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[From responce to Aliba , posted on Page 5 of the thread "The Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act "
, on July 02, 2005 at 12:55 AM]
LINK:
http://discuss.ilw.com/eve/forums/a/...1010595521/p/5
Aliba,
your last post I will not comment on. Instead I will bring the copy-paste of my responce to Native, where I already addressed those issues.
Besides, there are my earlier responces to you that you may read some other time.. ))
Now, as far as statistics go..))
You see, when statistics support your point of view, you never scrutinize them so thoroughly... but when Washington Post publishes latest polling you suddenly recall all tricks of the business you said you are involved in personally ... you very vividly explain to readers how structuring the question may influence/bring about desired responce.. ))
Well, in my turn I can tell you that Am very well aware of the very same methods that are used by 'anti-immigrant' pollers who claim that most Americans are against any kind of legal status for people who anyway work there.. ))
Such poor state of affairs ( so clearly acknowledged by you) leads us to conclude that Opinion Statistics in General are unreliable source of information and do not reflect the reality..))
If it be so, then HOW can you claim that MOST Americans are against giving any kind of legal status to undocumented workers?? ))
Can you answer this question?? ))
How do YOU know what MOST Americans think of this subject? ))
Have you personally spoken, at length, to 150 million adult Americans lately?? ))
Next, you question the assumption on part of some people that your argumets in immigration debate are racially motivated.
It makes you even angry that people can think such things..
But there are couple of things I would want to bring to your attention in regards to this:
1.
If you are too lazy to read books and search internet for information on founder of fair, numbersusa and others, then at least you can turn on your TV and tune to C-Span Ch. and listen to what restrictionists OPENLY SAY TODAY (!!).
They OPENLY acknowledge that there is a serious threat , that ETHNIC minority (mostly Mexicans) MIGHT become a majority in this country by the year 2050 if no emergency measures are taken.
And that such demographic change would result in cultural catastrophy of unseen yet magnitute, and that it would mean the destruction of Western Civilization as it is known to all of us. That America will become Niger-ica or El Salva-merica by the year 2075...
So, they say, to avoid apocalipsis we must urgently deport anyone who hasn't yet got a chance to legalize here , plus we should shut the borders, declare moratorium on ALL kind of immigration (including family members), and maintain such policy for as long as it is nesessary ,in order to bring the numbers of foreign born nationals to certain minimum...
Plus, we should encourage and give all the incentives to our 'best breed' , so they can multiply.
Cause it is worrysome to see all those Mexican and other 'uneducated' women bear their children as a street cat, while well educated White woman (the best breed) waits for years to get her first child, and then doesn't want to have a second or third one..
2. History.
Historically when waves of immigrants came from Western Europe, no one was unhappy about it.
There was no worry about criminals, cost to society or anything.
Instead, Emma Lazarus through Statue of Liberty was ASKING to give her "your poor, desperate" and etc..
But, things changed drastically when EASTERN EUROPEANS started coming in large numbers ( yes, even WHITE EASTERN EUROPEANS weren't initially welcomed ).
There were claims that East Europeans ( Pols, Russians) are in general imbeciles when compared to their Western European brethern, and are source of higher crime, crooked life style, diseases and etc.
Do I have to remind you of thousands of Eastern Europen Jews that were turned back to Hitler's Nazis, during WWII, as NOT QUALIFYING for admission and refuge here???
And do I have to remind you of the Quota that was set in 20's ( first time in history) in responce to high numbers of Asian ( Indo-Chineese ) immigrant influx here?
I mean, there are some interesting chapters in history, and you can't just deny facts and things that have taken place in past.
Do you think it is totally unreasonable and illogical to draw any parallels and patterns from the past??
If so, why? ))
What is the purpose of studying the subject called 'History'?? ))
Finally, as mentioned above, I am copy-pasting my earlier responce to Native that answers to some of your concerns brought in your last post.
Good luck! Smile
_________________________
Native:
Yes we shall see what happens ImmoralE.
