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What sort of proof would be required to prevail on a waiver of the I751 based upon marriage?

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  • Still Learning
    replied
    4now, Sammy DOES have such a way of helping people, doesn't he? Patience is NOT one of my virtues so I need to be reminded of all that you said too.

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  • 4now
    replied
    Sammy I gotta tell u that ur last response here to Swiss even though it is in a technical format, it is equally as eloquent and beautiful as the poem of hope that Julie offered Swiss.

    You have been kind, courteous and never lost your patience. Showing the rest of us myself included they we need to be more tolerant, sensitive and have patience. And because you handled things in a professional manner without negative emotion. look at all the useful information everyone received again.
    Sincerely Keep up the good work for everyone's sake on the board here.

    Leave a comment:


  • SAMMY
    replied
    Swissnut:

    I am fully aware of matrimonial laws of Michigan. Yes, you are correct that Michigan is a 'no fault' state for divorce, which means a person [plaintiff] doesn't need to prove or plead anything in order to get a divorce. Instead, s/he just needs to state that marriage has broken down, and there is possibilities to get back together with spouse. However, they still need to wait for 60 days to get the divorce after filing the divorce-complaint.

    Nevertheless, it is very important for you to know that even though Michigan is a 'no-fault' state for divorce, other grounds like 'Adultery' and 'Mental Cruelty' do play very important role when it comes to distribution of 'marital property' or 'spousal alimony'. That means-you still have an opportunity to include these claims if there are any issues of 'spousal alimony' and 'distribution of marital properties' are involved in your marriage.

    And then, when you will receive the divorce decree, it would contain all those other claims too in order to prove to BCIS that your husband did in fact abuse you mentally and that he was indeed involved in adultery, which is itself a ground for deportation.

    And, it is also very important for you to know that even though Michigan is a 'no-fault' state for divorce, you are allowed to file annulment under any ground of annulment if you think you can prove it. To get an annulment in your situation would be very hard because your marriage is very long, and it did consumated. But, you still have a shot for it under the ground that he married to you for the sole purpose of gaining immigration status, but you do need some kind of solid proof, otherwise judge will never annul the marriage.

    If you need to find any attorney either immigration or matrimonial one in your area or any where in the United States, you can visit -Martindale.com, to get the name and number of attorneys in any fields of laws. There are 800 matrimonial attorneys in your state.

    Before I go, I just want to express my opinion that you still have an opportunity to get out of the hook for the financial responsibilities for your husband thru withdrawing your Jointly filed I-751 and you can also write to BCIS that you believe your husband married you for green card only. That is. And, file for divorce and then move on. Time is the essence here, and I think you are wasting the time because it would be too late when you will be ready to do something to protect your interests. You don't need to find out or worry whether your husband would be deported or not, or whether or not he would prevail on waiver on I-751, or whether or not he would be able to get immigration status thru his mistress, or whether or not he would need to go back to his country to start all over, or what kind of documents would he need to file waiver application, any other concerns, because if you will not move on then it means you are still holding some feeling for him. You have to let it go. Choices are on you- Do you want to think about this problems all the time and let him to manipulate you indirect way, or have a new life with fresh start so you can be happy. Didn't you see where did you end up because of yr husband's acts, I meant you are seeing a psychologist because of your depression and anxiety problems, which are proximate cause of your husband's acts.

    The most important thing is here that you need to look out for your interests only now, which means you need to figure it out how you can get rid of your financial responsibilities towards yr husband as fast as. If you won't move fast to withdraw I-751, or if you won't write to BCIS about your marriage and hided-intention of yr hubby, you will be stuck with this problem for a very long time, whether you will like it or not. Right now, without paying any money on divorce case or immigration concerns, you can get rid of everything. The truth is yr husband took the advantage of your kindness and vulnerabilities. You need to stand-up for yourself. Let him go, and don't worry about him anymore. BCIS won't contact you OR you won't be responsible for anything for yr husband once jointly filed I-751 is withdrawn. I am not saying that you did not go thru rough time in yr marriage with yr husband, but then everyone goes thru some kind of problems or abuses in their marriages, little or more. I know it hurts, but we should learn to be move-on, otherwise only hurts and miseries would left. I hope you will understand it. I really tried to help you, and sincerly wish you good luck, since you are seemed a kind and nice lady. Take care.

