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Where are the massive minute-men rally protesting against illegal???

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  • #16
    No, Ornela, I was refuting Jean's contention that I was an ignorant high school drop out.

    Ornela, you're the closed minded one. You're making assumptions about me based on my education. Do you think I didn't WORK for those degrees?! I didn't have wealthy influential relatives like Dubya does who'll pay my way in, and buy degrees for me. I didn't just buy pieces of paper either. I've worked minimum wage jobs, and I've worked as a research assistant, competing against foreign students for whom the poor wages were a step up and who were willing to put up with them in hopes of a green card. My family includes people who started out as janitors, a brother who works on the line at GM and is about to lose his job, and Hispanic nephews who are also in the same boat. In other words, I am from the working class, and have worked hard, both academically and physically, to achieve what I have. I'm lucky to have been born in a country where it was possible, but a big part of the reason it's been possible is because we have respect for the law.

    I have also lived and worked overseas, in developing countries, and am well aware of how hard it is. I'm also well aware of all the many people in countries far worse off than Mexico who would like to come here and are trying to do it legally. I've friends and former students in Turkey, Egypt, and Dubai and they have to jump through immigration hoops, pay high fees to attend school here legally IF they get in, and then find an employer to sponsor them.

    Perhaps you can answer a question for me. I've yet to get an answer. My Turkish students are especially bothered by the corruption and lack of transparency that exists in Turkey, and would like to come to the US. Just how do I tell them that THEY need to do it legally, when this country offers amnesty to people who have broken its laws, lived here and worked here illegally, and now figure they're entitled to become citizens? Do you have a good answer, because I sure don't. Or, should I tell them that the laws don't matter, that they'll find pretty much the same situation they had in Turkey?

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    • #17
      Marmaduk--It depends on what employment figures you go by. If you go by the new unemployment claims, unemployment is low. But if you consider work force participation, discouraged workers, and underemployed workers, it's high. It's also high in some fields. And, if you look at WHERE the jobs are being created, and what they pay, you'll find that good, middle class jobs are being replaced with low-wage unskilled ones in areas such as construction, retail, and "health care" (nurses aides and the like). And that many of THESE jobs are going to recent immigrants and illegal aliens. Furthermore, employers are using more part-time and temporary employees. And, of course, there are the layoffs. So, if you're a middle class American worker, with a mortgage and credit card debt, you're pretty nervous.

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      • #18
        I know Aliba, I'm just pointing out that the other side also have issues agreeing on something as well

        Like you said, unemployment claims might be dropping, but that doesn't take into consideration those who're no longer eligible for unemployment benefit. Dubya might tout one thing, but his presidency will always be remember as the one with negative job growth. Kinda hard to sell the guest worker idea when you have that hanging over your head.

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        • #19
          We are opening up several internment camps. You may want to report thesre to get the best accomodations and avoid being arrested on the street.

          Center 1: Long Island Internment Camp: Features Bingo Night on Tuesdays

          Center 2: Outside Phoenix: Features Hot Pepper Night every third Thursday of the month

          Center 3: Near San Diego: Features None

          Center 4: Near Dallas: Features TBD

          Good luck everyone !
          Buenos Dios

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          • #20
            So, true, Marm. Add to that a massive budget deficit, made worse by paying for the Iraq War, and our kids will be saddling one hell of a burden.

            My niece is graduating from college this year, a state university, with high loan debt even though she's been working. She's been told that the jobs situation is good, and actually believes it. Of course, her sister can't even get enough hours at her job to be considered "half-time", much less full-time, so I'm wondering where all these good jobs are that she's planning on to pay off her debt. I'll let you know how she does. I'm pretty sure she'll find it harder than she expects to get a job, much less one that pays enough and provides any kind of benefits.

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            • #21
              Yes there is a necessity for these illegals. The unemployed people are not willing to go cut grass, work on a farm, or wash the dishes. There are a lot of educated people that have been laid off, and they will not do these kinds of jobs. They will keep looking till they find something else.
              On the other hand these illegals are working as we speak, so even if they are legal they will still continue working the same kinds of jobs. No American likes to do these jobs so the illegals are not hurting us by filling up these jobs.
              And again I emphasize the economy is at its lowest point.

              Aliba the bill they are trying to pass ensures a guest worker program for these illegals. Based on this plan they will be able to apply for a green card after 11 years. During these 11 years the type of status that they will hold allows them to go to school if they wanted to, but they would have to pay international students' rates, just like your students coming in from Turkey. So maybe people overseas think is not fair because they have to wait in lines, but the government here needs to do something about these illegals due to the sense of urgency of securing our borders. We need to know who is in this country and the only way to do that is to give the illegal immigrants some kind of incentive to reveal themselves. You can't just send them all back home. How will you find them? The government is not going to knock door to door to look for illegal aliens.
              There are two sides to any issue. Some people agree with it and some don't. Maybe this will not be fair to people waiting for visas, but it will help this country. So they have to pass a law that will benefit United States and I think the bill they are trying to pass will benefit all of us.