IE:
Of course, we shall see.. ))
"The only thing we know about future developments, is that they will develope".))
I also notice, unable to argue your case on merits, you resort to name calling? ))
But let me tell you: I like it when likes of YOU call me "IMMORAL-E" ))
It means I am saying something factually correct and you simply can't take it, it infuriates you because it goes against your destroy-and-distort-the-facts' method of arguing your points.. ))
So feel free to call me what you wish, I will take it as a compliment ))
Native:
You sure are a strange one.
IE:
Just because I expose your "dreams"? ))
Native:
Let's pick apart some of your post.
IE:
Let's do that ))
Native:
1.Neither I nor Aliba for that matter have claimed to speak for all Americans. If we could speak for them we wouldn't be having debates or differences of opinions.
IE:
Oh, really? Then why do you always keep saying "Most Americans are MAD, CRAZY" about immigrants and want them all out?
Then don't say "Americans want this and that...",
say I, Native or I, Aliba, hate those Mexicans and want to kick their b u t t s out of America.
And we won't come back to this question again ))
Native:
2. I have no insecurity regarding feelings of racism towards Mexicans.
IE:
Really? Then why are you so vehemently denying your being racist, and even mention having Latinos in your family? ))
Native:
3. I have not repeatedly claimed I have Latino's in my family. I mentioned it ONCE to show that argument is dead in the water.
IE:
You didn't, Aliba did. And I was addressing both you and HIM.
Second, just because you mentioned it once doesn't mean it is in dead water. Who do you take me for? ))
I could write here day and night against Afro-Americans and then, at the end of the day could claim that I am Afro-American too ( though I could have green skin like a frog).
Would that ONE claim send anything to "dead water"?
This is internet, my friend, so we have to rely on logic and consistency of your statements rather than what claims you made here just "ONCE" or even twice.. ))
Native:
It is a stupid claim to say people against illegal immigration are racist.
IE:
Nobody made such claim.
But if you pick certain group of people and target them for certain CIVIL violation, and call them all CRIMINALS ( which is De Jure incorrect) just because you can't tolerate them..
Then I am not surprised if others call you "racist"..
Native:
It is really stupid to say we are against Mexicans!!
IE:
Again this racial insecurity..))
And why do you decide for OTHERS what is stupid or smart for THEM to say? ))
Native:
I have enjoyed several trips to Mexico.
IE:
You may have enjoyed several 'mamacitas' on your trip to Mexico as well ))
What does it prove?? ))))
Native:
... I have a problem with them not going back,
IE:
I know that.. ))
Native:
..breaking the law, jumping the line and all the many other things I have already stated. It just so happens the main law breakers are from Mexico. You would be hearing the same thing from me if it were the Canadians.
IE:
I doubt that statement of yours about Canadians.
I studied US history a bit.
Whenever there was high level of Immigration from Western Europe ( or by people of WE origin), nobody called those poor, desperate people "Illegals", "Criminals" and so on..they were all welcomed by statue of liberty, (even called for!) , nobody advocated any restrictions on immigration, other than restrictions based on ones health and criminal background.
But as soon as waves came from Asia(China) or Mexico, suddenly everyone started talking of "bad immigration" and "bad, law breaking immigrants".
And in past, unlike now, that anti-immigration movement had openly displayed it's racist motives/sentiments.
Only in post Civil Rights era "racial" arguments sound politically incorrect, so that new ways of 'arguing' the case are devised, but it doesn't change the essence of it a bit.
Native:
Now regarding the rest of your missive..
IE:
"missive".. again you have to resort to demagoguery, in absence of facts to support your argument ))
Go ahead, as I said I take it as compliment from you ))
Native:
President Bush has limited power.
IE:
I doubt that statement of yours )))
Native:
His election had more to do with who middle Americans DIDN'T want in office. They turned out the vote in hopes he would bring back family values and
return the highest office in the land to the people (not Hollywood or New York types).