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  • swissnut
    replied
    Sammy:

    Thank you.

    ou wrote "[3] File for annulment under fraud ground that he married to you to gain solely immigration benefit, and in the alternate ask for divorce on the ground of mental cruelty since you in fact are being mentally disturbed because of what he has been doing to you so far. But, you need to document this mental abuse with hospital or psychologist so that you could have prove that you are indeed mentally disturbed. In addition, you may also ask divorce on adultery if you have some kind of solid proof and if ever able to get divorce on adultery ground then he would be subject to deportation under immigration law, but you need to have solid proof of him having I-N-T-E-R-C-O-U-R-S-E with another woman.
    "
    I am in the care of psychologist and have been since October 2002...my state of depression and anxiety can be well document through my doctors.

    I am in a no fault state - so grounds will not be requested.

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  • Kudris
    replied
    .

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  • Kudris
    replied
    Swissnut; the alien can self-petition if she can conviencingly present the case
    or proof the frank nature of the initial marriage. The risk of being not adjusted and removed are high and more likely. At the very least there are going to be a lot of hurdles if fraud and in the case of fault marriage breakage such as adultery. Buttom line, yes it is possible but will take a long time if it isn't closed administratively! Good luck!

    [This message was edited by Kudris on October 15, 2003 at 02:07 AM.]

    Leave a comment:


  • SAMMY
    replied
    Swissnut:

    I think it is very important for you to know that a person can arrange or fabricate all the documents which are required for battered spouse-waiver very easily WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF USC-SPOUSE. Even the police reports if it is only for documented purpose instead of pressing charge against you, courts order like restraining order withour your knowledge or without serving any court-paper to you, hospital records, psychological records, etc...So, there is not a single documents that your husband can not fabricate without your knowledge. I have seen so many cases in my life, wherein alien-spouses were the abuser in the marriage and USC-Spouses were the battered-one, and USC-Spouse even had restraining orders from court, police reports, hospital treatments because of physical and mental abuses caused by alien-spouses, but despite of opposite situation, alien-spouses were able to fabricate all these documents for the sake of green card without the knowledge of USC-spouses from another area than where they live. As you know if alien-spouses will find themselves without green card, they would do anything to preserve their immigration status, wrong or right. Nobody would just give-up so easily on green card. So, don't assume that your husband can not arrange or fabricate those documents without your knowledge. It might be impossible for you to think to have those documents without yr knowledge, but when he will go to any attorney for help, then crook attorneys would advise him this route for the sake of their fees on how to get green card so easily thru fabricating all these situations. It's happennig everyday in America.

    Second, as I already mentioned in the past on some other threads that there is no guarantee that I-751 would be approved under waiver provisions, instead it is very hard to get approval on waiver provisions because then INS would need to determine why they should grant permanent residency to an alien when an alien is no longer in marital relationship with USC-spouse, and as you know that alien-spouse got his/her conditional status because of marital stutus with USC-Spouse. I know it's sound very easy and simple that as long as alien-spouse can prove that s/he was entered in bonafide marriage with USC-spouse, then a condition would definately be removed. But, it is not that easy and simple, belive me, otherwise nobody needs to worry anything because they all would be able to remove condition without the help of USC-spouse, like get divorce from their USC-spouses and then file under waiver provisions. Instead, INS would scrutinze their situations on waiver-cases in order to find out who is in fault for fallen marriage, what kind of hardship an alien would face if s/he is deported and all other kind of scenarios, even though those were not written specifically anywhere in laws, but it is written in fine print of law, which is called: "Whatever situations would deem just to district director in order to determine the situation on alien". But, trust me it won't be that easy as most of the people think over here.

    As far as yr husband's case is concerned, he can get the whole record of his jointly filed I-751 from BCIS, and then he would have all the documents that he filed for the consideration of removing condition on his conditional status. That's all the documents he needs to prove the bonafidea of marriage under waiver provision. In addition, divorce decree, or proof that you battered him during the marriage that he can arrange very easily without your knowledge. Nobody would contact you to find out whether it is true or not.

