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  • Ride for Legalization, the inevitable can only be delayed, not denied - we believe that a massive le

    read this link.
    I will post the actual news too.

    http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/lo...259955,00.html



    Activists take to road for immigration reform
    By Javier Erik Olvera, Rocky Mountain News
    September 15, 2003

    A coalition fighting for better treatment of illegal immigrants plans to crisscross the country to build momentum for its movement.

    The effort, reminiscent of the 1960s civil rights freedom rides, will begin Sept. 20 with 20 buses departing from nine cities.


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    Riders on four buses will stop in Denver on Sept. 26 to talk to area activists about why immigration law should be overhauled.

    "This is intended to expose injustices . . . that can be fixed through immigration reform," said David Koff, spokesman for the ride.

    Specifically, the group wants legalization for the estimated 10 million undocumented immigrants living in the United States, stronger rights for workers, and the right for their families to move here.

    The journey - called the Immigrant Workers Freedom Ride - mushroomed from a discussion about two years ago at a labor union meeting in Southern California.

    Hundreds of activists, civic leaders, church organizations, politicians and union officials have since thrown their support behind the journey and movement.

    Among the list of supporters are actors James Cromwell, Martin Sheen, Susan Sarandon, George Lopez and contemporary philosopher Noam Chomsky.

    About 800 people will ride the buses, which will depart from Boston, Chicago, Houston, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Minneapolis, San Francisco and Seattle/Portland.

    They will stop in almost 100 cities, most of which are in the central and southern portions of the country where illegal immigrant populations are high.

    The ride will end on the East Coast, with congressional meetings scheduled in Washington, D.C., on Oct. 3 and a rally in New York City on Oct. 4 at Queens' Flushing Meadows Park, which pays tribute to immigrants.

    A festival will follow the rally, according to the ride's Web site, www.iwfr.org.

    Leslie Moody, who is organizing the group's Denver stop, is hopeful the ride will help build an alliance among activists, community groups, churches, civic organizations and politicians.

    "This is about basic dignity and human rights," she said.

    olveraj@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-892-5113


    YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE
    Its a discussion, not a legal advise..

  • #2
    read this link.
    I will post the actual news too.

    http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/lo...259955,00.html



    Activists take to road for immigration reform
    By Javier Erik Olvera, Rocky Mountain News
    September 15, 2003

    A coalition fighting for better treatment of illegal immigrants plans to crisscross the country to build momentum for its movement.

    The effort, reminiscent of the 1960s civil rights freedom rides, will begin Sept. 20 with 20 buses departing from nine cities.


    Advertisement




    Riders on four buses will stop in Denver on Sept. 26 to talk to area activists about why immigration law should be overhauled.

    "This is intended to expose injustices . . . that can be fixed through immigration reform," said David Koff, spokesman for the ride.

    Specifically, the group wants legalization for the estimated 10 million undocumented immigrants living in the United States, stronger rights for workers, and the right for their families to move here.

    The journey - called the Immigrant Workers Freedom Ride - mushroomed from a discussion about two years ago at a labor union meeting in Southern California.

    Hundreds of activists, civic leaders, church organizations, politicians and union officials have since thrown their support behind the journey and movement.

    Among the list of supporters are actors James Cromwell, Martin Sheen, Susan Sarandon, George Lopez and contemporary philosopher Noam Chomsky.

    About 800 people will ride the buses, which will depart from Boston, Chicago, Houston, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Minneapolis, San Francisco and Seattle/Portland.

    They will stop in almost 100 cities, most of which are in the central and southern portions of the country where illegal immigrant populations are high.

    The ride will end on the East Coast, with congressional meetings scheduled in Washington, D.C., on Oct. 3 and a rally in New York City on Oct. 4 at Queens' Flushing Meadows Park, which pays tribute to immigrants.

    A festival will follow the rally, according to the ride's Web site, www.iwfr.org.

    Leslie Moody, who is organizing the group's Denver stop, is hopeful the ride will help build an alliance among activists, community groups, churches, civic organizations and politicians.

    "This is about basic dignity and human rights," she said.

    olveraj@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-892-5113


    YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE
    Its a discussion, not a legal advise..