IE:
Hehehe... The way you try to spin discussion really amuses me.. ))
Native:
He can not be re-elected and he is losing a lot of his supporters over his stance on immigration. Yes, I did vote for him but prior to that I always voted Democrat.
IE:
So you are a lifelong Democrat who voted for Republican?
Hehe..))
I think next you are going to say that you are Mexican illegal immigrant who is against Mexican illegal immigrants.. Hehe..)))
Native:
ImmoralE,
IE:
))
Native:
..the intolerance comes from the numbers that are here and how they are touching American lives.
IE:
Intolerance comes from bigotry and prejudice.
There are ways and methods of dealing with any kind of problem (and eliminating it too), without becoming prejudiced, bigoted and intolerant.
Native:
Regarding the "criminal" tag on illegal aliens. Maybe we call them criminals because of their enormous COST on our society.
IE:
That is little overstretching the term "criminal", isn't it? ))
So, anything that has "COST on our society" is a CRIME?
Tomorrow I can say that cleaning of environment or funding of schools is a CRIME because it has COST on our society? ))
I don't get your logic.. ))
Native:
When you have your hand in my pocket that is a crime.
IE:
I don't have my hand in your or anyone's pocket, so next time instead of saying "YOU", define precisely whom you refer to.
Thank you.
Native:
When you spread TB in my country, that is a crime.
IE:
Again "YOU"...))
Well.. if you literally pick-up a bag full with TB bacillas and spread those around through pulverizator, then certainly it's a crime.
But only being physically SICK, being a suffering victim of the disease, doesn't make someone a CRIMINAL. Come on, you can make better woopers, can't you??.. )))
Second, not ALL illegal mexican immigrants are sick of TB. There are cases of TB among all different groups of people, because TB illness does not discriminate and choose it's target by immigration status or race.
Again, it's is demagoguery and distorting of facts, to blame ENTIRE group of illegal Mexican immigrants for ailings of few.
Besides, carrying infectious disease makes one applying for immigration benefit INADMISSIBLE.
Who argues that those applying for Immigration benefits shouldn't PAY FOR MEDICAL SCREENING, and who argues against deporting/not-admitting those who are SICK WITH INFECTIOUS DISEASE back, based on fact of their IN-ADMISSIBILITY??
Native:
When your education comes before my child's, that is crime.
IE:
No, I am sorry but you are simply misinforming everyone here! ))
I assume by "YOU", you refer to illegal children attending public schools.
Well, there is a Supreme Court desicion that ENTITLED
ALL CHILDREN REGARDLESS OF STATUS to free education in public schools.
So, by definition it is NOT A CRIME to obey Supreme Court orders.
Now, if you don't like the ruling LAW and the ruling of Highest Court in land, that's a different subject.
But don't call people who OBEY THE LAW CRIMINALS.
Native:
When you can get free medical care where some Americans stay sick because they can't afford medical insurance that is a crime.
IE:
Again, misinfo!
Any HUMAN BEING can get EMERGENCY MEDICAL CARE, and later billed for it IF THEY HAVE NO INSURANCE COVERAGE.
Now, if Mexican and American have NO INSURANCE COVERAGE, they both will get treated in Emergency room ( and ONLY in EMERGENCY room, in Emergency cases).
Later, they will get the bill.
Of course, the one who has NOTHING to pay for it will end up not being able to pay for it, and as far as I know there is no law that allows to put someone in jail and be labeled criminal for not having means to pay for Emergency Medical Services..
Your arguments are full of woopers, Native )))
Native:
When you manipulate fellow Americans into marrying you (for a GC),
IE:
"You...YOU...YOU !!" )))
Yes, that's a CRIME. And SO IT MUST BE PROSECUTED!
Just like when you go to rob the bank or murder someone. You must be prosecuted and punished for your CRIMES.
But what is the point of saying this in the context of Mexican illegal immigration issue?
Aren't there native murderers and thieves here?
Can someone say "you are CRIMINAL, because 1. you are a NATIVE and 2. there are robbers and murderers among NATIVES?"
Your statements are laughable.. ))
Native:
..that is a crime (especially so for those who have spouses back in Mexico).
