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  • #31
    SKS--I am not related to Acelaw. However, he and I share the same views as the majority of Americans.

    Mohan made comments and asked for a response. He got it, one most Americans would agree with. As for your response to my comments, never once did I say illegal immigrants were the cause of all our problems, or that Americans weren't on welfare, committing crimes, etc. In fact, it's precisely because we have so many problems of our own that we don't need to import more. Illegal aliens divert resources from dealing with our homegrown problems. You say you're a teacher--well, how much better would schools be if they didn't have to provide educations to every child who stepped off an airplane or crossed the border illegally. This morning I read about a young woman from Mali, who came here last year and was living with her aunt and uncle, quite possibly illegally. She was attending high school here, in her senior year, when she was killed by her boyfriend, also from Mali. I believe on this board, a Greek family said they came on a visitors' visa almost 3 years ago, and have kids in school here. Just how many of these kids are we supposed to continue to pay for? What happens when communities, many of low wage immigrants and illegal aliens, can't afford to pay for their schools? Don't pay taxes? When class sizes go through the roof, and there's no money for basics, much less computers? When American children are short-changed because the teacher has to spend most of her time trying to help children who have never been to school in their homelands, have been traumatized by poverty or war, or simply can't speak English? Or when we senior citizens decide not to pay more taxes because we no longer have kids in the schools?

    As for not needing to deport illegal aliens, ask the Pakistani community in New York how many have left homes, jobs, businesses to seek asylum in Canada or return home because they feared deportation. Thousands. Or look at what happened when immigration arrested five illegals near the Mexcian consulate in a city in California--suddenly all the illegals were afraid to go to work, go to school, etc. It doesn't take much--what's missing is the commitment by government. And even that seems to be getting stronger.

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    • #32
      Mohan--You apparently weren't here a couple of years ago when groups such as La Raza were lobbying to get the residency requirements for welfare reduced to nothing. They were also lobbying for legalization at the same time. In other words, legalized illegal aliens would have been able to go on welfare immediately.

      "Welfare" also includes programs for which there is no time limit, e.g. Medicaid.

      Comment


      • #33
        SKS--By the way, forgot to mention that my niece in Houston was being kept in a largely-Hispanic class because they needed someone who spoke English. The teacher wouldn't even test her for advanced placement because of this. My sister-in-law, also a teacher, has yanked her from public schools and has put her in a private one, where she's excelling. My sister-in-law speaks German (her parents were German), but now my niece has really been put off foreign languages because of her earlier experience. The point: the earlier teacher didn't have the best interests of ALL her students at heart, just the "politically correct" necessity of having an English-speaker to help the Hispanic students learn English.

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        • #34
          aliba, I must admit you do seem more pleasant than acelaw.

          "I am not related to Acelaw. However, he and I share the same views as the majority of Americans."

          I have agreed as well with some of the issues he brings up, yet unlike him, I believe it is time to find a viable solution, don't you?


          "In fact, it's precisely because we have so many problems of our own that we don't need to import more. Illegal aliens divert resources from dealing with our homegrown problems."

          That is something that has been addressed millions of times already................. what do we do then is the question???


          "You say you're a teacher--well, how much better would schools be if they didn't have to provide educations to every child who stepped off an airplane or crossed the border illegally."

          How much better??? We would still have the same problems, test scores would still be low!! Again, I don't see how the illegal immigrant sitting next to the citizen in my class causes the citizen to fail.....

          "This morning I read about a young woman from Mali, who came here last year and was living with her aunt and uncle, quite possibly illegally."

          Is that speculation??


          "She was attending high school here, in her senior year, when she was killed by her boyfriend, also from Mali."

          What does that have to do with your point??


          "I believe on this board, a Greek family said they came on a visitors' visa almost 3 years ago, and have kids in school here. Just how many of these kids are we supposed to continue to pay for?"