    Comment


    • #3
      If we actually do have that many undocumented people living over here illegally and maybe more, why not legalize them? If they are already here, then why not? I would feel safer knowing they are here legally than not. I also think that their stay here would be a lot less stressful for them and then they would be more willing to contribute to our society with their talents and skills more openly, especially when they feel they are accepted and a part of that society.

      I think this is going to be a very interesting journey. I do hope that you will keep us updated.

      Thanks Mohan!

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree that something has to be done. I think that people on both sides of the immigration issue would agree that the current system is failing to carry out it's duties.
        What really gets to me is the children. Children who are illegally brought to the United States as minors and raised here should receive thier permanent residence upon highschool graduation. Many of these kids have gone through the American school system and see themselves first and foremost as Americans. They read, write, and speak English fluently. They know more about Jefferson and Lincoln than they do about Hidalgo and Morelos. They cannot be forced to pay for the mistakes of thier parents. My little neice reads English better than she does Spanish. She told me herself that she likes English better. She would much rather watch Nikolodean than Univision. She is such a bright, beautiful child. She is an American girl. She deserves to stay in the country she grew up in. She can't even remember Mexico. It is just a place that her parents tell stories about; a distant part of her heritage. I hope that by the time she is 18, she will be able to live proudly and not have to fear. She will be free to go to college and get her driver licens, get a part-time job after school at a burger joint. She deserves to be able to do these things.

        Comment


        • #5
          That's precisely the kind of thinking that led to the 1986 amnesty. The amnesty didn't stop illegal immigration, and only added to the stream of both legal and illegal immigration afterward. In case you're wondering why our immigration system is so clogged, that amnesty and subsequent ones such as 245i are a big part of it.

          Furthermore, I have friends who have tried to come legally for years. They're educated, speak English, and have the resources to support themselves, yet they can't get a visa. Meantime, we're supposed to reward those who break our laws with an amnesty, not only for themselves but such members of their families as they choose to bring. As for children here illegally, well, their parents chose for them and they chose badly. But I don't see it as our responsibility to hand out amnesty as a reward for their parents' bad behavior. Then, too, I have Hispanic/Native American nephews who are high school graduates and work unskilled jobs. One's joining the army to get a college education. I see no point in encouraging even more illegal immigration to compete with them for jobs, or giving illegal alien children access to a college education that my nephews pay for with their tax dollars, and when one will have to compete with them for limited spaces and financial aid.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello, ace......err.......aliba. You seem a little more intelligent than acelaw, unless that is you alter-ego!!


            "That's precisely the kind of thinking that led to the 1986 amnesty. The amnesty didn't stop illegal immigration, and only added to the stream of both legal and illegal immigration afterward."


            Well, without strengthening our border at the same time it isn't that good an idea. An amnesty plus a "real" strengthening of our border would have worked much better. But, here we are today.......

            "In case you're wondering why our immigration system is so clogged, that amnesty and subsequent ones such as 245i are a big part of it."

            Ok, you don't like the idea of an amnesty, but please don't be like acelaw and others who complain and complain. What do you offer as a viable solution??? Don't just address an issue, and not offer a solution!!


            "They're educated, speak English, and have the resources to support themselves, yet they can't get a visa."

            Why??

            "Meantime, we're supposed to reward those who break our laws with an amnesty, not only for themselves but such members of their families as they choose to bring."

            Reward?? Reward with what?? With 245(i) they had to pay numerous fees and a fine, that's some reward!! Aren't many of our laws punishable by fine??



            "As for children here illegally, well, their parents chose for them and they chose badly. But I don't see it as our responsibility to hand out amnesty as a reward for their parents' bad behavior."

            Again with the reward..........Yes their parents brought them here, through no fault of their own. I fail to see how the CHILDREN are considered "criminals" because they are brought here illegaly, having nothing to do with it.

            It is an irrelevent point anyway, they are here and here to stay.................just reality.

            "Then, too, I have Hispanic/Native American nephews who are high school graduates and work unskilled jobs. One's joining the army to get a college education."

            Good for him, I don't see illegal immigrants making it tough for him to join the service!!

            "I see no point in encouraging even more illegal immigration to compete with them for jobs, or giving illegal alien children access to a college education that my nephews pay for with their tax dollars,"

            Who is encouraging illegal immigration??