IE:
Sure it's a CRIME, who argues against it?
See above!
Native:
When you take American jobs, that is a crime.
IE:
No, as far as I know, when you take a JOB it is neither CRIME nor FELONY (Or do you have a US Title, Section and Subsection to refer to and enlighten me?))
To falsefully claim to be a Citizen in job application or using false documets for the same IS a crime, but most Mexican Illegals are working under the table without claiming anything.
So, again you use your wide brush and paint them ALL in one color.
Very typical of you ))
Native:
When you acquire false documents and pass them as real American papers, that is a crime.
IE:
Yes, and as CRIMINAL you should be then prosecuted!
Without distinction of race, color and origin.
Native:
..When you get foodstamps, medicaid and benefit from social programs meant for poor Americans, that is a crime.
IE:
See above.
Native:
..When you fraudently vote in our elections, that is a crime.
IE:
Yes, if you do that you are a felon. And felons, as I said above, should be prosecuted without distinction of race, color and origin.
Native:
........ I could go on for hours but I don't have time right now. Just let me know if you want some more.
IE:
Yes, I too can open CRIME BOOKS and cite every CRIME on books, saying "Murder is Crime", "Stealing is Crime", "Rape is Crime" and so on for days and weeks..
But what is your point?
Or do you mean to say that all CRIMES are committed by illegal Mexicans only?
If not, then what is the point of citing all the conceivable crimes here?
CRIME is CRIME and as SUCH it should be prosecuted, without any distinction of RACE, COLOR and ORIGIN, whether you are Native or Mexican doesn't matter.
Do I have to repead it? ))
Native:
Oh, and the reason we are not discussing laws still on the books regarding mouth to gentalia affections between American spouses may have something to do with the fact that is not the nature of this forum.
IE:
Hehehe... So, you would discuss those laws and go after people engaging in o r a l s e x if this was a proper site for it?? )))
Hehehe...
You surely amuse me ))
Native:
If there was a way to deport them all with diginity and respect I would be all for it.
IE:
And what stands on your way of advocating deportation with dignity and respect ??
Native:
It is the ones who have been here the longest that I hold responsible.
IE:
What is the point of inserting this sentence which seems to be out of context here??
Native:
Around 20% of Mexico's population is wealthy. The rest are poor. They have no middle class.
Most of the in between groups made their homes here in the USA and never looked back.
IE:
There you explain why it happens )))
Native:
Those who had originally planned to just make enough money to go back and buy a house or start a business..and make Mexico prosper. They never did it. They need to made to go home. Yes, even ahead of the migrants because after living in America, they would not settle for Mexico in the state it is now.
IE:
So, if you are consistent in your logic, then we should locate all descendants of "Mayflower" and deport them ahead of everyone else )))
Do you support that idea?
If not, please explain WHY?? )))
Native:
Regarding the rest of your post. I would like to see you give a link when you make a claim.
Please start with this one:
{In FACT latest nationall polls demonstrate that Americans are NOT as mad about immigrants as Tancredo claims, and more than 50% of AMERICANS support Immigration Reform proposed by Bush.}
LET'S SEE WHO IS DISTORTING FACTS!
IE:
No problem!
I see you don't read press, not even the front page of ILW )))
Very typical of someone who always makes biased, factually incorrect claims))
Here is the first link:
http://www.ilw.com/search/documentFrame.asp?
Request=poll&nPage=1&sort=Date&MaxFiles=25&
Fuzzy=&Phonic=&Stemming=Yes&NaturalLanguage=
No&HitNum=9&cmd=getdoc&DocId=6177&Index=
%5c%5cilw%5cwwwroot%5cdtSearch%5cILW%20Web%
20site&HitCount=1&hits=c0+&hc=448&req=poll
Article
A National Survey Of Voter Attitudes On Immigration
National Immigration Forum and American Immigration Lawyers Association commissioned a poll which concludes there is strong and intense support among likely voters for an immigration reform proposal that is comprehensive and bipartisan [end quote].