          Didn't the Supreme Court rule that education for illegals was allowed?? If so, shouldn't you be just as outraged at them as well??


          "What happens when communities, many of low wage immigrants and illegal aliens, can't afford to pay for their schools? Don't pay taxes? When class sizes go through the roof, and there's no money for basics, much less computers?"

          Low wage immigrants?? So you are against some legal immigrants as well?? There are many schools in and around the LA area that have a low tax base, and they are predominately citizen neighborhoods. This is exactly where the Title I money goes. Class sizes, I never had illiterate illegal immigrants in my upper division classes, so the class size increase was not due to illegal immigration! Class sizes have not increased by a considerable amount over the past few years, at least where I've been and observed....

          "When American children are short-changed because the teacher has to spend most of her time trying to help children who have never been to school in their homelands, have been traumatized by poverty or war, or simply can't speak English?"

          Quite the contrary dear friend, the students that are short-changed are the immigrant. MANY teachers don't know how to teach them, or they DON'T want to for prejudice or other reasons. I can't begin to tell how many times I've heard something along the lines of, "I'm not wasting my time on them, they shouldn't be here in the first place." Very outrageous and disgusting, to say the least. So, what then, act like they don't exist??

          That is a myth. NONE of my upper division classes have ever had any illegal immigrant that couldn't speak English. Ever. All of my CP/AP courses were 95% citizen, and the others were students who were brought here as infants and toddlers and have a complete grasp of English and are some of the BRIGHTEST students.

          As for remedial classes, it all goes down to good teachers. With SDAIE techniques and sheltered content instruction it is not very difficult to reach these students. Teachers know which students may have difficulty with instruction. All it takes is for a teacher to prepare BEFORE class, adjust their curriculum for the student, and present.........This is done many times for Special Ed students I've had before. I have never "short-changed" an American student, how?? If I present my lesson, use SDAIE techniques for English learners, and the students comprehend the information, who is "short-changed?" Based on the quality of the homework turned in, my test scores, and their presentations, I've never had a case where a U.S. citizen failed because of the person next to him/her. Doesn't happen. But, I will tell you that I've had U.S. Citizen students fail for a variety of other reasons..................all having nothing to do with immigration!

          "Or when we senior citizens decide not to pay more taxes because we no longer have kids in the schools?"

          What does this mean?? Senior citizens pay taxes??


          "As for not needing to deport illegal aliens, ask the Pakistani community in New York how many have left homes, jobs, businesses to seek asylum in Canada or return home because they feared deportation."

          Pakistani?? Would that have anything to do with the war on terror!!?

          "Or look at what happened when immigration arrested five illegals near the Mexcian consulate in a city in California--suddenly all the illegals were afraid to go to work, go to school, etc."

          I remember that incident, and the illegal immigrants were not afraid to go to work or school. They were afraid to go the consulate.
          AND WHAT HAPPENED ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT, THE BORDER PATROL WAS INSTRUCTED NOT TO DO THAT EVER AGAIN. That is against the law!! The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that "roving patrols" need specific evidence that someone is illegal, which can't be that the person looks Hispanic, doesn't speak English or refuses to make eye contact, according to an article on this situation.

          "It doesn't take much--what's missing is the commitment by government. And even that seems to be getting stronger."

          Yes it does take much. Why does everybody keep saying the government is "getting stronger." How?? By allowing illegal immigrants in state tuition, drivers licenses, an Id card that will allow them bank accounts, the Supreme court has ruled they're allowed education, etc.??? Acelaw has posted numerous articles, in a failed attempt to make some sort of point, about how illegal immigrants may even be allowed to buy houses and such.

          Aliba, When is our government going to address this??? When??

          You seem like the others, complain with no idea of reality.............

          WHY HAVEN'T ANY POTENTIAL GOVERNORS IN CALIFORNIA SAY THEY WILL ORDER MASSIVE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT DEPORTATIONS???? If government is supposedly "getting stronger" why then hasn't the president or a potential CA governor said this???