            Illegal immigrant children have always had access to a college education, what do you mean?? You blame illegal immigrants for being allowed in college?? sound to me like you have an issue with our POLICY!! Even if there were no illegal immigrants, your nephews would still have to pay for college...

            "and when one will have to compete with them for limited spaces and financial aid."

            Limited spaces, for what?? Being in education for several years, I've never heard of any of my many students having an application denied because of an illegal immigrant.

            Financial aid?? Illegal immigrants can't get federal grants, or federal loans, at least not since I last checked. As far as state grants, I believe a person must be a CA resident. In any case, who do you blame for this educational policy of allowing illegal immigrants "financial aid" and access to college, the immigrant or the universities and government policy??

            I find it funny when many people moan and groan that immigrants are "uneducated" and "unskilled." Yet, when they want to further their education to get out of the cycle of poverty, they meet with even more resistance!! You would think people would encourage them to succeed, so as to alleviate their poverty...................


            Oh, I know, they shouldn't be here..............sorry, forgot. So lets do nothing and continue to complain, while nothing gets solved..

            Comment


            • #7
              Every time an illegal alien is able to get a job, an education for his illegal alien children, and build a life here, that encourages more illegal immigrants to come, because there is no obvious downside. Why not come illegally when the worst that will happen is you're deported at US expense? Why bother with paperwork, and waiting for years, when you can get visitor's visa (fraudulently) or just cross the border?

              If illegal aliens go to college, fine--but let them go at their own expense. No in-state tuition, which is not available to citizens. No federal or state-funded aid. The DREAM Act, which you seem unaware of, would "legalize" any illegal alien child who graduated from a US high school and give them access to everything available to citizens (something foreign students don't get, by the way). A group in Illinois is lobbying Northwestern and other private universities to fund illegal alien students, even though the universities could pay for 3 legal students with the money one illegal would take (the schools' aid is supplemented with state and federal funds). Spaces and money for college are in short supply--why should American citizens such as my nephews have to compete for either with illegal aliens? VA, for example, has had a large number of illegal and legal alien children enter its schools in the past few years. The State is projecting a shortfall of several thousand college seats for these students in a few years because the money simply isn't there.

              Illegal aliens are NOT immigrants. They are interlopers who made a unilateral decision to enter our country. Why should we finance the education and skills of illegal aliens, who have already shown the willingness to break our laws when it suits them, when we can get legal immigrants who already have shown their abilities and received their training in their homelands? And, who respected our laws? Yeah, I know, the old argument that illegal alien children are innocent victims. Well, if they've been here that long, they and their parents have had opportunities to legalize, but haven't had the basis for it. If they've only been here a few years, as is often the case, there's no reason they can't return to their homelands for an education or apply to come here legally. In fact, the ostensible point of foreign students in our universities was that they take our values and skills they learn here back to their homelands. Then, too, if an illegal alien child is really so brilliant, so talented, there are plenty of private institutions that would pay the freight. Finally, the reason usually given for having large number of illegals is that we need their (unskilled) labor. Fine. Let their kids who are here illegally continue the tradition.

              Comment


              • #8
                SKS asked what I'd do. Nothing unusual. Simply enforce existing laws. There are already federal laws on the books requiring aliens to register, and to carry proof of immigration status. There are also forfeiture laws (I believe a fine of up to $500 a day)--which the bank accounts illegal aliens are opening, and the houses they're buying, would make easy to collect. There's also a bill in Congress, the CLEAR Act, which is supposed to make it easier for state and local authorities to assist federal authorities in enforcing immigration law. Open borders groups are lobbying against it, which suggests they're afraid it might work.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Aliba, you're joking right???

                  "Simply enforce existing laws. There are already federal laws on the books requiring aliens to register, and to carry proof of immigration status."

                  So, immigration has been the same for the last 20 years??? WHY aren't we enforcing them now??? WHY?


                  "There are also forfeiture laws (I believe a fine of up to $500 a day)--which the bank accounts illegal aliens are opening, and the houses they're buying, would make easy to collect."

                  WHY aren't we doing it, and why haven't we done it, WHY?

                  "There's also a bill in Congress, the CLEAR Act, which is supposed to make it easier for state and local authorities to assist federal authorities in enforcing immigration law. Open borders groups are lobbying against it, which suggests they're afraid it might work."

