Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ride for Legalization, the inevitable can only be delayed, not denied - we believe that a massive le

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Sks, Thanks for the thorough and thoughtful response.I'll say up front that you sound like you are a very good teacher. When you speak in terms of teaching, you come accross much nicer, not nearly as arrogant and condescending.I do however have a few things I didn't quite aggree with.(suprise!!)

    [Yes, I tell them that Dr. King would probably be very supportive of people fighting for the right NOT to be exploited. I think Dr. King would be against slavery today, wouldn't you??]

    I don't think this is an accurate analogy. Slaves were brought here against their will. The illegals come because they want to. Slaves could not leave. Illegals WILL NOT leave.So if someone is here of their own free will, and working at an AGREED upon wage, and is free to leave any time they tire of the arangement, how does that rise to the level of slavery?? If they would have a college education and could only get a job mowing lawns because they were an immigrant, then you could say they are exploited.This is one of the main points I believe we differ on, and one of the ones I feel is important. While people hiring illegals are getting cheaper labor, that is only so because the illegals will work for less. If they wouldn't, and these jobs had to be done, the employer would have to pay more.But because of the immigrant working for less, a third party is drawn into this arangement. The taxpayer who pays all the related costs for poor people. And the taxpayer is the ONLY one here without a choice. So I think THAT is the person who is being exploited here.While it is part of the American way to care for the poor, this is poverty that doesn't have to be here.

    [And just what are they learning?? Well, for starters, they are learning that in order to be good leaders they have to actually lead!! The immigration issue points out how our policymakers, on many occasions, fail to confront issues. I challenge my students to think critically, What would they do if they were president?? Why hasn't our government done anything to confront this issue head on???]

    I couldn't agree with you more on this part.

    [ Why does our government allow illegal immigrants certain things (ie: in-state tuition) if they are here illegally?? You know, questions you don't like to answer .]

    It's not that I don't like to answer this, I DON"T KNOW why .I would like to know the answer to that .

    [Janiss, I'm curious. You stated before that if somebody came out against immigration, they would be elected easily. I ask, WHY HASN'T ANY CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR OF CA COME OUT AND SAY THEY'LL ORDER MASSIVE DEPORTATIONS ]

    I still think this is true. And I think they are afraid of being labled racist. Although Ahhhnald has said he would stop the drivers liscense bill and have police enforce immigration laws. That is why Republicans are holding their noses and voting for him.What he and others fail to realize is that for some reason people won't say that they will vote for someone , or some bill that will start denying services. But they will say they want those things to happen. So I think the politicans probably take the safer route. What's ironic is, just like with prop. 187 and 227, they WILL vote for those things.I guess there hasn't been a politician bright enough to figure it out.

    Comment


    • #47
      janiss, are these kind words I see??


      "Sks, Thanks for the thorough and thoughtful response.I'll say up front that you sound like you are a very good teacher."

      AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH Schucks. You're making me blush.

      "When you speak in terms of teaching, you come accross much nicer, not nearly as arrogant and condescending."

      Janiss and her silly little opinions, you know I'm always right.

      "I do however have a few things I didn't quite aggree with.(suprise!!)"

      What would another day be without disagreements!!

      "I don't think this is an accurate analogy.
      Slaves were brought here against their will. The illegals come because they want to. Slaves could not leave. Illegals WILL NOT leave.So if someone is here of their own free will, and working at an AGREED upon wage, and is free to leave any time they tire of the arangement, how does that rise to the level of slavery??"

      It is more along the lines of exploitation. For instance I know, here in LA, people can find many homeless and illegal immigrants and offer them a job for almost nothing, force them to work extremely long hours and in terrible conditions. But does that make it ok if they agree to it?? No, because we have laws set up so nobody is treated unfairly. ALL people are entitled a certain amount of basic human rights.

