Utah Bill Looking to Create Work Permits for Undocumented

[HS News]

With help from the conservative Sutherland Institute, Utah State Senator Luz Robles has begin work on a new bill that would offer the state’s undocumented immigration population the chance to legally work.hs-news

[HS News]

With help from the conservative Sutherland Institute, Utah State Senator Luz Robles has begin work on a new bill that would offer the state’s undocumented immigration population the chance to legally work.hs-news

[davdah]

I wonduz how the Fed v State's rights crowd will rule on this. Will they's be consistent and say Utah dont be haven a right to usurp them Fed laws or be as predictable and trumpet the cause. Eithah way, this bill be goin down in flames before the ink dries.

[federale86]

Yeah, all the Olde hypocrites will now cry States Rights like a Klansman, but not long ago they said States cannot create their own immigration laws.

[Someone12]

I wonder what the unemployed citizens of Utah feel about this idiotic piece of legislation....what a deal...legalize thousands of $hitbags who work for $4 an hour, enriching business owners while depressing wages in many blue collar fields....what smart thinking....(not)

[Someone12]

and why is some state senator so focused on people who don't even belong in the US? What about the US citizens he took an oath to defend and support? Or are his pockets too stuffed with cash from big business?

[ProudUSC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Someone12:
I wonder what the unemployed citizens of Utah feel about this idiotic piece of legislation....what a deal...legalize thousands of $hitbags who work for $4 an hour, enriching business owners while depressing wages in many blue collar fields....what smart thinking....(not) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can anyone living in the US support themselves on $4/hour? If you're talking about the agricultural jobs, Americans aren't going to take those jobs, S12. It's a fact.

[Brit4064]

But Proudie, davdah believes that if all illegals are removed those jobs will still be here and Americans will want them them and be willing to do them. We're talking those high paying $4ph jobs here. Oh silly me, I forgot, they'll no longer be $4ph but magically become $14ph jobs because now it's all legal labor only for picking fruit in the fields. Those businesses sure are gonna be generous all of a sudden Pure pie in the sky.

[Theone]

How big is Utah's agricultural sector?

I thought it was pretty tiny.

So this has nothing to do with agriculture.

And I am pretty sure the minimum wage is a lot more than $4 ph.

[Brit4064]

I'm sure it's more than $4ph Theone. I'm highlighting davdah's belief that removal of all illegal immigrants will increase the pay of USC's and legal immigrants. A $10ph job won't magically become a $20ph job no matter how much he might like to think it will.

[ProudUSC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Theone:
How big is Utah's agricultural sector?

I thought it was pretty tiny.

So this has nothing to do with agriculture.

And I am pretty sure the minimum wage is a lot more than $4 ph. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I brought up agriculture, Theone, because I can't think of many other jobs that pay as little as $4/hr. There are minimum wage requirements and the aggie jobs seem to get away with paying unprevailing wages. It didn't have anything to do with Utah. I was just responding to S12's remark regarding $4/hr. in general.

[davdah]

Let me clue ya's in on some facts. The minimum wage be 7.25 with some states havin higher amounts. Which ever be bigger, that be the minimum set. Utah's be the same as the Fed. In case ya wonderin.

Picken crops aint the only thing them illegals be doin. They also took over housing. No wondaz houses built like krap, but that be another story. Anyhows, a licensed tradesman be earning over 20.00 easy. No arguments there. An illegal usually be makin minimum wage or less. Usually less cause they illegal. And, they aints got no proof they know what they be doin.

Gettin back to crop picken. Them crops still need picken. Years on we didnt have illegals so someone picked them, didnt they? O course, and they be Americans too. This B.S. that americans wont do it be just that, BS. The only problems be the wages paid. Aint no 2.00 gonna slide by. That be why americans wont do it cause the employers know there be lots o illegals who will fer 2.00 or 3.00 an hour. Same goes fer every job they be taken. janitors, restaraunt workers, construction, you name it. Befor we was invaded americans did all them jobs. Jobs that still need doin. Aint no more complicated than that.

Brit, The magic be american workers knowin better what fair pay is. If the FAA permitted illegals flyen fer FedEX do ya think you'd keep yer job more than a day? I doubts it when FedEx could pay some Mexican pilot 1/3 what they be given you. What yer tune be if that happened?

[ProudUSC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Years on we didnt have illegals so someone picked them, didnt they? O course, and they be Americans too. This B.S. that americans wont do it be just that, BS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We've had migrant workers doing the picking of crops for as long as I can remember. I'm betting if all the illegals were deported, the aggie jobs would be hard to fill. Just my two cents. It's not the same America as it was back when people didn't mind putting in a hard day's work to make a buck. Remember, we're talking about jobs which are back-breaking and require people who are willing to work long hours with low pay. I don't know many Americans who fall into this category. I'm not trying to knock my fellow Americans, just facing reality. They're not going to pick tomatoes, lettuce, etc. if there's something better out there.

[Someone12]

Proud: when I referred to '$4' an hour labor, that is 'net' after unscrupulous employers subtract this and that, much like the coal mining 'company towns' did years ago...as to the ag biz, well, we have an H2A program, that has NO CAP to the number of ag workers that the land owners could petition....some facts and figures from 2009: 1.4 million ag workers, 78,000 H2A visas issued....hmmm....the land owners claim the H2A process is too 'cumbersome' but in reality, what they really mean is they don't like the fact that if they hire ag workers using this program, they must (a) pay prevailing rates (b) NOT charge the workers for shovels or gloves and other stupid nonsense and (c) NOT shelter them in a lean-to and then charge them Marriot rates [or in fact, charge them at all!]...so while many illegals (and few Americans) would work ag jobs (I agree), not all of the 12M+ illegals are pickin' lettuce and cabbage.
This bill floating around in Utah is just a means for business owners to have a much bigger pool of cheap labor to draw from, so they can keep wages down to the bare minimum. That is baloney, even recognizing that business wants to manage labor costs; but to do so in such an underhanded way while the land owners rake in zillons of $$$ is just plain wrong.
Just one person's opinion.

[ProudUSC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">hmmm....the land owners claim the H2A process is too 'cumbersome' but in reality, what they really mean is they don't like the fact that if they hire ag workers using this program, they must (a) pay prevailing rates (b) NOT charge the workers for shovels or gloves and other stupid nonsense and (c) NOT shelter them in a lean-to and then charge them Marriot rates [or in fact, charge them at all!] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then, if this is true, why aren't the land owners being penalized? Why aren't there measures in place to insure they must hire legal workers? I don't believe eVerify (as flawed as it is) extends to this market, does it? What enforcement measures are in place to insure the greedy landowners aren't taking advantage of lower-paid illegal workers? There's something wrong with that. Our government is not doing enough to enforce the laws and make illegal immigration to this country unattractive.