comments on the following article:

    http://adnetsolfp2.adnetsol.com/ssl_.../gsp/gsp18.htm

    Well, go here and read mine (you may need to "glue" the URL together):

    http://www.jasonsimms.com/archives/2...migration.html

    Posted by Jason at May 15, 2004 10:51 AM
    Hey guys... here's a picture of the controversial billboard... my friend took the picture...


    (if that doesn't work. copy and paste it... http://www.photobucket.com/al***s/10...a/9d672f22.jpg)

    Posted by JON at May 15, 2004 12:53 PM
    Without the mexicans this country won't do anything we are the ones that work all the day just to earn a little money.we can do everything.

    Posted by juan at May 15, 2004 01:24 PM
    mary,
    i know the difference between a mexican american and a mojado (i am mexican american). Why couldn't the fruit and vegetables be picked by LEGAL immigrants? Why is every taxpayers' responsibility to pay to educate the mojados' children? If they come here to work, fine, just leave the wife and kids back home in mexico. We pay more than enough taxes in cali and don't need to support them with free education, healthcare and subsidized housing. the aggressive mexican mafia legislators consistently propose ways to provide them with even more freebies at the expense of the calif taxpayer. It's not just mexicans either. In west hollywood, there is a sizable amount of russian immigrants who are always the first to be rewarded with free/subsidized housing ahead of any citizens who have lived and paid taxes here all of their lives. btw, i'd gladly pay more for my vegetables and fruit in exchange for lower taxes if all of the illegals would leave the state.

    Posted by eric at May 15, 2004 01:47 PM
    I do not know if I made my point clear with my previous message. I said "scapegoating," it is what people are doing to the illegal immigrants. We judge that illegal immigrants are to blame for our economy, which is so false. Study economics, social psychology, sociology & history! Scapegoating is exactly what happened to the Jews in Germany and apparently we do not learn from our history!

    Posted by viewer of film at May 15, 2004 04:07 PM
    How utterly ridiculous to compare the U.S.'s treatment of Mexicans to Germany's abuse of the Jews. Nobody is advocating genocide, or the slightest abuse of Mexicans . . . only that they come and live here legally. The U.S., to my knowledge, is one of the few nations to go soft on its immigration laws. You won't see that in Europe, and nobody's blaming them for cruelty to immigrants.

    Posted by at May 15, 2004 06:01 PM
    I know you guys are right about me being ignorant and all. I wrote all that just to blow off some steam against those two. I fell better now and I agree that the land belongs to those who are willing to fight for it. It just sadens me to see many people, not just my fellow mexicans, but also those from other countries who are willing to give anything to escape from their homelands to find some freedom and are put down by many. What I mean is that this country is founded on different cultures. The American culture is that of a "coctail" of many races. Even people who come seeking the promiseland fight in the wars that America is involved in. Many loose their lives for this country and are merited, yet not accepted by people with the mentality as those two. Yes, I wrote the stuff before with the same mental block but it was because I was blinded by hatred at the time. I trutly believe that everyone should do the best in their will to accdept eachother. Not just live a life of put eachother down for stupid events. I mean that in all sides because either way you look at it, every race has their wrongful thoughts about another race. That is what brings forth the problems. That is what one may desire but reality is different. We are all humans in the end, we humas are selfish no matter what we do right, it is for the sole reason of self appraisal. Sad but true.

    Posted by Quetzalcoatl at May 15, 2004 07:08 PM
    Dear Q:

    I'd wager most with a conservative view of immigration i.e, enforcing the laws on the books, can muster some compassion for the plight of illegals seeking refuge from their deplorable homeland conditions. The problem isn't one of mere compassion, but prudence with respect to those infrastructures which have made immigration in the U.S. a successful venture. Those infrastructures are eroding, and so to save our state hospitals, welfare system, and avoid isolated Mexican communities that see, but don't partake, of a middle class economy, we must slow down and look at the issue in terms of qualitative measures, not simply the longevity of U.S. society, i.e, not just the needs of those who have the right to come here, even legally.


