Not all illegals are criminals

[Hudson]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SonofMichael:
Mohommad is the anti-Christ; this is a well documented fact and the teachings of all Christian and Jewish faiths. Even athiests who do not believe in God believe that Mohommad is the anti-Christ. Any devil worshipper; Moslem, Muslem, whatever must be killed and destroyed.

If you commit DUI, you are a criminal and should be killed to teach you a lesson.

Very few traffic violations are actually misdemeanors; they are violations. If whatever you do rises to the level of a misdemeanor, then you are a criminal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mohammad was a lot of things, but not the anti-Christ. The Rapture has not been performed according to the Scriptures. You want to try this again without mixing those purple pills and white pills that you are taking?

[Jeff]

Yes, illegal = criminal. It doesn't matter if it is a misdemeanor or a felony.

Misdemeanor - Law. a criminal offense defined as less serious than a felony.

Question: When you get a ticket for speeding you broke the law---Are you a criminal?

Answer: Yes, until you've completed restitution, you are a criminal. Whether it is jail, community service, a fine, etc, or in this case, you've returned to your home country, completed the ten year ban (or however many years it is), or whatever a judge has imposed.

[SonofMichael]

Very rarely will mere speeding be a misdemeanor. If you are drag racing or are exceeding the speed limit by a lot then it could become one. Someone going 70 on a 60 MPH is not a criminal but merely a traffic violater and will get a ticket; someone drag racing in a school zone at 120 MPH is committing a misdemeanor crime punishable by a jail sentence. Below Felony is a misdemeanor and below misdemeanor is a violation. Misdemeanors and Felonys are considered crimes. A person convicted of a misdemeanor is , IN FACT, considered a criminal. This is not a debatable poin, it is a definitional observation.

[Jeff]

Most traffic violations are treated as misdemeanors.

See: http://www.legalfish.com/traffic-violation-lawyers.htm

If you run a red light and are NOT caught, you are still a criminal. You can be sent a ticket in the mail weeks later, you can be found by a witness later etc. Even though you are not caught then and there you are a criminal until the statute of limitations runs out.
Example: If you embezzel from a company and are not caught right away, you are still a criminal, until the statute of limitations runs out. If you are caught, a charge would have to be filed, run it's course through the courts and a judge/jury would have to find you guilty or innocent. Although you are innocent until proven guilty, you still have a criminal account that must be answered to and either convicted of or expunged, by a judge/jury.

There is no statute of limitations on the act of becoming an illegal alien. Therefore you remain a criminal (until decided on by a judge).

[Someone12]

EVERY illegal is a criminal for just breathing the air in the United States of America..

[SonofMichael]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Someone12:
EVERY illegal is a criminal for just breathing the air in the United States of America.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

GIVE US BACK OUR AIR !!! ILLEGALS ARE STEALING OUR SWEET SMELL OF FREEDOM !!!

[SonofMichael]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jeff:
Most traffic violations are treated as misdemeanors.
See: http://www.legalfish.com/traffic-violation-lawyers.htm
. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your own site says the following; did you bother reading it?

Infractions

Most traffic violations fall into this category, including potentially harmless moving violations and non-moving violations. Conviction of an infraction usually results in a minor fine and rarely employs a jury trial. However, they are kept on a driver's record for several years and can have adverse effects on insurance rates.

Misdemeanors

A traffic violation qualifies as a misdemeanor if it harms or could potentially harm the well being of another. Examples of misdemeanors include drunk driving, driving on a suspended or revoked license, reckless driving, driving without proper insurance, and leaving the scene of an accident. Punishments for a traffic misdemeanor are exactly the same as any other misdemeanor: a fine, less than a year of incarceration, or both.

Felonies

Felonies are far more serious and are punishable by a year or more of incarceration. Traffic violations are felonies if the action kills, severely injures, or could potentially severely injure another. Examples of traffic felonies are "hit and run" violations, multiple DUI offenses, and the killing of another with a motor vehicle.

[chuck]

jeff----

Or amnesty/path to legalization. Sooner or later they will not be illegals as the Lou Dobb's of the world refer to the undocumented.

[Hudson]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jeff:
Yes, illegal = criminal. It doesn't matter if it is a misdemeanor or a felony.

Misdemeanor - Law. a criminal offense defined as less serious than a felony.

Question: When you get a ticket for speeding you broke the law---Are you a criminal?

Answer: Yes, until you've completed restitution, you are a criminal. Whether it is jail, community service, a fine, etc, or in this case, you've returned to your home country, completed the ten year ban (or however many years it is), or whatever a judge has imposed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So much for the 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments here. I guess Jeff never heard of due process.

[SonofMichael]

Misdemeanor, felonies and violations all require due process. Jeff did not say anything to indicate otherwise. Misdemeanants are, in fact, convicted criminals by definition. People who commit violations generally are not criminals by deinition but some violations can become misdemeanors if there are aggravated circumstances and then they do become criminals. Regardless, they all get due process.

