Getting married the loophole way !

Hi all....

I have a series of problems that all relate to one thing, and they relate to the rules and stipulations that don't come with marriage but by getting a marriage visa.

I am from England and I met my fiance who is American via the internet, I have been over to stay with her on 3 occasions and each time I stayed for 90 days. On my last trip over I proposed to her, and we thought July 19th would be an ideal date to tie the knot.

We made enquiries as to how we go about this and it seemed feasible at the time. She sent off for the application forms just before I left.

When she got the form, it said they require a letter of intent from me to marry her, which I wrote and posted weeks ago from England, it took a long time getting to her. I called the Embassy over here and found that the application can take 3 months to be processed in America (which we already knew), and up to 12 weeks after that for my interview in London to be arranged.

Unfortunately this isn't leaving us with much of a time frame to get married on Jily 19th, so we have been looking at alternatives, the loop hole way so to speak. We have been told second hand that we can marry without the visa, and then go to immigration after the wedding, and I get to stay for ever, and work etc....

However, I have been told that when you do it this way, you have to stay in America for a year, and you cannot return home no matter what. I have also been told that the rule is if you leave the USA for more than a year you can't get back in. Which is it ?

So if we do it the loophole way, can I get to stay ? Will I need an attorney ? And how much do we have to pay immigration ?

We really want to get married in July, my fiance has bought the dress, her bridesmaids have bought their dresses too, the church has been booked, the invites are out, and the glasses have been engraved with the date on too.

So if anyone can help me out with my questions I would be very gratefull, and those that can, can have invitations to the wedding of the year!

Thanks.

Steven.

Hi all....

I have a series of problems that all relate to one thing, and they relate to the rules and stipulations that don't come with marriage but by getting a marriage visa.

I am from England and I met my fiance who is American via the internet, I have been over to stay with her on 3 occasions and each time I stayed for 90 days. On my last trip over I proposed to her, and we thought July 19th would be an ideal date to tie the knot.

We made enquiries as to how we go about this and it seemed feasible at the time. She sent off for the application forms just before I left.

When she got the form, it said they require a letter of intent from me to marry her, which I wrote and posted weeks ago from England, it took a long time getting to her. I called the Embassy over here and found that the application can take 3 months to be processed in America (which we already knew), and up to 12 weeks after that for my interview in London to be arranged.

Unfortunately this isn't leaving us with much of a time frame to get married on Jily 19th, so we have been looking at alternatives, the loop hole way so to speak. We have been told second hand that we can marry without the visa, and then go to immigration after the wedding, and I get to stay for ever, and work etc....

However, I have been told that when you do it this way, you have to stay in America for a year, and you cannot return home no matter what. I have also been told that the rule is if you leave the USA for more than a year you can't get back in. Which is it ?

So if we do it the loophole way, can I get to stay ? Will I need an attorney ? And how much do we have to pay immigration ?

We really want to get married in July, my fiance has bought the dress, her bridesmaids have bought their dresses too, the church has been booked, the invites are out, and the glasses have been engraved with the date on too.

So if anyone can help me out with my questions I would be very gratefull, and those that can, can have invitations to the wedding of the year!

Thanks.

Steven.

The problem is: it's illegal to enter on a VWP with the intent to stay in the US.

You would be entering on a vwp since you're from england and they already know about your wedding plans since you have already applied for all the paperwork.

My best advice: don't do what you call the "loophole" way. You may have to change the invits and the glasses but that's a lot less hassle than getting deported when they find out you intended to get married when you entered.

Not to mention, the paperwork you file after getting married will ask you : "have you ever filed for a petition for this or any other alien before" you have to say yes and they will not like the answer "but the wedding was planned"

just be thankful you have been able to see your intended at all. many of us who's fiance/fiancee resides in a poor country are unable to even get a visting visa at all for fear they will not return.

so stop whining cuz you may have to postpone the wedding and be thankful for what you have. many here have also had to rearrange plans due to the slow ins processing of visa, and in my cases havent been able to see their love for a very long time.

so do it it the legal way and wait like the rest of us.

I understand it is difficult for you, but I am in a similar situation. I am from England too and my fiance filed for us in Dec 2002. We got the Notice of Receipt in Jan 03 so we're in for a long wait. We had planned a June wedding, but now, with the slow processing times of the Nebraska Office, it looks as though we won't be together until October, maybe later. My advice to you is to sit tight and do it the Legal way, It's tough yes, but it will be worth it in the long run. Don't jeopardize your relationship by cutting corners, it will only lead to a lot of heartache...Good luck to you!

Thanks for your help guys, but I have a question for Marie. What is the VWP ?

If we where going to do it the loophole way I was intending to return on a pilot waiver.

This brings up another question...Am I allowed to return on a pilot waiver if the application for the marriage visa is being processed ?

Visa Waiver Program = Visa Waiver PILOT Program

There are basically the same thing with the same rights.

Once you get married and file for AOS you should file for AP (Advance Parole) too. This is a document which gives you reentry permit.

But beware, when you overstayed your visa for more than 180 days this is no good and you will have to wait till the AOS approval. Also, an INS officer can deny you entry at any given time no matter what documents you have.

I understand you want to get married under this program but I must warn you like the others, it might be tricky. Also have you thought about the 30/60 day rule which could apply to you?