, on July 02, 2005 at 12:55 AM]
LINK:
http://discuss.ilw.com/eve/forums/a/...1010595521/p/5
Aliba,
your last post I will not comment on. Instead I will bring the copy-paste of my responce to Native, where I already addressed those issues.
Besides, there are my earlier responces to you that you may read some other time.. ))
Now, as far as statistics go..))
You see, when statistics support your point of view, you never scrutinize them so thoroughly... but when Washington Post publishes latest polling you suddenly recall all tricks of the business you said you are involved in personally ... you very vividly explain to readers how structuring the question may influence/bring about desired responce.. ))
Well, in my turn I can tell you that Am very well aware of the very same methods that are used by 'anti-immigrant' pollers who claim that most Americans are against any kind of legal status for people who anyway work there.. ))
Such poor state of affairs ( so clearly acknowledged by you) leads us to conclude that Opinion Statistics in General are unreliable source of information and do not reflect the reality..))
If it be so, then HOW can you claim that MOST Americans are against giving any kind of legal status to undocumented workers?? ))
Can you answer this question?? ))
How do YOU know what MOST Americans think of this subject? ))
Have you personally spoken, at length, to 150 million adult Americans lately?? ))
Next, you question the assumption on part of some people that your argumets in immigration debate are racially motivated.
It makes you even angry that people can think such things..
But there are couple of things I would want to bring to your attention in regards to this:
1.
If you are too lazy to read books and search internet for information on founder of fair, numbersusa and others, then at least you can turn on your TV and tune to C-Span Ch. and listen to what restrictionists OPENLY SAY TODAY (!!).
They OPENLY acknowledge that there is a serious threat , that ETHNIC minority (mostly Mexicans) MIGHT become a majority in this country by the year 2050 if no emergency measures are taken.
And that such demographic change would result in cultural catastrophy of unseen yet magnitute, and that it would mean the destruction of Western Civilization as it is known to all of us. That America will become Niger-ica or El Salva-merica by the year 2075...
So, they say, to avoid apocalipsis we must urgently deport anyone who hasn't yet got a chance to legalize here , plus we should shut the borders, declare moratorium on ALL kind of immigration (including family members), and maintain such policy for as long as it is nesessary ,in order to bring the numbers of foreign born nationals to certain minimum...
Plus, we should encourage and give all the incentives to our 'best breed' , so they can multiply.
Cause it is worrysome to see all those Mexican and other 'uneducated' women bear their children as a street cat, while well educated White woman (the best breed) waits for years to get her first child, and then doesn't want to have a second or third one..
2. History.
Historically when waves of immigrants came from Western Europe, no one was unhappy about it.
There was no worry about criminals, cost to society or anything.
Instead, Emma Lazarus through Statue of Liberty was ASKING to give her "your poor, desperate" and etc..
But, things changed drastically when EASTERN EUROPEANS started coming in large numbers ( yes, even WHITE EASTERN EUROPEANS weren't initially welcomed ).
There were claims that East Europeans ( Pols, Russians) are in general imbeciles when compared to their Western European brethern, and are source of higher crime, crooked life style, diseases and etc.
Do I have to remind you of thousands of Eastern Europen Jews that were turned back to Hitler's Nazis, during WWII, as NOT QUALIFYING for admission and refuge here???
And do I have to remind you of the Quota that was set in 20's ( first time in history) in responce to high numbers of Asian ( Indo-Chineese ) immigrant influx here?
I mean, there are some interesting chapters in history, and you can't just deny facts and things that have taken place in past.
Do you think it is totally unreasonable and illogical to draw any parallels and patterns from the past??
If so, why? ))
What is the purpose of studying the subject called 'History'?? ))
Finally, as mentioned above, I am copy-pasting my earlier responce to Native that answers to some of your concerns brought in your last post.
Good luck! Smile
_________________________
Native:
Yes we shall see what happens ImmoralE.
IE:
Of course, we shall see.. ))
"The only thing we know about future developments, is that they will develope".))
