The Dream Act: Not Likely to Pass

[U.S. Immigration Lawyer]

I have two feelings about the Dream Act. One, I’d like it to pass. At the same time, I can see reasons to hold off. The other side calls it an amnesty, an open door. There is the potential, almost a certainty, that thousands will file fraudulent and undeserved applications. Of course, for those that eventually obtain U.S. citizenship through Dream, there are also subsequent beneficiaries. Essentially, the act itself would give illegal parents and older siblings reason to stay.....

Please visit http://greencard1.com/the-drea...-not-likely-to-pass/ to read more about my analysis on the Dream Act, and give me comments. Thanks.

[U.S. Immigration Lawyer]

I have two feelings about the Dream Act. One, I’d like it to pass. At the same time, I can see reasons to hold off. The other side calls it an amnesty, an open door. There is the potential, almost a certainty, that thousands will file fraudulent and undeserved applications. Of course, for those that eventually obtain U.S. citizenship through Dream, there are also subsequent beneficiaries. Essentially, the act itself would give illegal parents and older siblings reason to stay.....

Please visit http://greencard1.com/the-drea...-not-likely-to-pass/ to read more about my analysis on the Dream Act, and give me comments. Thanks.

[Theone]

I fear you are on the wrong site for logical discussion.

I would go with it IF it provided a solution, as it does not, what is the point. Are you going to enact it every year?

Anyway, here goes:

My long standing approach would be to document all those that are here and who will surrender themselves to digital fingerprints and background checks.

In itself I do not see the point. All legal immigrants have to do this anyway.


For those that are presently working under the table, for the first time they’d pay into the federal tax system.

Lots of people work under the table, legal and illegal. Not an immigration issue.


Issue a fraud proof ‘identity card’, the same smart card technology would also be issued to everyone else living or visiting the United States.

There is nothing to suggest that either political party would go along with this, seems USC's would not go for it. And there is no such thing as fraud proof. How could it be issued to visitors?


Criminal aliens won’t sign up leaving themselves high visible and vulnerable to removal.

How would they be visible?


Each ‘documented’ alien will have 10 years to learn English, and through whatever immigration system is in place must find a way to obtain citizenship.

There is a an English test as part of naturalisation, but the level is a joke. I presume you mean American English and to what standard?


The commission of a serious crime during this period would violate one’s conditional status.

So what would happen then? They just go back to being under the table. Deported and they just U turn.


Employers for the first time would be mandated to check everyone’s legal status and be held accountable.

A current requirement and meaningless.


At the same time the U.S. would create a viable guest worker program.

9.8% employment, in reality twice that and never likely to really go away. Any visa's available would be a pittance compared to those wishing to get one. H1b on steroids.


Enforcement of legal status by local, state and federal agencies would ensue, and being here in an undocumented state would be difficult.

How would you ensure that? Racial Profiling? Looked what happened when Arizona tried.


There will be very little incentive to come to the country illegally. And for those that do, they would stand out.

Many countries have such systems in force and still have a major migrant issue. How could you spot a recently legalized migrant from one that came in the day after? In fact how could you tell when they came in as by definition there was no inspection.

[davdah]

That lawyer be right.

If that there bill passes it be given hope to all the rest who dont be qualifien to stay rounds. They aint goin nowhere nohow never if it pass.

It also be giving motivations to peoples in other countrys to make the trip bein illegal since they sees we be lettin people violate laws with no punishments and maybe they can stay no matters what. Shoot, that be how reagans amnesty caused this in the firsts place. He lets 2 millions stay and it be provoking 12 million more to come and here we are.


Question bein now. What bouts them people fergotten about. Ya know, the ones called U.S. citizens who be payin fer it all? The ones who be losen their jobs cause illegals took it fer 2.00 an hour. Their kids cant gets no eduction cause half the kids in his class cants speak english and it be way overcrowded. They goin hungry and made poor. If anythings, they should be filen a class action lawsuit against any politicians who be malicioulsy violating their constitutional rights intentionally interferin with pursuit of happiness, Yups, thats what Id do.

Why should us U.S. citizens have to surrender to further privacy invasions and freedom restrictions cause of these illegals? I dont wants no fedreal Id card and finger printen. I ant payin fer someone elses mistakes. That be unconstitutional.


Most yer ideas theon be nuts. ya thinks Unemployment is stayin at 9.8%? Yet, ya still wants a guest worker thing? There be no logic with that.

It be amzin how peoples be claimen they have feelins for these illegals and wanten fer their status. Yets the suffrin it be causing people who is their citizen bothers and sisters in this here country be gettin an icey cold shoulder.

[Brit4064]

The above is the same person who believed unemployment shouldn't have been extended. He wants it to be in the form of a loan. So much for all that talk about helping his fellow USC's in time of need

[davdah]

I stills believe in that. It be a good idea to motivate people who can be workin to get to it.

What you think unemployment benefits is? Ya thinks its free money? No. It be borrowed. If that there loan be made a little more relevent to who be gettin it, maybe they take notice realizin it be needin payed back so they tries a bit harder to gets a job.

It be helpin in a lot o ways. Fer one. Many of those lower wage jobs be takin by us Americans and the illegals get crowded out cause the jobs becomes more visible in the emplyment pursuit arena. Them employers start havin clear english speakers showin up and they be less likely pullin them shenanagans with 2.00 an hour work. They knows they cants get away with it so they be forced to comply with labor laws.