    If your husband would be the one who would be under investigation, then only his attorney can follow up, and not your attorney. Your attorney can not follow on any investigation if you would not be the suspect in any fraud. Just because you are one of the signed party on I-751, it doesn't mean that you have the right to follow up on govt investigation. I believe you are thinking too many things and making your situation more complicated. All you need to do is-

    [1] Write to BCIS that you want to withdraw jointly filed I-751, and there was never a happily marriage from beginning because your husband forced you to file I-130 and to attend interview. Your husband and you are living apart for a long time, and there is no prospectus of reconcilation between both of you. If you do that, then it would be so hard for INS to believe on his submitted documents even though he would millions of documents to prove the bonafidea of marriage. They must then take his personal interview face to face.

    [2]Inform them that you were forced to sign joint I-751 under threat.

    [3] File for annulment under fraud ground that he married to you to gain solely immigration benefit, and in the alternate ask for divorce on the ground of mental cruelty since you in fact are being mentally disturbed because of what he has been doing to you so far. But, you need to document this mental abuse with hospital or psychologist so that you could have prove that you are indeed mentally disturbed. In addition, you may also ask divorce on adultery if you have some kind of solid proof and if ever able to get divorce on adultery ground then he would be subject to deportation under immigration law, but you need to have solid proof of him having I-N-T-E-R-C-O-U-R-S-E with another woman.

    That's all you need to do, and then move on with your life. Don't waste your time, money, efforts and energy for this guy, who is not worth at all. You can do better without him, I knew this. More you wait, more questions you ask, more information you dig, nowhere you will get, trust me. Can you able to spend couple of thousands dollors on attorneys just to follow-up investigation for you. You don't need to worry what would happen to your husband after you withdraw jointly filed I-751. As well, don't worry how he would be able to prove waiver application without you. It would be his problem, so let him deal with it. Don't worry that it is yr responsibilities just because you had filed I-130,or I-864, or I-751 jointly, because once you withdraw I-751, You will be out of the hook from all these filed applications, and BCIS won't even write or question you anything ever. You will be then at same place where you were in the beginning before filing any kind of immigration application for him. You will be out of the hook forever and will be clean handed for any kind of obligations or liablities. So, it is upto you whether you are serious or you just only need information. If you are serious and ready to move-on, then do something before it's too late. With due respect, I am your side, but if you would ask all those questions that won't do any good in yr case, it would be waste of time for you especially when you need to focus on yr real interests. Good luck to you.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4now
    replied
    SWISS > ONE MORE THING FOR YOUR OWN SAKE DO NOT BUG NAG OR BE PESISTANT LIKE YOU CAN BE WITH BCIS AFTER YOU FILE PAPERS the last thing you want is for whoever is handling your case to think that you are some kind of obsessive and nagging nut case. Just handle it in a professional manner by waiting to hear from them. just a thought

    uh my phone's ringing.. sorry it was just my friends Pinky and the Brain. Pinky wanted to know what we were going to do tommorow Swiss

    Leave a comment:


  • 4now
    replied
    SWISS WHAT PART of WITHDRAW I-751 not adjudicated do you not understand? The I-751 has not been adjudicated (approved) yet. Withdraw it to get yourself off the hook for the affidavit of support &file for nofault divorce to get this man out of your life. Forget the attorney, save the money. Like I told you 2 weeks ago.

    Here is the recipe again.

    INGREDIENTS
    Write up everything, timeframes, all evidence that you have implicating fraud and deception.
    your phone number blah blah All current information about him . where he is living now , Alien # addresses, phone numbers. Mistress name and address everything you know about that relationship and how it broke up your marriage. How he tricked you into taking your money blah blah. Request to withdraw the joint I-751 and request sponsership withdrawn upon denial of I751 joint. (letter will suffice) Sign and notarize all letters. Also if you have a copy of the Notice of Action sent to him. be sure to enclose that with your correspondence.

    Next:
    Stir and Shake:
    Physically take it to your local BCIS office crimes/investigations unit. Make 2 copies. Ask them to copy Nebraska SERvice Center. CYA and you also send Neb Ser Center the packet by express mail with signature, and note on the receipt what the content is. (YOu can check when it was signed and received on the internet by receipt.

    Bake at N400 degrees:

    Baking time depends. It may take 2 years to bake. maybe less. Be patient. In the meantime , dont hold your breath for them to contact you
    And by all means do no think this is a priority for them. It IS NOT!! YOu may not hear anything for 1 year. But not to worry cuz you have covered all the bases for your end. When your divorce is final. Send them a copy of that also in case the appplication is not yet withdrawn by them.