I also notice, unable to argue your case on merits, you resort to name calling? ))
But let me tell you: I like it when likes of YOU call me "IMMORAL-E" ))
It means I am saying something factually correct and you simply can't take it, it infuriates you because it goes against your destroy-and-distort-the-facts' method of arguing your points.. ))
So feel free to call me what you wish, I will take it as a compliment ))
Native:
You sure are a strange one.
IE:
Just because I expose your "dreams"? ))
Native:
Let's pick apart some of your post.
IE:
Let's do that ))
Native:
1.Neither I nor Aliba for that matter have claimed to speak for all Americans. If we could speak for them we wouldn't be having debates or differences of opinions.
IE:
Oh, really? Then why do you always keep saying "Most Americans are MAD, CRAZY" about immigrants and want them all out?
Then don't say "Americans want this and that...",
say I, Native or I, Aliba, hate those Mexicans and want to kick their b u t t s out of America.
And we won't come back to this question again ))
Native:
2. I have no insecurity regarding feelings of racism towards Mexicans.
IE:
Really? Then why are you so vehemently denying your being racist, and even mention having Latinos in your family? ))
Native:
3. I have not repeatedly claimed I have Latino's in my family. I mentioned it ONCE to show that argument is dead in the water.
IE:
You didn't, Aliba did. And I was addressing both you and HIM.
Second, just because you mentioned it once doesn't mean it is in dead water. Who do you take me for? ))
I could write here day and night against Afro-Americans and then, at the end of the day could claim that I am Afro-American too ( though I could have green skin like a frog).
Would that ONE claim send anything to "dead water"?
This is internet, my friend, so we have to rely on logic and consistency of your statements rather than what claims you made here just "ONCE" or even twice.. ))
Native:
It is a stupid claim to say people against illegal immigration are racist.
IE:
Nobody made such claim.
But if you pick certain group of people and target them for certain CIVIL violation, and call them all CRIMINALS ( which is De Jure incorrect) just because you can't tolerate them..
Then I am not surprised if others call you "racist"..
Native:
It is really stupid to say we are against Mexicans!!
IE:
Again this racial insecurity..))
And why do you decide for OTHERS what is stupid or smart for THEM to say? ))
Native:
I have enjoyed several trips to Mexico.
IE:
You may have enjoyed several 'mamacitas' on your trip to Mexico as well ))
What does it prove?? ))))
Native:
... I have a problem with them not going back,
IE:
I know that.. ))
Native:
..breaking the law, jumping the line and all the many other things I have already stated. It just so happens the main law breakers are from Mexico. You would be hearing the same thing from me if it were the Canadians.
IE:
I doubt that statement of yours about Canadians.
I studied US history a bit.
Whenever there was high level of Immigration from Western Europe ( or by people of WE origin), nobody called those poor, desperate people "Illegals", "Criminals" and so on..they were all welcomed by statue of liberty, (even called for!) , nobody advocated any restrictions on immigration, other than restrictions based on ones health and criminal background.
But as soon as waves came from Asia(China) or Mexico, suddenly everyone started talking of "bad immigration" and "bad, law breaking immigrants".
And in past, unlike now, that anti-immigration movement had openly displayed it's racist motives/sentiments.
Only in post Civil Rights era "racial" arguments sound politically incorrect, so that new ways of 'arguing' the case are devised, but it doesn't change the essence of it a bit.
Native:
Now regarding the rest of your missive..
IE:
"missive".. again you have to resort to demagoguery, in absence of facts to support your argument ))
Go ahead, as I said I take it as compliment from you ))
Native:
President Bush has limited power.
IE:
I doubt that statement of yours )))
Native:
His election had more to do with who middle Americans DIDN'T want in office. They turned out the vote in hopes he would bring back family values and
return the highest office in the land to the people (not Hollywood or New York types).
IE:
Hehehe... The way you try to spin discussion really amuses me.. ))
Native:
He can not be re-elected and he is losing a lot of his supporters over his stance on immigration. Yes, I did vote for him but prior to that I always voted Democrat.