      A nephew of mine once had a job where he agreed not to take a lunch break. He was ok with it and his immediate surpervisor was ok with it. However, when the "higher ups" found out, he almost got fired because he HAD to have a break, according to our labor laws. The point I am making is that just because somebody agrees to work in a bad environment doesn't make it ok because some of the people might be taken advantage of because of their mental capacity, the don't have an education and don't know better, or are extremely poor and don't have any other choice. Furthermore, what makes it worse is when employers know these people need this job to live, can coax them into anything out of fear of deportation, and basically make them work in any environment. That is illegal.


      "If they would have a college education and could only get a job mowing lawns because they were an immigrant, then you could say they are exploited.This is one of the main points I believe we differ on, and one of the ones I feel is important."

      That isn't exactly being exploited, that is prejudice, which is also against our laws.


      "While people hiring illegals are getting cheaper labor, that is only so because the illegals will work for less. If they wouldn't, and these jobs had to be done, the employer would have to pay more."

      You got it kind of backwards. Are the businesses forced to hire undocumented immigrants?? Is there a gun to their head?? Aren't they the ones to blame for hiring undocumented immigrants at low prices?? The blame for hiring illegal immigrants lies squarely on the heads of the businesses, and not the other way around.

      "But because of the immigrant working for less, a third party is drawn into this arangement."

      No, no, no. Because the BUSINESS hires the immigrant causes a third party to be drawn into picture. Not the other way around. That is a problem I have with your logic. The Immigrants hire themselves?? What culpability do businesses have?? If they don't hire illegals at low prices, the prices stay the same, right?? Again, are they FORCED to hire undocumented workers??

      If businesses in CA and elsewhere aren't hiring undocumented workers, that would have a major impact on immigration; but you and I know that will never happen because businesses only care about the bottom line. THEY are just as criminal as the immigrants right?? THEY don't give a rats A$$ about taxpayers and society, as long as they are making a profit, it's all good to them............God Bless America.


      "The taxpayer who pays all the related costs for poor people. And the taxpayer is the ONLY one here without a choice. So I think THAT is the person who is being exploited here.While it is part of the American way to care for the poor, this is poverty that doesn't have to be here."

      As far as the business side goes, HALF of the problem lies with them, wouldn't you agree?? Then focus HALf of your anger at them as well.

      But the poverty is here.........

      "It's not that I don't like to answer this, I DON"T KNOW why .I would like to know the answer to that."

      Therein is where the problem lies..........


      "I still think this is true. And I think they are afraid of being labled racist."

      That is what I said before political suicide, see my point now!!!???

      "Although Ahhhnald has said he would stop the drivers liscense bill and have police enforce immigration laws."

      Perhaps, but Arnold also said he is in favor of giving illegal immigrant children healthcare yesterday at the debate!! Is that a contradiction??


      "What he and others fail to realize is that for some reason people won't say that they will vote for someone , or some bill that will start denying services."

      Why?? If the "vast" majority of Americans ("85%")are against all that you say, then who are they afraid of, a small minority??

      "So I think the politicans probably take the safer route."

      Thus, immigrants will remain here and become more a part of our society!!

      "What's ironic is, just like with prop. 187 and 227, they WILL vote for those things."

      Yet those things will be ruled unconstitutional, at least 187, because we can't deny services. Moreover, Prop. 227, don't get me started on that. Lets just say, it was passed. That had nothing to do with denying services to immigrants, and there are still ESL classes...........

      "I guess there hasn't been a politician bright enough to figure it out."

      Oh no, I'm sure they all know the score. Arnold even voted on 187, at least that is what is reported. They figured it out, but they also figured out it would be political suicide and would definitely alienate not only immigrant voters (those who are naturalized) but also those who believe we need to help immigrants.

      Comment

      Sorry, you are not authorized to view this page

      Home Page

      Immigration Daily

      Archives

      Processing times

      Immigration forms

      Discussion board

      Resources

      Blogs

      Twitter feed

      Immigrant Nation

      Attorney2Attorney

      CLE Workshops

      Immigration books

      Advertise on ILW

      EB-5

      移民日报

      About ILW.COM

      Connect to us

      Questions/Comments

      SUBSCRIBE

      Immigration Daily



      Working...
      X