    NOw Read your last paragraph again.
    "left joint I751 in place and tried for the fraud issue" This would be a dangerous manipulative case of Inquiring MInds Want to Know scenario. And guess what. you could be the very one getting screwed if you choose this path because there are no guarantees. The only guarantee you have is that you can withdraw the I751 and solve all of your dilemma. The clock is ticking... everyday you dont do something is a day closer for him that the I751 could get adjudicated.

    Leave a comment:


  • swissnut
    replied
    Sammy:
    Naturally, I should have been more clear as I was asking about TWO DIFFERENT SCENARIOS:

    !. was if I withdrew the I751 what is the type of evidence which would be required by BCIS to award the GC if my husband went for BONA FIDE marriage waiver. Bcz in my husband's case, he would not qualify for hardship, nor could he come up with battered spouse either, unless he fabricates all that he would need like police reports and such, There is no such evidence of battery or abuse. and I think it would be difficult for him to make that evidence up.

    So my question was what kind of evidence would BCIS want to see in order for my husband to be successful for legit marriage waiver. Look, if he just goes in there and says I should get a waiver because I did love my wife, here I married her, here is where I lived, I was married to my wife, here are my tax retuns( joint) and here are some pictures from my wedding and a couple of letters addressed to him at our house, is that sufficient to show it was a legitimate marriage< Anyone can get that kind of evidence, even if it was fraud marriage. Now, I know there are things as mail order brides and such that pass money to marry, and never live with the USC spouse, and that is clearly fraud, but there are other types of marriage fraud too. Mine is one of those situations, and I wondered what BCIS would ask to see in order to determine if it was a real marriage. Those things Aguila listed are helpful, but they DONT RULE out a situation like in my case. My husband did some very peculiar things which brought me to understand that his intent from the beginning was not sincere. Would BCIS ask about that if I could show them the timing of his activities and how the day after the petition was signed he left?

    Now, specifically, with regard to the assistance of an attorney, I think I addressed it already, but I was thinking of an attorney only if I filed report against him, left joint I751 in place and tried for the fraud issue. Then would it not be true that BCIS would look at the case and since the I751 was filed by me as well, wouldn't an attorney, representing my interests, be able to inquire as to the dispositon of the investigation?

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  • 4now
    replied
    Swiss If you filed 2002 tax return as a joint return, you cannot go back and amend it to Married filing seperately. You can only amend from MFS to a married filing joint return. oops he did it again.

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  • SAMMY
    replied
    Swissnut:

    Since you did not ask the evidences, which are required for JOINTLY filed I-751, instead you have asked for the evidences that alien would need to prevail with WAIVER on I-751. So, I would say-it would depend on what kind of waiver is being filed by the alien, like battered spouse or others. Each waiver has its own evidences requirement. But, one fact is certain that alien must need to prove that s/he was married in good faith with USC spouse in addition to waiver evidences like divorce decree, or proof of battered situation, any other documents. So, I can not advise you what evidences an alien would need in order to prevail for waiver situation, because- I think you also don't know yet which one your husband would choose if he would go thru waiver situaiton, right?

    In any situation, it is not your problem anymore once you will withdraw jointly filed I-751, so you should not waste your energy, time and efforts for him. Let him figure it out how he would be legal here. It would be his problem then to find out all those evidences, and not you. And, nobody would contact you ever, I meant BCIS won't contact you if your husband choose to file any waiver even battered-spouse one.

    BCIS doesn't contact USC spouse to find out whether or not they have battered aliens, instead they will just verify the accuracy of documents and would grant them full residency under waiver provision even though it is not true. As you know people do fabricate those documents and USC spouse won't even know because BCIS never ask them. And your husband will do the same because he won't just give-up his dream so easily, and anyhow, he has no other choice except to make you worst person in the eyes of immigration in order to get green card. You will never get the opportunity to refute or to do anything because nobody will contact you to find out exactly what happened. And you can not even write to BCIS when you don't even know what is going on or if they won't ask anything from you. Moreover, you or your attorney can not even request his file from immigration without your husband's permission, so obviously you won't have any other way to find out what is going on, or what he is doing against you. The only opportunity you have is- right now before I-751 is adjudicated, after that you can not call or do anything against him unless you have solid proof of some kind of fraud. Hearsays can not be used. Good luck.