I believe you may have the concept of standard of proof confused with due process. Procedural due process is essentially based on the concept of "fundamental fairness". As construed by the courts, it includes an individual's right to be adequately notified of charges or proceedings, and the opportunity to be heard at these proceedings. This is not at issue. At issue is how are crimes and violations different.

A conviction of a crime, felony or misdemeanor, requires beyond reasonable doubt standard. A conviction of a violation(ie. traffic, immigration) requires preponderance of the evidence (more than half but not beyond reasonable doubt).

So now this will start a whole new discussion I'm sure.

[Jeff]

Pullllleeeeease !

Ok...try this....you go to Best Buy, you steal a TV, you go out the door, to your car, you drive away. Are you a criminal? Of course! Are you a convicted criminal? No.

Of course you are entitled to due process, read my posts (again). I never suggested you aren't.

It is the same when you cross the border illegally (or you are here illegally). You are a criminal. You've done something illegal, you are a criminal, you have a criminal account that needs to be answered to... AND A JUDGE/JURY WILL DECIDE (like I've said) if you are guilty or innocent. An immigration judge (they do exist) will decide.

[whknapp]

Living illegally in the USA is a CIVIL OFFENSE, not a CRIME.

Defining the Terminology

Illegal Immigrant: Someone present in the country without authorization. People considered illegal immigrants can enter the United States in two ways: either by sneaking across the border, or by entering the country legally under a temporary visa but then failing to leave once their visa expires.

Legal Implications: Living in the United States illegally -- either by sneaking in or by overstaying a visa -- is a violation under the civil code, not the criminal code. However, illegal immigrants can be incarcerated as part of the deportation process. Sneaking across the border is currently a criminal misdemeanor that can result in six months in prison. Immigration legislation passed by the U.S. House in December would make it a felony to live in the United States without authorization.

( http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5303676 )

Q: Should overstaying a visa be considered a federal crime (vs. a civil offense)?

General Reference (not clearly pro or con)

The Congressional Research Service (CRS), in an 04/06/06 report entitled "Immigration Enforcement Within the United States," offered the following:

"The INA [Immigration and Nationality Act] includes both criminal and civil components, providing both for criminal charges (e.g., alien smuggling, which is prosecuted in the federal courts) and for civil violations (e.g., lack of legal status, which may lead to removal through a separate administrative system in the Department of Justice). Being illegally present in the U.S. has always been a civil, not criminal, violation of the INA, and subsequent deportation and associated administrative processes are civil proceedings. For instance, a lawfully admitted nonimmigrant alien may become deportable if his visitor's visa expires or if his student status changes. Criminal violations of the INA, on the other hand, include felonies and misdemeanors and are prosecuted in federal district courts. These types of violations include the bringing in and harboring of certain undocumented aliens, the illegal entry of aliens, and the reentry of aliens previously excluded or deported."
04/06/06, Congressional Research Service (CRS)

( http://www.immigrationprocon.org/que...imefelony.html )


What is the difference between a civil offense and a crime?

A civil offense is an infraction of a law that is not a crime. This may be something like a routine traffic offense such as speeding. The only penalty for a civil offense is a fine. A crime is a violation of the law that is punishable by a fine or a jail sentence. A Class Three or Class Four misdemeanor in Virginia is only punishable by a fine. These may be violations of noise ordinances or other offenses not involving injuries to other persons or their property. A Class One misdemeanor is punishable by up to 12 months in jail and a $2,500 fine. A Class Two misdemeanors are punishable by 6 months in jail and a $1,000 fine. Felonies are punishable by one or more years in prison and fines of up to $100,000.

( http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/c...ense_crime.htm )

[Jeff]

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.

Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.

SEE ALSO:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...tle=8&sec=1325

In civil law, there are two parties. One of the parties has been wronged by the other party. If this happens, the wronged party has the right to recourse in a court of law. The purpose of recourse is to create a situation similar to the one that existed before the wrong occurred.

In criminal law, there are also two parties. The wrongdoer, the accused or offender, and the victim. Criminal offenses are seen as actions against public interest. Therefore, it is in the interest of the state to prosecute criminal offenders. The purpose of punishment is twofold: it is a deterrent for others to act in a criminal manner, it is also intended as a form of rehabilitation.

[SonofMichael]

There are 2 seperate issues here. The act of entering the US without inspection (EWI)or overstaying are crimes (immigration violations and misdemeanors; can also be a felony if fraud). Merely 'being' in the US illegally is not a crime per se but the entrance or the misrepresentation is.

[Jeff]

Merely 'being' in the US illegally is not a crime per se but the entrance or the misrepresentation is.

The entrance or misrepresentaion conduct preceeds "being" in the US illegally. Therefore you are a criminal (but not a convicted criminal)

A bank robber (meaning you've already committed the criminal act) preceeds being a bank robber. Therefore you are a criminal (but not a convicted criminal)