IE:
So you are a lifelong Democrat who voted for Republican?
Hehe..))
I think next you are going to say that you are Mexican illegal immigrant who is against Mexican illegal immigrants.. Hehe..)))
Native:
ImmoralE,
IE:
))
Native:
..the intolerance comes from the numbers that are here and how they are touching American lives.
IE:
Intolerance comes from bigotry and prejudice.
There are ways and methods of dealing with any kind of problem (and eliminating it too), without becoming prejudiced, bigoted and intolerant.
Native:
Regarding the "criminal" tag on illegal aliens. Maybe we call them criminals because of their enormous COST on our society.
IE:
That is little overstretching the term "criminal", isn't it? ))
So, anything that has "COST on our society" is a CRIME?
Tomorrow I can say that cleaning of environment or funding of schools is a CRIME because it has COST on our society? ))
I don't get your logic.. ))
Native:
When you have your hand in my pocket that is a crime.
IE:
I don't have my hand in your or anyone's pocket, so next time instead of saying "YOU", define precisely whom you refer to.
Thank you.
Native:
When you spread TB in my country, that is a crime.
IE:
Again "YOU"...))
Well.. if you literally pick-up a bag full with TB bacillas and spread those around through pulverizator, then certainly it's a crime.
But only being physically SICK, being a suffering victim of the disease, doesn't make someone a CRIMINAL. Come on, you can make better woopers, can't you??.. )))
Second, not ALL illegal mexican immigrants are sick of TB. There are cases of TB among all different groups of people, because TB illness does not discriminate and choose it's target by immigration status or race.
Again, it's is demagoguery and distorting of facts, to blame ENTIRE group of illegal Mexican immigrants for ailings of few.
Besides, carrying infectious disease makes one applying for immigration benefit INADMISSIBLE.
Who argues that those applying for Immigration benefits shouldn't PAY FOR MEDICAL SCREENING, and who argues against deporting/not-admitting those who are SICK WITH INFECTIOUS DISEASE back, based on fact of their IN-ADMISSIBILITY??
Native:
When your education comes before my child's, that is crime.
IE:
No, I am sorry but you are simply misinforming everyone here! ))
I assume by "YOU", you refer to illegal children attending public schools.
Well, there is a Supreme Court desicion that ENTITLED
ALL CHILDREN REGARDLESS OF STATUS to free education in public schools.
So, by definition it is NOT A CRIME to obey Supreme Court orders.
Now, if you don't like the ruling LAW and the ruling of Highest Court in land, that's a different subject.
But don't call people who OBEY THE LAW CRIMINALS.
Native:
When you can get free medical care where some Americans stay sick because they can't afford medical insurance that is a crime.
IE:
Again, misinfo!
Any HUMAN BEING can get EMERGENCY MEDICAL CARE, and later billed for it IF THEY HAVE NO INSURANCE COVERAGE.
Now, if Mexican and American have NO INSURANCE COVERAGE, they both will get treated in Emergency room ( and ONLY in EMERGENCY room, in Emergency cases).
Later, they will get the bill.
Of course, the one who has NOTHING to pay for it will end up not being able to pay for it, and as far as I know there is no law that allows to put someone in jail and be labeled criminal for not having means to pay for Emergency Medical Services..
Your arguments are full of woopers, Native )))
Native:
When you manipulate fellow Americans into marrying you (for a GC),
IE:
"You...YOU...YOU !!" )))
Yes, that's a CRIME. And SO IT MUST BE PROSECUTED!
Just like when you go to rob the bank or murder someone. You must be prosecuted and punished for your CRIMES.
But what is the point of saying this in the context of Mexican illegal immigration issue?
Aren't there native murderers and thieves here?
Can someone say "you are CRIMINAL, because 1. you are a NATIVE and 2. there are robbers and murderers among NATIVES?"
Your statements are laughable.. ))
Native:
..that is a crime (especially so for those who have spouses back in Mexico).