    Leave a comment:


  • swissnut
    replied
    Aguila;

    In my husband's case I doubt that he could get affidavits from anyone who knew us at our marriage, other than his own family (who I think would not be consdiered as powerful as a stranger, since they are his relatives) as far as friends are concnerned, everyone who attended our marriage or knew us before we were married, now believes that he did not enter for the right reasons. Now he could ask his Mistress, I suppose, but we did not meet her until after we were married, and she too would not be a credible source.

    Yes, we have 2 yrs tax returns, but I am considering filing an ammeded 2002 tax return because when he came back in January 2003, to supposedly repair our marriage,. he asked that we file togehr (another con up his sleeve). Well the truth is that I sould have filed thaT RETUIRN AS as Married but filing separately, since my husband did not cOntribute his earnings and he benefitted from a huge tax credit which belonged to me.

    The part about proving he did live with me is the part which is of greatest concern. I. My husband moved out during the 2 yrs from the date he gained "conditional status"...and even now that he has an apartment, he still opened a bank account with his checks showing our home address long after he was already living in his own place. He still has his car registered (title) and auto insurance to our home address, long after he has been gone, he still has his driver's license in our home address, and I fear this is because he wants to show BCIS that he is still with me. This I don't think is right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aguila
    replied
    Swissnut:

    All the items that I mentioned are not a requirement, but if your husband has them all most likely he would get his permanent green card.
    In regards to the lease, if there is none, is just to prove that he live with you, he can prove that with any other documentation that show his address, such as bank statements etc.
    LIFE/HEALTH INSURANCE help but they can deny you base that you did not have a bona fide marriage because you did not have policy.
    It is very ease to get affidavits, I doubt that he won't be able to get them.
    INCOME TAX you did not comment , so I guess he has them and this are THE MOST IMPORTANT!

    Leave a comment:


  • swissnut
    replied
    Aguila:

    Ahh, yes, you did answer this question for Steel, and I had not noticed:

    You wrote, but I have questions alongside them, if you don't mind!!!!:
    Documents you should take include but are not limited to:

    COPIES OF:

    -LEASE UNDER BOTH NAMES - what if there is no lease - and house for period of marriage was in USC spouse name only?

    -UTILIY BILLS THAT CAME UNDER BOTH NAMES AND YOUR NAME TO PROVE THAT YOU LIVE AT YOUR ADDRESS WITH YOUR USC SPOUSE.- What if Utility bills were is USC spouse name only, paid by USC spouse only and Alien is not living with USC spouse?

    -ANY AIRLINE TICKETS OR HOTEL STAYS THAT HAVE BOTH OF YOUR NAMES AT ANY VACATION - What if there are no ariline tix or vacations taken with USC spouse during 2 yr period?

    -BANK STATEMENTS WITH BOTH OF YOUR NAMES

    -CAR INSURANCE UNDER BOTH OF ANY IF APPLICABLE

    -LIFE INSURANCE SHOWING USC SPOUSE AS BENEFICIARY IF APPLICABLE What if there was no life insurance with spouse listed or for alien?

    -CHILD FROM THE MARRIAGE BIRTH CERTIFICATES - no children either

    -AFFIDAVITS FROM AT LEAST 2 PEOPLE STATING THAT YOU LIVED WITH YOUR USC SPOUSE FROM SO AND TO SO AND SO, ETC, THEY MUST BE NOTARIZED.- What if alien cannot provide 2 affidavits from 2 people?

    -PICTURES SPECIALLY THOSE AFTER YOU GOT YOUR CONDITIONAL GREEN CARD - what if there are no photos with USC spouse after marriage other than wedding pics?

    -EVERY INCOME TAX RETURN YOU HAVE FILED JOINTLY
    THIS IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT

    -CORRESPONDENCE THAT CAME UNDER BOTH OF YOUR NAMES SUCH AS CHRISTMAS CARDS, MAGAZINES, CATALOGUES, ETC.

    -COPY OF YOUR MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE

    That is what I remember so far, but make you sure you get all this documents before you leave.

    Leave a comment:

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