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              • #22
                Ornela, unemployed Americans would do those jobs IF THEY PAID ENOUGH. An agency provided Black workers from the hurricane-affected areas to do the clean up for $10 an hour. After a couple of weeks, the contractor canned them to hire illegal aliens who would work for $7. (No telling if they were paying taxes or SS, either.) To top it off, many of the contractors are stiffing the illegal aliens they've hired.

                I agree that it's not feasible to deport everyone or even most, but the sticking point is how do we prevent MORE illegal aliens from coming. We were told in 1986 that we'd have 300,000 applying for amnesty. 3 MILLION got it.
                Now, we're told maybe 11 or 12 million (not counting the family members they would be eligible to bring), but it could go maybe as high as 20 million--20 years after being told that the government would enforce the law to prevent illegal immigration. In other words, amnesty without enforcement adds to the number of illegal aliens, and solves nothing. Given our previous experiences with lying politicians, we expect ENFORCEMENT to precede any guest worker program or amnesty. If government can't prove it has the will and the ability to enforce immigration laws FIRST, then no one should get amnesty.

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                • #23
                  That's a whole different issue. The goverment needs to stop further illegal immigration, otherwise they will have a problem in the future. They will need to closely monitor the border once they legalize the people who are already here. There is a lot of people out there that want to come in United States and US can't take them all. They will keep coming and they will try to cross the border until they find out that they can't.
                  I agree with the fact that this and the amnesty go hand in hand.
                  The government needs to figure out something quick because every day thousands of people keep coming here.

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                  • #24
                    It's not just the southern border, either. About half of illegal aliens are visa overstays. The government has an entry/exit tracking program it's been dragging its feet on.

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                    • #25
                      I have the solution! Lets invade from mexico all the way to the panama canal so all those central americans wont keep crossing our border....

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                      • #26
                        Ornela, unemployed Americans would do those jobs IF THEY PAID ENOUGH. An agency provided Black workers from the hurricane-affected areas to do the clean up for $10 an hour. After a couple of weeks, the contractor canned them to hire illegal aliens who would work for $7. (No telling if they were paying taxes or SS, either.) To top it off, many of the contractors are stiffing the illegal aliens they've hired.

                        I agree that it's not feasible to deport everyone or even most, but the sticking point is how do we prevent MORE illegal aliens from coming. We were told in 1986 that we'd have 300,000 applying for amnesty. 3 MILLION got it.
                        Now, we're told maybe 11 or 12 million (not counting the family members they would be eligible to bring), but it could go maybe as high as 20 million--20 years after being told that the government would enforce the law to prevent illegal immigration. In other words, amnesty without enforcement adds to the number of illegal aliens, and solves nothing. Given our previous experiences with lying politicians, we expect ENFORCEMENT to precede any guest worker program or amnesty. If government can't prove it has the will and the ability to enforce immigration laws FIRST, then no one should get amnesty.
                        Throwing money will not solve the problem here. Most African Americans will not do the work since it reminds them from the days of slavery. Most caucasians will not let their sons and daughters do the work because it would be degrading. The same will go with most Asians. Those who are on SSDI, SSI, and other forms of welfare will not do the job because it will require work. And then you have the jews. Well, considering you are an Arab, I guess this is the work Jews should only participate in.

                        Finally, menial jobs require little to now job skills. Most of these jobs are performed by either teenagers or college students. Only 10% are performed by people who have families. The job market is about skill, the availibility of skill, and where those resources are located. But increasing the minimum wage will not be the answer. You will have to deal with the increase pay that will be affected by the highly skilled jobs and the high demand jobs. And you will have to deal with an increased unemployment rate.

                        "One final thought about poverty. While it is natural to have sympathy for our fellow citizens who work at low-wage jobs and still live in poverty, we should remember that our notion of poverty is relative. Using U.S. Census data, Heritage Foundation scholars examined the living standards of poor Americans and found that the average poor American has a car, air conditioning, at least one color television along with cable or satellite TV, a home that is in decent condition and enough food in the refrigerator.[6] Poverty in America, especially for those who do not work, is less a matter of material deprivation than of emotional and spiritual loss, the pervading worry that comes from knowing that one is dependent on the arcane determinations of state and federal bureaucrats, and the loss of self esteem that comes from knowing that one is not self-sufficient."
                        Paul Kersey, Visiting Professor at Bradley University.
                        "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre

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                        • #27
                          And then you have the jews. Well, considering you are an Arab, I guess this is the work Jews should only participate in.
                          Would expect that from the trolls, but gotta say I really didn't expect it to come from someone like Hudson.

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                          • #28
                            the american people have spoken and they are saying " give the mexicans green cards"

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