                  So are many in the law enforcement community..... This law would be very counterproductive..


                  So let me get something straight........

                  For those living here, you want to enforce existing laws?? HOW? WHEN? When will I see BP agents rounding up known illegals?

                  So, then, you are not in favor of any NEW laws in dealing with our southern Border. If you are ok with existing laws, then you are opposed to the military on the border and an increase in border security??

                  You are ok with the present state of affairs??

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    people are normally mistaken by legal immigration family equty act (LIFE) (245i) with amnesty. Proof is mentioned above. its not amnesty in the first place.

                    Just inforcing Law will not solve our problem. Our Immigration didnot allow us to deport illegals right away. YES it allow us to put alien into deportation proceeding,Or i called new name removal proceedings. You can't just pick up any illegal and put them in flight to deport them, They are and will not be deported unless they exhausted by the law. and it takes years to get it and go thru this legal limbo.

                    Do deport them in mass deportation, congress has to come up with new bill OR to amend the existing one to the extend that illegal alien will be deportable when caught. Will it happend? I doubt that.
                    Find another solution.
                    Its a discussion, not a legal advise..

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Coalition? Immigration? Legislation? Legalization? What a waist of time and money...The truth is that this is big business in America and most people are unaware of what truly this country is all about. FREEDOM... Free to come and free to go...That is it!
                      That is the solution. Open the borders... Allow immigrants for freedom to work and earn a living, prosper, and pay taxes. Let people be free to speak any language(s)or marry anyone they wish to love. Why marry a USC? Marry whoever you want and stay as long as you desire...Be free to buy and sell property at will. Forget enacting laws that control peoples freedom. Every law that is passed is one more freedom we loose. Enough laws already in the books. Laws should be prosecute for criminals. People who are doing wrong to society by stealing and killing, etc. Lets stop being foolish, and start welcoming people to this country with love and open arms, so they may enjoy what we enjoy thanks to our immigrant founders. Lets all be free, and let freedom be the solution for all this non-sense.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        SKS--You're right--govt hasn't been enforcing immigration laws strictly which is why we have the mess we have now. But you're saying because they haven't done it in the past, they can't and shouldn't do it in the future? That Congress should just say, "OK, we've ignored illegal immigration for years, so we'll just keep on ignoring it, or keep giving amnesties to people who break our laws." In fact, it's precisely people with your attitude who contribute to the mess.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Onetimer--And what happens when those "free" people come here and can't find a job, or don't want to find a job, or get laid off, or have medical problems? Think they're going to leave? As long as we provide services and benefits at taxpayer expense, people from countries that do not offer these will come, whether or not they can find work that will not only support them and their families, but enable them to carry their fair share of taxes. Many of our recent legal and illegal immigrants have few or no skills and little education--which is precisely why so many live in poverty here. But poverty here is better than where they came from.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And I've taught at the college level for years. The number of students admitted gets cut, because funds aren't available. Classes get cut, because funds aren't available. Faculty doesn't get hired, or gets laid off, because funds aren't available. Students pay higher tuition, because funds aren't available. An illegal alien in college under those conditions is getting an education at the expense of citizen children.

                            Today, California's legislature just passed a bill subsidizing illegal immigrants. They'll get free tuition at CA's community colleges while citizens will now see a tuition increase. Citizens and legal residents are subsidizing the education of illegal aliens.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              SKS asked why laws haven't been enforced. In large part, it's because of people with his/her attitude--they're here, so why go to the trouble? Let Congresspeople and public officials cater to special interests--businesses that want cheap labor, ethnic advocates that want political power, politicians who want ethnic votes, religious groups that want members. No matter that most US citizens believe immigration levels should be reduced, and illegal immigrants deported.

                              Vested interests can get away with ignoring the public because the will of the public isn't mobilized the way those of special interests are. Most of us have issues of more pressing concern (like earning our next pay check or coaching the kids' little league) than opposing and fighting something that doesn't impact us clearly and directly. I've always been interested in immigration, particularly Arab immigration, because I grew up in a Lebanese-American community in Michigan. But it's only recently that I've had a problem with it, since my engineer brother was laid off while 600 H1-B civil engineers were being employed in his state, at less than what an engineer fresh out of college was starting at.

                              Comment

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