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What is the AOS thing you are talking about and what is the 30/60 day rule ? I am aware of the 90 day rule window of having to get married once I return (after the paper work has gone through).

I think Marie said earlier it would be difficult to try to come back in on a waiver with the intent to get married, if the marriage visa is in the process. Well it isn't yet, me and my fiance are discussing the options, we said if we decide to go the loophole way then we wouldn't be applying for the marriage visa, and just getting married on my next trip over.

The last time I came over the guy at customs was giving me the third degree about coming over twice before and staying for 90 days. I said I was only staying with a friend. I am also worried about trying to get in next time I go over, can they deny me access into the country becasue I have been over three times already and stayed for 90 days and not been working ?

"Adjustment Of Status" form I-485, one of the forms that you have to file once you are married. Even though I married on VWP, I recommend you do not use the "loophole".

I gather from your description that what your gf has filed is an I-129 -- fiance petition, meaning that you will have a consular interview in AMEMB in London, and then come here to get married (hopefully in July).

Believe it or not, it is actually faster to complete a fiance process than a spouse petition in consular processing. This is because the fiancee process gives the embassy only 120 days from the date of INS approval of the petition in which to schedule your interview, and if they approve you, to give you your visa. If your fiancee were to travel to England to marry you there, that would cancel out the fiance petition. She could do an I-130 petition for spouse, but the INS processing time is about the same (depending on where she lives, it can be 3-9 months). But, once the petition is transferred to the Department of State, there is no time limit on DOS to schedule and complete the consular process for a spouse. This is weird but true.

As others have mentioned, it would not be wise to try to come back here as a visitor on your VWP -- you WILL be asked your intentions in coming to US, and if you lie saying you are only visiting, you will be inadmissible for a green card, unless you get a waiver. The waiver requires "extreme hardship" to your spouse, which is almost impossible in new marriages (unless your spouse has some horrible illness for which she could not get medical care in your home country). Plus, there is a ton of evidence stacked against you regarding your plans to marry. So, not a wise idea to try to come in as a visitor in order to have the wedding in July as planned.

Good luck.

30/60 day rule

When you come into the US uder any kind of visa except a fianceevisa and you get married within 30days of entry it is automatically presumed that you had the intention of getting married and thus falsely using your visa. Nothing you say can prevent this.

If you get married between 30 and 60 days they might start an investigation if there is evidence of intent.

If the marriage occurs after 60 days it is presumed in good faith although they are still allowed the investigate.

You already made you intentions clear about getting married by applying for the fiancee visa therefore if you get married without it your AOS will most likely be dinied and you will be deported.



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when someone is married to a USC, it is not important whether he/she had pre-existing immigrant intent at the time of entry to US as a non-immigrant -- Matter of Cavazos. In other words if ALL you do is come here with the intent to get married on a visitor visa or VWP, you can still get your Adjustment of Status by marriage to a USC. HOWEVER, if you make any FALSE statement regarding your intentions at the POE, then you have committed fraud and are inadmissible per 212(a)(6)(C)(i). This requires a waiver, which as I said is really hard to get.

(You see the difference between holding an intention in your head, versus making false statements about your intention).

It is remotely possible (emphasis on REMOTELY!) that someone like Steven could board an airplane and upon landing at POE truthfully tell the INS inspector that he has been waiting for his fiancee visa to be approved, and that he is desperate because the wedding has been set for July, etc, in otherwords truthfully disclosing his intentions to marry -- and a really really nice officer might just let him in. (OK, are you done laughing now?) He will still have to convince the INS adjudicators of his adjustment application that this is what happened, but if he does not lie, then he has not committed fraud and is not barred from adjusting.

this is all a technical point to illustrate the difference between unspoken intention and actual misrepresentation (either in an interview or on a customs declaration). Silence is golden -- it just rarely ( and I mean rarely!!) turns out this way.

so, the rules of thumb re 30-60-90 days are not really that simple.

i bring this up, because every once in awhile, i have seen cases with similar fact patterns -- applicant married to USC, had preconceived intent, but no fraud, adjustment granted.

BUT Steven, I still say sit tight, and deal with the likelihood that you will be having your wedding later than planned.

Agreed


I just wanted to point out that if he decides to get married while visiting under the VWP and a fianceevisa pending the chances of AOS approval are pretty slim as the intentions of marriage are established and the VWP is not designed for marriage and you would have to prove that the marriage are a 'spur of the moment'.

IF he decides to get married he better wwaits for 60 days after entry, before this period I don't see how he could get approved.

Although of course, like you said, there are cases which prove the exact opposite.

Waiting for the fiancee visa will be his best option

Thanks for your help huys....much appreciated.

If my fiance files for the fiance visa, do I have to remain in England untill it is ready ? Or can I still go back over there and visit while we are waiting for it all to go through ?

The last time I went over and I got the third degree at the port of entry, I didn't say she was my girlfriend, incase they did get suspicious of a marriage.

If I can return while we are waiting for the marriage visa, can I go back under a pilot waiver ? Just so we can be together ? Or do I have to apply for some other kind of visa in order to do that ?

Thanks.

If I can return while we are waiting for the marriage visa, can I go back under a pilot waiver ? Just so we can be together ? Or do I have to apply for some other kind of visa in order to do that ?

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What I really mean is: Can we be together, not marry, just untill the paper work has all gone through, and then marry ?

Thanks.