    Posted by at May 15, 2004 07:50 PM
    This movie plays the race card and from reading everybodies responses they have fallen into the captialist trap.

    It is not about racist but social-economic status. This country is based on greed and power. 5% American families control 95% of the American families. I know some latinos that take advantage of other latinos. It is not just whites agianst minorities.

    In this country we either victimize or demonize people. The argument is not about race but about how humans take advantage of other humans. Captialisn is a divide and conquer philosphy. Race is just on tactic that the power that be use so that we stay divided.

    In God's eyes there are no illegal immigrants

    Posted by Tom at May 15, 2004 08:03 PM
    Tom:

    I guess we should get God to run the country, but then we'd end up like the Arabs, who can't make up their minds as to whether or not human beings should have individual sovereignty or not.

    You won't find a form of government throughout human history that wasn't dependent on power gambits and subversive ploys to gain and maintain pragmatic alliances. The weaker countries do it too, and would cherish the day they can take the role of superpower. Not a single one of them would behave in the altruistic fashion you're suggesting. Geopolitical relations aren't managed like a good marriage.

    Posted by at May 15, 2004 08:18 PM
    These responses also remind me how Martin Luther King had to deal with spiritual leaders of this so call Judo-Christian country.

    The Black Clergy came against King because they said King is using a Hindu tactic of noviolence. King responded that the best christian that ever lived in his live time was Gandi.

    The White Clergy also came against King. King repsonded that he would rather deal with the KKK than the White Clery because at least the KKK were up front and would say, "Let's hang these negros." While the the white clergy said don't worry it would all be OK in God's timing.

    King stated he could not wait for the white clergy because his people were dying.

    I say all this because America needs another moral awakening of how we treat others in this country.

    Race is a touchy subject for people who are dogmatic in their beliefs.

    This movie is just a movie and should be use as a tool of debate not ignorance.

    Remember ones persons liberator is ones persons dictator.

    Posted by Tom at May 15, 2004 08:30 PM
    I believe the people should run the country. Our constitutions has kept us from being like the Arab nations. Thank God.

    My comments are not about God, but how we as a people would compromise are morals and ethics and exploit others for material gain.

    This movie poke fun at the exploitation of Mexicans and is it this exploitation touch our moral consciousness to have this debate.

    Posted by tom at May 15, 2004 08:48 PM
    EVER SINCE THE CONQUEST..MEXICO HAS BEEN SPIT ON,
    STEPPED ON, RAPED BY THE SAME IMPERIALISTS WHO ARE STILL OUT CONQUERING NATIONS. THAT DIRTY
    MEXICO YOU PEOPLE SPEAK OF ONLY GOT TO BE THAT
    WAY AFTER THE SPANIARD,GERMAN,FRENCH,DAVY CROCKETS OF THE WORLD STOLE IT. REALIZE IT IS
    THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TURNED THE WORLD UPSIDE
    DOWN. IN ORDER TO HAVE A VERY POOR GUY, THERE
    HAS TO BE A VERY RICH ONE. HE IS THE ONE WHO
    CREATS POVERTY. PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO PLACE TO LIVE
    MUST BECOME WANDERERS IN ORDER TO FEED THEIR
    FAMILIES AND SELVES. FOR EXAMPLE: DID YOU KNOW
    THAT CABO SAN LUCAS IS NOW 75PERCENT AMERICAN
    AND THE MEXICAN WORKERS ARE BROUGHT IN FROM
    ALL PARTS OF MEXICO TO WORK IN THE RESTAURANTS
    AND HOTELS..AND CLEAN THE HOUSES OF THE RICH?
    DID YOU KNOW THAT MORE AMERICAN MIGRATE TO
    MEXICO EVERY YEAR THAN MEXICANS TO THE U.S.
    I SUGGEST SOME OF YOU FOLKS REALLY READ SOME
    HISTORY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT BRINGS MEXICANS
    TO THE U.S.(AND IT ISN'T BECAUSE IT IS THEIR
    HOME ANYWAY.)
    FLO


    Posted by Flo at May 15, 2004 10:14 PM

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