          Comment


          • #35
            aliba, very interesting, but what does that have to do with illegal immigration!?


            "By the way, forgot to mention that my niece in Houston was being kept in a largely-Hispanic class because they needed someone who spoke English. The teacher wouldn't even test her for advanced placement because of this."

            Are you saying the teacher didn't speak English, or that the student was used as some sort of interpreter for the teacher?? Was this some sort of ESL class?? Is your niece an immigrant?

            First, when you say Hispanics, do you mean illegal immigrants??

            Second, do you blame the teacher and school for this, or her classmates??? Put blame where it deserves. That sounds to me like a misguided teacher, and she is to blame for this, not the students...........


            "The point: the earlier teacher didn't have the best interests of ALL her students at heart, just the "politically correct" necessity of having an English-speaker to help the Hispanic students learn English."

            I agree with that point!! But I also fail to see what illegal immigration has to do with this particular situation?? Teachers do not always have the best interest of the students at heart; I agree with that 100%. This is a situation of a bad teacher not doing what is best for your niece.

            Was it the students in the class who kept her in the class??

            Was it the students who didn't test her for AP??

            NO, of course not, it was the teacher, who deserves the blame for this...........again, put blame where it needs to be..

            Comment


            • #36
              It's a safe bet that many of her classmates were immigrants or illegal aliens, not native born Hispanics who wanted to learn Spanish.

              That "bad teacher" is doing what the school system requires--playing the game of accommodating Hispanics, particuarly with regard to immigration. And who pushes for bilingual education, anyway? Immigrant and illegal alien parents, who want to maintain their native culture, ethnic advocates, and bilingual education teachers (often members of the ethnic group). Boards of Education and Principals who want to avoid unpleasantness learn what they have to do--grease the squeaky wheel. The fact of the students being in the school and there needing to be a target number of nonHispanics in the class worked against the best interests of my niece.

              This is the same school system, mind you, that was recently shown to have falsified their records on dropouts to make it appear they had virtually none. Supposedly, they actually encouraged students to leave school, but classified it as being in the GED program or something else. Its then-head is now head of the federal Dept. of Education.

              Comment


              • #37
                aliba, I share many of the same concerns as you do. I am just tired of our government's inaction, one way or another.

                "It's a safe bet that many of her classmates were immigrants or illegal aliens, not native born Hispanics who wanted to learn Spanish."

                Who wanted to learn Spanish?? Was this an ESL or Spanish class?? You know what, it dosn't really matter.....


                "That "bad teacher" is doing what the school system requires--playing the game of accommodating Hispanics, particuarly with regard to immigration."

                Then it is the school policy to blame as well.

                "And who pushes for bilingual education, anyway?"

                People who know that it is the best way to educate English learners. Immersion DOES NOT work as well, or even at all.

                "Immigrant and illegal alien parents, who want to maintain their native culture, ethnic advocates, and bilingual education teachers (often members of the ethnic group)."

                Not so, many advocates are caucasian. Bilingual education doesn't "maintain" culture. How so?? Culture is more than language. What is being taught is curriculum.....



                "Boards of Education and Principals who want to avoid unpleasantness learn what they have to do--grease the squeaky wheel. The fact of the students being in the school and there needing to be a target number of nonHispanics in the class worked against the best interests of my niece."

                If I believe what you say, sounds like what happened to your niece is a direct result of the SCHOOL and not the other students!


                "This is the same school system, mind you, that was recently shown to have falsified their records on dropouts to make it appear they had virtually none. Supposedly, they actually encouraged students to leave school, but classified it as being in the GED program or something else. Its then-head is now head of the federal Dept. of Education."

                Based on what you state about this Houston school and whatnot, I would say that they have more important things to address than illegal immigration. Sounds like a bad school and or district altogether, with illegal immigration having nothing to do with it.


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