IE:
Sure it's a CRIME, who argues against it?
See above!
Native:
When you take American jobs, that is a crime.
IE:
No, as far as I know, when you take a JOB it is neither CRIME nor FELONY (Or do you have a US Title, Section and Subsection to refer to and enlighten me?))
To falsefully claim to be a Citizen in job application or using false documets for the same IS a crime, but most Mexican Illegals are working under the table without claiming anything.
So, again you use your wide brush and paint them ALL in one color.
Very typical of you ))
Native:
When you acquire false documents and pass them as real American papers, that is a crime.
IE:
Yes, and as CRIMINAL you should be then prosecuted!
Without distinction of race, color and origin.
Native:
..When you get foodstamps, medicaid and benefit from social programs meant for poor Americans, that is a crime.
IE:
See above.
Native:
..When you fraudently vote in our elections, that is a crime.
IE:
Yes, if you do that you are a felon. And felons, as I said above, should be prosecuted without distinction of race, color and origin.
Native:
........ I could go on for hours but I don't have time right now. Just let me know if you want some more.
IE:
Yes, I too can open CRIME BOOKS and cite every CRIME on books, saying "Murder is Crime", "Stealing is Crime", "Rape is Crime" and so on for days and weeks..
But what is your point?
Or do you mean to say that all CRIMES are committed by illegal Mexicans only?
If not, then what is the point of citing all the conceivable crimes here?
CRIME is CRIME and as SUCH it should be prosecuted, without any distinction of RACE, COLOR and ORIGIN, whether you are Native or Mexican doesn't matter.
Do I have to repead it? ))
Native:
Oh, and the reason we are not discussing laws still on the books regarding mouth to gentalia affections between American spouses may have something to do with the fact that is not the nature of this forum.
IE:
Hehehe... So, you would discuss those laws and go after people engaging in o r a l s e x if this was a proper site for it?? )))
Hehehe...
You surely amuse me ))
Native:
If there was a way to deport them all with diginity and respect I would be all for it.
IE:
And what stands on your way of advocating deportation with dignity and respect ??
Native:
It is the ones who have been here the longest that I hold responsible.
IE:
What is the point of inserting this sentence which seems to be out of context here??
Native:
Around 20% of Mexico's population is wealthy. The rest are poor. They have no middle class.
Most of the in between groups made their homes here in the USA and never looked back.
IE:
There you explain why it happens )))
Native:
Those who had originally planned to just make enough money to go back and buy a house or start a business..and make Mexico prosper. They never did it. They need to made to go home. Yes, even ahead of the migrants because after living in America, they would not settle for Mexico in the state it is now.
IE:
So, if you are consistent in your logic, then we should locate all descendants of "Mayflower" and deport them ahead of everyone else )))
Do you support that idea?
If not, please explain WHY?? )))
Native:
Regarding the rest of your post. I would like to see you give a link when you make a claim.
Please start with this one:
{In FACT latest nationall polls demonstrate that Americans are NOT as mad about immigrants as Tancredo claims, and more than 50% of AMERICANS support Immigration Reform proposed by Bush.}
LET'S SEE WHO IS DISTORTING FACTS!
IE:
No problem!
I see you don't read press, not even the front page of ILW )))
Very typical of someone who always makes biased, factually incorrect claims))
Here is the first link:
http://www.ilw.com/search/documentFrame.asp?
Request=poll&nPage=1&sort=Date&MaxFiles=25&
Fuzzy=&Phonic=&Stemming=Yes&NaturalLanguage=
No&HitNum=9&cmd=getdoc&DocId=6177&Index=
%5c%5cilw%5cwwwroot%5cdtSearch%5cILW%20Web%
20site&HitCount=1&hits=c0+&hc=448&req=poll
Article
A National Survey Of Voter Attitudes On Immigration
National Immigration Forum and American Immigration Lawyers Association commissioned a poll which concludes there is strong and intense support among likely voters for an immigration reform proposal that is comprehensive and bipartisan [end quote].
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