It help raise the standards fer everyone. Them 2.00 an hour jobs turn to 12.00 and with that new money more stuff be bought at the food store. The food store gonna have to hire more people cause more stuff be movin on and off the shelf. The shipper and wholeseller be hiren more cause more stuff be sent to the stores. The maker, well, they gots to hire more too cause everyone be gettin more this and that. Ya sees how a better wage through un-corrupted pay scales be makin things better? I hopes so. If not, you needs to take a class in economics. Shoot, you bein a pilot might get yer job back cause you be part of that supply chain that be hurtin cause of this baloney.

[Brit4064]

Geez, the redneck must have been drinking some strong stuff last night because his brain is fried. Unemployment INSURANCE is not free money that's true. It comes from the employee who pays for it from his or her wages..duh! Like that batsh*t crazy Sharron Angle, you want to remove it all in favor of whole privatization of government services.

Oh yeah of course, get rid of the illegals and that $10ph job magically becomes a $20ph one. I'm sure Walmart will gladly pay $20ph to stock shelves. Since they no longer hire illegals, the wages they pay must have gone up right? Yeah right, go and ask any Wally World employee that!

[davdah]

You be mistaken, yets again. It be employers who be payin into that fund. I sees you nevah signed the front of one them pay checks. Anyhows, them funds have long since been depleted on the state level and ole Obama be borrowing money to cover the extentions they be given out.

I explains you some simple economic principles to shows you how wages be movin up or down.

Lets say Walmart be hirin and they offerin 12.00 per hour durin the good years. Wont be many showin up, right. Yup, thats fer sure. Thats cause there be better jobs to picks from fer people out lookin. So, mr walmart be havin to raise the rate to attracts some people to work fer em. He ends up payin around 15.00 to get someone who is half way responsible. That be a function of demand versus price fer labor.

Now, lets look at now. Mr walmart knows people is desperate and they be hirin at minimum wage. Which they is by the way. Thats cause for every job walmart posts they gets hundreds o people applyin fer it. No needs to pay 15.00 or even 12 when most people be taken 8.00.

What you think would happen if 12 million jobs all of a sudden became open? There be less people showin up fer each job forcing labor costs up a tad. That means a bigger paycheck if you gets my drift.

[Brit4064]

Mr Redneck assumes those jobs will be jobs Americans will do. In many cases they won't so it is hardly opening up more jobs. More likely, those jobs will either disappear or move abroad. Mr Naive thinks that Americans will go and toil in the agriculture industry for $12ph all day, all week long. I bet they last one week. The fact remains, Walmart no longer employ illegals so where's those $20ph shelve stacking jobs hmmm?

[Theone]

I run a very small business, in a low pay sector.

One of my employees is a LPR all the rest are USC's. I know may many people who would jump at $10 an hour, there are just no jobs out there.

A good wage at Walmart is $15, the norm is a lot less.

Although we are a ranching area, very few people work the land. Very few here without documentation work the land either.

We are also not far from the ski areas, I am told by friends who used to be ski ***s years ago that you could still make $15 an hour cleaning etc. Not any longer, all minimum wage. English not required.

The only jobs that provide benefits where I am are Gov jobs, the jobs that have gone away paying good wages and good benefits are not the ones coming back.

I can see unemployment settling at 10%, add those who give up etc and double it.

[davdah]

Neitha of ya get it do ya.

We gots 12 million extra people here be watering down the labor pool. Gets rid of them and wages go up. Simple supply and demand.

Before we gots invaded Americans were doing those jobs. They were doin them fer more than the next to nuthin wages them illegals gettin. That be the difference.

Theon, if you needed someone now you could gets them cheap on the counta of lots be appling, right? What if you couldn't? What if you had to offer a lot more to get someone to answer yer want add cause most everyone had a job? Thats what happens when you have more jobs available.

Brit, you be a defeatist. No wonda ya left England. You surrender at the first sign of a fight and be lookin for the excuses fer why yer life be sub par.

[Brit4064]

You have no idea who I am or what motivates me. My life is anything but subpar nor do I look for excuses. Removing 12m illegals will not magically create 12m more jobs. Sadly Theone is probably right. The US will have to get used to having long term unemployed. Anybody thinking otherwise isn't in the real world. Whole privatization of the Government isn't a cure all either.

[davdah]

Yes I do. I knows everythang. You be that fedex pilot on furlogh.

If ya fire 12 million people, the jobs be still there. They don't vanish, only the people do. There be another 12 million or so ready and able to take em. Just not at 2.00 an hour. So, we'll see who's economic ideas be playin out. So fars Is been right on the money. Pun intended and all.

Theon be wrong, and Is think shes knows it too taken what I said with some thinkin. Yous got yer head in the sand boy.

[Someone12]

Removing 12M dirtbags will (a) freshen the air considerably (b) reduce the available pool of cheap labor, causing wages to rise in many industries and (c) [best of all] rid our country of 12M parasites and send a message to future border jumpers and visa cheats: "We don't want your sorry unwashed behinds in OUR country..."

[Brit4064]

I'd rather be an intelligent realistic boy than a naive, ignorant self-centered man.